[taktik]

To enjoy music and to have fun doing so?

This is the consumer's goal, not the reviewer's whose job is to do an objective analysis of the headphones and to enlighten the consumer's choice.

10dB more bass than what?

10 dB more bass than the target curve, which is supposed to be the aim in order to reproduce the music like the musician recorded it.

 

[TSAVJason]

I have a question. If Tyll or Jude said a particular headphone measured badly and when you listen to it, you find it incredible and very enjoyable. Would you walk away from the headphone because they gave it bad reviews or measured badly?

I guess my struggle is, go hear it. If you like it and you think it's worth it, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it. Clearly as far as your go to guys there is a discrepancy in the measurements between these guys and it would be cool if they landed on a specific procedure to measure in similar conditions so that these kinds of issues are mostly mitigated but they are not the final word, your ears are.

I admit I can't tolerate anything Bose. What if I tell you my listening skills and measurements are far superior to theirs. You wouldn't buy the Bose if you like them even though I say they totally suck in all ways, you would still go buy them

.....so why does this seem so life threatening as you guys talk about the different measurement results. It really isn't all that uncommon for two different testing facilities to come out with different findings.

 

[taktik]

I have a question. If Tyll or Jude said a particular headphone measured badly and when you listen to it, you find it incredible and very enjoying. Would you walk away from the headphone because they gave it bad reviews or measured badly?

It depends on what is bad. A huge distortion or a very slow driver is a problem for almost everybody. 10 db more bass, to keep this example, is an objective problem if you consider the respect due to the work of the musician and it has to be pointed out by a reviewer. Knowing that, some consumers will walk away and others will consider that this singularity is perfect for their taste. As I said it above, the job of a reviewer is to enlighten the choice, not to push or to slow down the consumers.

 

[greggf]

So equalization is immoral and should be illegal?

I run CDs and SACDs and therefore can't equalize my HD800S to compensate for bad recordings. The Z1R do the compensation for me.

It would have been nice if Tyll had given a civilized review of the Z1R instead of a snotty one, and said that the Z1R measures the way that it does so that it can bring pleasure to many, many people under a common circumstance: less than stellar recordings or "new-style" overly compressed pop.

 

[thatonenoob]

This is the consumer's goal, not the reviewer's whose job is to do an objective analysis of the headphones and to enlighten the consumer's choice.


10 dB more bass than the target curve, which is supposed to be the aim in order to reproduce the music like the musician recorded it.

So let me confirm here, you've not heard this headphone yet?

 

[Beagle]

I have a question. If Tyll or Jude said a particular headphone measured badly and when you listen to it, you find it incredible and very enjoying. Would you walk away from the headphone because they gave it bad reviews or measured badly?

Some here would.

This is the consumer's goal, not the reviewer's whose job is to do an objective analysis of the headphones and to enlighten the consumer's choice.

So a reviewer can have zero fun listening to a headphone and still recommend it?

 

[MacedonianHero]

True, not particularly sharp though (TH900). You could probably sit your coffee cup on it

Agreed. The treble on the TH-900 was significantly more "zingy" than what the measurements indicated and more fatiguing to my ears than the Z1Rs could ever be (which I actually find rather laid back).

 

[TSAVJason]

It depends on what is bad. A huge distortion or a very slow driver is a problem for almost everybody. 10 db more bass, to keep this example, is an objective problem if you consider the respect due to the work of the musician and it has to be pointed out by a reviewer. Knowing that, some consumers will walk away and others will consider that this singularity is perfect for their taste. As I said it above, the job of a reviewer is to enlighten the choice, not to push or to slow down the consumers.

Remember the question ....in this scenario you like them

 

[taktik]

Agreed. The treble on the TH-900 was significantly more "zingy" than what the measurements indicated and more fatiguing to my ears than the Z1Rs could ever be (which I actually find rather laid back).

The peaks of the TH900 are smaller, but located in the sibilance area. I agree that they are fatiguing and painful. Replace the stock pads by TH500RP or the first THX00 pads and you will have a smoother headphones with almost the same qualities. A peak at 10 kHz is much less problematic.

 

[MacedonianHero]

The peaks of the TH900 are smaller, but located in the sibilance area. I agree that they are fatiguing and painful. Replace the stock pads by TH500RP or the first THX00 pads and you will have a smoother headphones with almost the same qualities. A peak at 10 kHz is much less problematic.

I'm familiar with 6kHz peaks, but those measurements aren't the same as the HD800 (which can also be problematic). Agreed a 10kHz peak is far less problematic (as with the K812, which I enjoy quite a bit). That said, I'm not hearing much of a 10kHz peak on my Z1Rs (or the other 5 or 6 pairs I've heard since last October).

 

[daddyo1973]

Are you really buying 2k$ headphones because they are beautiful and luxurious ?

Of course not, being beautiful (good design) and luxurious (quality materials and great craftsmanship) was only part of the purchase equation for me. I bought them because they sound great AND they have a myriad of other traits that I find appealing. To me these are a total and complete package.

Have you had a chance to experience these firsthand?

 

[nordkapp]

Strong recommendation to really showcase the outstanding sonics of the Z1R.......Bluetech-The Black Horse...
It's available on Bandcamp.

 

[taktik]

I'm familiar with 6kHz peaks, but those measurements aren't the same as the HD800 (which can also be problematic). Agreed a 10kHz peak is far less problematic (as with the K812, which I enjoy quite a bit). That said, I'm not hearing much of a 10kHz peak on my Z1Rs (or the other 5 or 6 pairs I've heard since last October).

My feeling is that the peak of the HD800 is different, because it's really a peak. The TH900 has a range of frequencies a bit too high (6-9 kHz). Same for the HE-6. In both cases, a pads replacement solve the problem (ZMF Eikon pads for the HE-6).

 

[MacedonianHero]

My feeling is that the peak of the HD800 is different, because it's really a peak. The TH900 has a range of frequencies a bit too high (6-9 kHz). Same for the HE-6. In both cases, a pads replacement solve the problem (ZMF Eikon pads for the HE-6).

While I did find the HE-6 overly "bright" I didn't find them zingy like the TH900s.

 

[up late]

I'm familiar with 6kHz peaks, but those measurements aren't the same as the HD800 (which can also be problematic). Agreed a 10kHz peak is far less problematic (as with the K812, which I enjoy quite a bit). That said, I'm not hearing much of a 10kHz peak on my Z1Rs (or the other 5 or 6 pairs I've heard since last October).

the 10khz peak wasn't bothersome for me either. that said, the treble did seem to jump out at times, so i can relate to tyll's subjective criticism. i suspect that he is more treble sensitive than i am.