[WNBC]

True, lower is better, but I was thinking at least the impedance of the amp and headphone wasn't violating the 1/8th rule.  Is there something about the impedance matching that I'm missing here?  Thanks in advance, you probably know more about the technicalities.  
 
 
Quote:

 
Output impedance at 2 Ohms is not considered low.
 
Most amp designed with regards to output impedance are almost always sub 1 ohm.

 

[kumar402]

 

is it like the output impedance of the Amp is increasing with increase in power output that may be the case of loosing control in bass at higher volume

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Had a horrible session last night out of the WM1A balanced, the treble sounded harsh, sibilant. Unlike I have ever heard it before. I was very tired, so I'm hoping it was my ears! 

Absolutely our perception of sound can vary significantly throughout a day, and of course over time. Certainly when we are tired the way our brain experiences sound changes. I have totally had similar experiences, not yet with the Z1R, I typically don't listen when I'm tired as I know it rarely yields anything worth the effort so there is a very good chance that was exactly what you were experiencing. We know almost 100% for sure your Z1R and source chain didn't/couldn't change so the only variable part of the experience was your perceiving brain, and that we know can change.

 

[WNBC]

I see.  For MicroZ:
 
Output impedance: (measured @ 0.5A, 60 Hz) 2 ohms 
 
So, at higher volumes would one expect this impedance to reach say 8 ohms, where things would get murky in regards to the 1/8 rule?  Or is not easy to predict?
 
In the end, I do agree there was lack of synergy and now it sounds like it might have to do impedance at higher volumes.
 
 
Quote:

  is it like the output impedance of the Amp is increasing with increase in power output that may be the case of loosing control in bass at higher volume

 

[BassicScience]

   
If you can - or have the patience to save $400-500 extra on top of your budget - I can recommend Ayre Codex. I'm still burning it in 24/7, as it's known to have a loooong burn-in period, but there's a phenomenal naturalness and bloom to the sound that doesn't congeal into artificial warmth with Z1Rs. I just have my office PC hooked into Codex via Wireworld Starlight Platinum 7 USB, and considering going with Wireworld for Z1R balanced cable, just for the sake of consistency and synergy.
 
When everything is burned in, I'll compare with Leben CS600/Yggy combo at home and report back for the Z1R fam.
 

Not to get too far OT, but I thought the Ayre sold for around $1800, well above his price target. I had the occasion to listen to it at an audio salon some months ago and found it to be a competent, neutral SS amp, but with no better sonics (IMHO) than my Benchmark DAC2, and significantly fewer inputs/features. It also runs very hot, even more so than the Benchmark. As always, YMMV.

 

[ross1974]

Grabbed the Z1R for a couple of tunes before bed and whoa, Keb Mo's "Everything I need" is a track that really matches these cans. The thump of the drums, cymbal decay, guitar and vocal detail and sense of space is just a fine match...  Truly foot tapping fun. Same for the bass guitar in "A better man"...
I'm gonna put this one on repeat a couple of times.

Actually, the whole Slow Down is a Good album for all Z1R'ers with an occasional preference for something blue. Strongly recommended, go lossless.

Epic!! Thank you

 

[ross1974]

Much better with solid state I thought as well. I liked it with my departed La Figaro 339 which is an OTL amp, but it lost bass control and became too warm I thought.

Don't you think it's likely that the Sony Signature amp is the best suited to drive them as it's made for them?
I am only guessing because I am super happy with this pairing.

 

[ross1974]

That's great! What it's all about

Very enjoyable sound. Makes me sleep late every night.

 

[beowulf]

  I think i might swing for the Idsd micro black. Or whatever it's called. Beast of an amp.

 
It's a really versatile toy. From super sensitive IEMs to power hungry cans, it delivers. Certainly not high-end but if bought at a good price, considering the flexibility, plus how it can be used both as a desktop amp or a somewhat-portable unit, it's good value.
 

  I owned the original iDSD Micro and it was quite a nice device for sure and the new Black version sounds intriguing so it will be interesting to hear about your experience with it and the Z1R.

 
It's not a bad pairing, but let's wait for more people to have the combo. I don't want to go wild on endorsements yet since I've had it for about... hmm... 3 weeks and most of that time it was connected to the Andromeda. First impressions with the Z1R are quite decent tho.
 

