[pietcux]

On IFA 2015 the engineers from Beyerdynamic with whom I talked for more than an hour, said that the guy in the Hawaiian shirt always wants free samples, but he won't get them anymore because they disagree with his results anyways. So if he wants to diss them he shall at least pay for the cans. They won't change their well respected house sound because of him.

 

[jmills8]

On IFA 2015 the engineers from Beyerdynamic with whom I talked for more than an hour, said that the guy in the Hawaiian shirt always wants free samples, but he won't get them anymore because they disagree with his results anyways. So if he wants to diss them he shall at least pay for the cans. They won't change their well respected house sound because of him.

So if he praises their headphones they will throw free gear on his lap?

 

[Whitigir]

So if he praises their headphones they will throw free gear on his lap?

If I was any manufacturer, I would not give out free sample to whoever is only entitled to his own personal opinions and call it a review or critic to the public . Hell, even in English 101, you will have to dissect a problem in both ways, negative, and positive in the while supporting your point of view which eventually support and lead to a strong conclusion as of why, and what your article was about.

So when I see anyone doing such thing that any 3rd grader can do, I would not give out free sample...."oh I want apple candy, and only apple candy, why did you give me free Lemonade Candy ?"

 

[pietcux]

They where only against unfair treatment, that's all. And they found him arrogant.

 

[nanaholic]

So if he praises their headphones they will throw free gear on his lap?

Don't see how that is surprising because that's pretty much how every company works when it comes to handling PR, that's how we came to have disclaimers for some reviews so readers know where and how the gear come from in order to make the review seem more objective with less influence from the makers. Big companies like Apple is even known to keep a black list of what they consider "bad press", if you diss Apple products too much they won't give you access to pre-release review gear, which for a lot of IT sites means lost of traffic and thus revenue.

For a big company like Beyerdynamic it's unthinkable that they do not have gear to measure and pick up all the faults in wave sweeps and harmonic distortions that can be easily picked up by lesser equipment possessed by an individual, nor them not having the engineering ability to correct those faults which sometimes can even be correct by DIY mods - so the only conclusion that one can come to is - yes - Beyerdynamic does indeed tune their driver not for perfect, objectively accurate sound reproduction but is seasoning them with some "house flavour", and if Tyll's stance is to continuously criticise Beyer for that flavour, then I see Beyer's engineer's stances as being perfectly understandable. It's like if Beyerdynamic is making German sausages and Tyll is criticising them for not making French cuisine, then why bother talking? Because obviously they don't share common ground to have further communications.

 

[PCheung]

So if he praises their headphones they will throw free gear on his lap?

Vice versa, will he criticize the brand or the headphone cos he don't have it free?

 

[gto88]

Finally finished all posts, quite a few talks.
Let's keep listening Z1R and enjoy it.
BTW, I recently got iFi Pro iCan, it really shines Z1R.

 

[kuroihana]

That Tyll doesn't like Z1R is not such a big deal for me. After all, he doesn't like T1,K812,TH900,SE-MASTER1,etc, but absolutely those are excellent cans in respective categories.
What surprised me was that he made such a scathing review. From my observation, Tyll tends to avoid reviewing headphones he personally doesn't like, rather than making negative words. I don't know why he feels so mad about Z1R.

 

[Beagle]

the reason for the lateness of the review was due to him not being able to obtain a z1r for review from sony. he had been trying for some time.

Seriously?

 

[rnros]

Yes and I hope you understand I'm just discussing an interesting post and not challenging you or attempting to put you on the defensive. I'm a psychology major and a bit of a perception nerd in terms of interest so I can't help but interpret things through that lens. And for the record, the aeon is most certainly a headphone if I was financially able to I would purchase as it sounds very intriguing. Cheers.

OK, I'm back. Yes, wasn't sure since your opening comment had no relevance to my post:
"As for the Aeon suddenly sounding close to the Z1R for the user where previously it hadn't..."

No challenge or offense taken, not to worry, we are not adversaries in our pursuit of audio enjoyment. So, your question goes to whether or not I was able to evaluate the two headphones without 'novelty' bias. Fair question, but I would also add the opposite potential, being afflicted with 'familiarity' bias.

Well, I do have confidence in my ability to assess headphone performance without significant or dysfunctional bias, but that expressed confidence should mean very little to someone who doesn't actually know me. So for what it does contributes to your thought experiment: I actually did not use the Z1R for at least two weeks prior to my comparison, and maybe closer to three weeks due to schedule and travel issues. (Maybe we share some similarities.)

