[up late]

Since the review, I've had to return the Signature Series gear to Sony Singapore.

But yes, the T1 with the model number just before the baffle change (assuming 21k?) is excellent. I think the problem has traditionally been the fact that the T1 has a 1400 ohm electrical impedance in the 100 Hz region, so to really bring that bass out a powerful amp (balanced could help here) with sufficient voltage swing is needed.  Am reviewing the Feliks Audio Elise amp with it right now, and it is nothing short of excellent.  I'm finding the bass to be enveloping and responsive, and it's done some wonders. 

Now, I'm certain many will disagree, but personally for me, something like the T1/ HE-6 would be a more appropriate primary driver.  Z1R/ TH-900 would come in as a complement.  There are many things I like about the Z1R, but air and staging is important to me, and  open cans provide more of that.  As has been mentioned, Z1R is arguably one of the best, if not the best, closed headphone atm.   If you need that bass while maintaining good balanced tonal, the Z1R will do it, and I think that it has a multitude of strengths to that end.

'air' and an open/spacious presentation are important to me too, and i think that the th900 excels in these areas for a closed-back can . how does the mdr-z1r compare?

 

[EDN80]

Enjoyed CanJam on Sunday. 
 
The Elears and Utopias left me fairly nonplussed. Not too happy about Utopia + Woo WA8 as the combo sounded fairly hot/sibilant and prone to distortion when increasing the volume.
 
Fairly nonplussed too by Hifiman Edition 6, but LOVED the Shangri-La. Nonplussed/nothing to say about the Abyss either.
 
Favorite overall though was Chord Dave + LCD4. Best in show for me. Phenomenal.
 
Open headphones were generally at a disadvantage because of listening conditions/ambiant & crowd noise and PCM mp3s on iPads are obviously not the best possible listening materials available.
 
 
That said, it all magnified how much I love the Z1Rs. When price, value, and performance are considered together, they're hard to beat. Coupled with the ZH1ES, they sounded phenomenal. 
 
Still, returning mine for an even exchange from A... UK. 
 
Two months in and my pair developed a very hot/sibilant sound, with some loss of details at certain frequencies. Since I bought them in November, had until Jan. 31st to return, so A... UK just dispatched my new pair. Arriving Thursday.
 
Only thing I can see is the (sometimes extreme) heat in a typical older NYC appartment in winter, may be causing micro damage to the drivers? Checked my sources with other headphones. No problems there.
 
Will A/B once the new pair gets in to make sure I'm not paranoid. But since the opportunity to return was closing in, thought I would just do it and figure it out.
 
They will reimburse up to £10 and overseas shipping will cost me about $80. I initially paid $1392 back when they reached their lowest price, so not mad about it. Better get a new pair for ease of mind.

 

[rgs9200m]

  Yeah, I'm surprised Sony designed it like this. I guess I must of have a square head and is bothered by the hard sides, but the headband really is under pads.  
 
Sound quality wise, I felt it's a pretty good headphones, the female coarseness is reduced significantly after some burn in, still I think the Utopia beat this hand down, the Utopia is more natural/analog like where I felt the Sony has some rough edges.  Moving to a good tube amp helps, but then that helped the Utopia as well  This would be a keeper for me as a closed headphones, but alas the comfort factor isn't working out right now.  May just have to return them, maybe I'll jump on MrSpeakers Aeon band wagon.

I would give the Sony/Kimber cable a try. It adds liquidity to female vocals (and male ones too) and does away with any rough edges (but is is not smudged).

 

[kumar402]

  Enjoyed CanJam on Sunday. 
 
The Elears and Utopias left me fairly nonplussed. Not too happy about Utopia + Woo WA8 as the combo sounded fairly hot/sibilant and prone to distortion when increasing the volume.
 
Fairly nonplussed too by Hifiman Edition 6, but LOVED the Shangri-La. Nonplussed/nothing to say about the Abyss either.
 
Favorite overall though was Chord Dave + LCD4. Best in show for me. Phenomenal.
 
Open headphones were generally at a disadvantage because of listening conditions/ambiant & crowd noise and PCM mp3s on iPads are obviously not the best possible listening materials available.
 
 
That said, it all magnified how much I love the Z1Rs. When price, value, and performance are considered together, they're hard to beat. Coupled with the ZH1ES, they sounded phenomenal. 
 
Still, returning mine for an even exchange from A... UK. 
 
Two months in and my pair developed a very hot/sibilant sound, with some loss of details at certain frequencies. Since I bought them in November, had until Jan. 31st to return, so A... UK just dispatched my new pair. Arriving Thursday.
 
Only thing I can see is the (sometimes extreme) heat in a typical older NYC appartment in winter, may be causing micro damage to the drivers? Checked my sources with other headphones. No problems there.
 
Will A/B once the new pair gets in to make sure I'm not paranoid. But since the opportunity to return was closing in, thought I would just do it and figure it out.
 