  Absolutely our perception of sound can vary significantly throughout a day, and of course over time. Certainly when we are tired the way our brain experiences sound changes. I have totally had similar experiences, not yet with the Z1R, I typically don't listen when I'm tired as I know it rarely yields anything worth the effort so there is a very good chance that was exactly what you were experiencing.

 
This is totally true and many people ignore it. People can fiddle with cable changes and minute tonal differences between almost identical sources, yet not always take into account how our ear/brain pair can change sound perception considerably. I can have some good differences between how I ear right out of bed compared to at the end of the day. Or after sneezing... or after one of those huge yawns that kinda pops your ears, etc, etc.

 
That's why quick first impressions might be poisoned. As well as noticing differences with infinitesimal changes to the sources.
 
 
 

Epic!! Thank you

 
Reading that comment just made me load that album... damn, "Everything I need" really opens with great punchy drums on the Z1R. It's a fine track for that, forget the kick-drum on Hotel California, who needs the Eagles.

 

[echineko]

I think i might swing for the Idsd micro black. Or whatever it's called. Beast of an amp. Man with the awesomeness i get out of the FIIO A3, I can't imagine the upscale i'm about to hear. 

Ever considered the Walkman? Even the 1A goes really well with the Z1R (especially balanced with 4.4mm), you don't have to go all out with the 1Z If you're going to get another unit you need to carry around, why not a proper DAP?

 

[Ra97oR]

  I see.  For MicroZ:
 
Output impedance: (measured @ 0.5A, 60 Hz) 2 ohms 
 
So, at higher volumes would one expect this impedance to reach say 8 ohms, where things would get murky in regards to the 1/8 rule?  Or is not easy to predict?
 
In the end, I do agree there was lack of synergy and now it sounds like it might have to do impedance at higher volumes.
 
 
Quote:

  is it like the output impedance of the Amp is increasing with increase in power output that may be the case of loosing control in bass at higher volume

Impedance is a complex unit. It will change depends on the frequency and load on the amplifier. But in general high impendance headphones are less picky about the source output impedance.
 
At least in my opinion, there really shouldn't be a law in terms of how much electrical damping is "enough", amplifier limitations aren't always limited to the frequency domain either. As an engineer, lower impedance is better if "synergy" isn't the issue.
 
If the pairing sounds good together then it holds more weight than just throwing the lowest impedance source in and say that is the best it will ever gets and dismiss everything else.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Don't you think it's likely that the Sony Signature amp is the best suited to drive them as it's made for them?
I am only guessing because I am super happy with this pairing.

The OPs budget was well less than the Signature amp would be, but yes I take it that the Sony ecosystem is the way to go if you can afford it. That said, the feedback on the Schiit Jot is quite positive so for me I would happily consider trying it if I was not able to look at more expensive pairings.

 

[Sonic Defender]

 
Impedance is a complex unit. It will change depends on the frequency and load on the amplifier. But in general high impendance headphones are less picky about the source output impedance.
 
At least in my opinion, there really shouldn't be a law in terms of how much electrical damping is "enough", amplifier limitations aren't always limited to the frequency domain either. As an engineer, lower impedance is better if "synergy" isn't the issue.
 
If the pairing sounds good together then it holds more weight than just throwing the lowest impedance source in and say that is the best it will ever gets and dismiss everything else.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more. Now in my case using the La Figaro 339 was while musical, just too warm with the Z1R and perhaps I was suffering from expectation bias, that is always possible, but when I used the Z1R with the 339 the bass seemed to me to become bloomy and obscured some texture. I don't even know what the output impedance of the 339 is, but I believe it was rather high. I think I will go look that up.
 
Here is a table I found that describes the output impedance of the 339 with different tubes so it does seem to make sense that the bass would become a little less controled:
 

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Ever considered the Walkman? Even the 1A goes really well with the Z1R (especially balanced with 4.4mm), you don't have to go all out with the 1Z

If you're going to get another unit you need to carry around, why not a proper DAP?

Yeah i would go for that after. I wan't power first. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Yeah i would go for that after. I wan't power first. 

I would suspect the iDSD Micro Black will be quite up to the task of the Z1R. The Mojo certainly is so if you want power the iDSD should give you good quality power.