Again, neither headphone is perfect, many will have a strong preference for one over the other. My SQ comparison comments were therefore intentionally minimal and focused on salient characteristics. Plain fact is everyone is isolated by a subjective aural perception, additionally we are all different in our experience and expectation of live and recorded music. But we do try to bridge that separation with dialogue like this, so thank you for extending the discussion. It is enjoyable when it is rational and dispassionate. OK, maybe a little emotion is allowed, I did gush just a bit on my appreciation for both Sony and MrSpeakers in designing and bringing these great headphones to market... And also a bit on the beauty and quality construction of both headphones.

Bottom line, my brief comments amount to only one data point in the multitude. Many already exist, many more will follow. Looking forward to your forthcoming reviews. Should be a lot of fun for you, and an enjoyable read for us.

BTW: DAC/Amps used:
HiRes FLAC > COAX > Gungnir Multibit > Mjolnir2 (RFL6N3P-E) or Lyr1 (SYL6NS7GTB)

 

[rnros]

Seriously?

Honestly, my sense is that purchasing the headphones accomplishes two things, timely review and eliminating "conflict of interest."

 

[VandyMan]

That Tyll doesn't like Z1R is not such a big deal for me. After all, he doesn't like T1,K812,TH900,SE-MASTER1,etc, but absolutely those are excellent cans in respective categories.
What surprised me was that he made such a scathing review. From my observation, Tyll tends to avoid reviewing headphones he personally doesn't like, rather than making negative words. I don't know why he feels so mad about Z1R.

Maybe you should just stop reading his reviews rather than trying to proscribe what he writes? I happen to HATE all the headphones you listed except the TH900. My taste aligns with Tyll's for the most part, so I find his bad reviews as helpful as his raves. I don't read his review as angry at all. However, a little anger at a 2K plus headphone that disappoints seems justified to me.

A few people criticized the review because it will embarrass Sony and the designers. I want to read reviews from a reviewer who does not spare your feelings, Sony's feelings (?), or even the designer's feelings in order to tell us the truth as he hears it. He should be tactful, but I want his honest reaction. Tyll has proven once again that he is on the side of consumers. Good for him!

 

[VandyMan]

Honestly, my sense is that purchasing the headphones accomplishes two things, timely review and eliminating "conflict of interest."

I agree. He should buy the headphones. However, given the cost, it may well be that his site does not generate the revenue to make this possible. Also, it has always been Stereophiles policy to get review samples from manufactures, and Tyll is part of Stereophile.

 

[gelocks]

LOL!
Reading all of these replies... man.

I said it a few months ago, diminishing returns is a real thing!
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/t...e-from-ifa-2016.818846/page-277#post-13139517

Quoting myself:

Take into consideration that Sig DJs == ATH-M50 but "better" and you start seeing why Tyll might mention the things he said on the Ether Review (that probably applies to ALL closed-backs).
Price really becomes an issue when the differences have to be measured in micro-details, textures, and clarity. Basically I can live with: Ultrasone Perf 840/Sig DJs/Sony MDR-1A/Beyer DT1770/etc. and WILL NOT be far of what the Sony offers...

Of course, that doesn't mean that X is better than Y, etc. but it's something everyone needs to keep in mind.

Recently I tried ZMF Eikons *thanks @grizzlybeast * and they are very good sounding, capable headphones at a lower price. I still would pick the Sony's over them (not necessarily because of the sound, but because of the style and especially, comfort). So in the end, it's all about personal preference regardless what/how they measure.

Enjoy!

 

[beowulf]

Finally finished all posts, quite a few talks.
Let's keep listening Z1R and enjoy it.
BTW, I recently got iFi Pro iCan, it really shines Z1R.

Sounds like a good idea. Seems that review ended up stirring the crowd a bit and giving the Z1R thread some extra steam. Also interesting for Tyll, probably.

I think his findings on this one are way off, but we can't all agree all the time, fortunately.

But back to the quote, how is that iCan Pro doing with the Z1R? Are you using the 3D settings?
I find their analog digital processing to sound really nice on the IFi Black Label, works great with the Z1R sometimes, adding that missing brightness and a bit more air in certain tracks (not always needed tho, really depends on album mastering).

Between that and the potential use of more XBass levels on the HD800, I think I'll be skipping Sony's reference amp and going for the iCan Pro. Looks brilliant both in feature set and performance.