They will reimburse up to £10 and overseas shipping will cost me about $80. I initially paid $1392 back when they reached their lowest price, so not mad about it. Better get a new pair for ease of mind.

well i really enjoyed 800S with WA8, i guess i tried Utopia with WA7 and enjoyed it a lot. My impression was with WA8, Utopia would perform to similar level as with WA7.
 
wow $1392 only that's great. I bought in US and paid $2K with Balanced Kimber cable. I feel bad now

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

We have the Sony/Kimber collab cable in stock

 

[thatonenoob]

  Still, returning mine for an even exchange from A... UK. 
 
Two months in and my pair developed a very hot/sibilant sound, with some loss of details at certain frequencies. Since I bought them in November, had until Jan. 31st to return, so A... UK just dispatched my new pair. Arriving Thursday.
 
Only thing I can see is the (sometimes extreme) heat in a typical older NYC appartment in winter, may be causing micro damage to the drivers? Checked my sources with other headphones. No problems there.
 
Will A/B once the new pair gets in to make sure I'm not paranoid. But since the opportunity to return was closing in, thought I would just do it and figure it out.
 
They will reimburse up to £10 and overseas shipping will cost me about $80. I initially paid $1392 back when they reached their lowest price, so not mad about it. Better get a new pair for ease of mind.

Could you measure the FR in any way?  I hate to sound skeptical, but this does strike me as being extremely odd.  I don't think space heating will cause "micro damage" to the drivers, seeing that the manufacture of the drivers itself involves a very heat intensive process. As a random shot in the dark, I see three distinct possibilities:
 
1) Complete unit failure 
2) Amplification failure
3) Brain-in.  It's very easy to be taken by the Z1R's bass, but the fact of the matter is that I came to notice occasionally sibilant upper mids, and the existence of the 3 kHz peak which for some may present a bit of an issue depending on the tracks, etc.
 
 

'air' and an open/spacious presentation are important to me too, and i think that the th900 excels in these areas for a closed-back can . how does the mdr-z1r compare?

I forget who said it, but HD800 with bass is a very nice way of describing the TH900.  Without pulling the whole closed vs semi closed vs vented vs whatnot into the debate, if we consider both as closed cans in the general sense, I felt that the TH900 had more air and staging in a number of situations.  It felt quite apparent to me at least.  But the TH900 trades mids, isolation, etc. for this.  Z1R is edit: a more* intimate can in presentation, TH900 is not imo.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Sibilant? Going to break out a few test tracks to see if I can catch it. Ultimately a headphone will reveal sibilance in a recording as opposed to cause the sibilance, but that is somewhat semantic as I do agree that a headphones signature can be more prone to revealing recording characteristics. Again, being a centrist here, if the headphone can reveal negative qualities, it usually can also mine positive qualities when available in a recording so in my mind simply finding instances of sibilance does not actually reveal a flaw, it can be a flaw certainly if the user is experiencing it as such, but the ability to mine detail can just as easily be a reward.
 
It seems there are a few choices we have in the hobby: (a) only listen to recordings that are free of sibilance (b) use equalization filtering to remove/mask sibilance (c) use headphones that are very smooth to avoid sibilance (d) pay it seems about $4000 now to be sibilant free while not losing detail (e) live with the fact that sibilance exists on recordings and if the overall tonal balance of the headphone is well done, the sibilance should be incidental or (f) a hybrid approach avoid really bad sibilant recordings all together, but live with ones where sibilance is not the main characteristic of the vocals.

 

[up late]

I forget who said it, but HD800 with bass is a very nice way of describing the TH900.  Without pulling the whole closed vs semi closed vs vented vs whatnot into the debate, if we consider both as closed cans in the general sense, I felt that the TH900 had more air and staging in a number of situations.  It felt quite apparent to me at least.  But the TH900 trades mids, isolation, etc. for this.  Z1R is edit: a more* intimate can in presentation, TH900 is not imo.

i regard them both as closed-back cans . i'll leave the debates over their vented/semi-closed status for others to have.

your first-hand impressions align with my suspicions. obviously i'm keen to compare them for myself but a mdr-z1r still isn't available for audition at my local dealer. so the mdr-z1r remains an enigma for now.

 

[Sonic Defender]

i regard them both as closed-back cans . i'll leave the debates over their vented/semi-closed status for others to have.

your first-hand impressions align with my suspicions. obviously i'm keen to compare them for myself but a mdr-z1r still isn't available for audition at my local dealer. so the mdr-z1r remains an enigma for now.

I would also agree, that the TH900 would likely edge out the Z1R on air and general openness. That isn't to say that somebody who values those traits is doomed to disappointment with the Z1R as we aren't talking night and day differences. I think it will come down to the preference of the overall tonality of either for the listener. The Z1R has a hard to describe atmospheric quality that is compelling to say the least. Perhaps that is at the heart of the emotional experience of music that Whitigir discussed? I personally believe the Z1R is still the better balanced of the two, quirks aside as all headphone designs have them. To me the Z1R does not invite me to really analyze the music, it really draws me in and convinces me that the more evident effect of sub-bass presentation is right, and glues the other elements together nicely. I really do think if you like the TH900 you simply have to try the Z1R. I liked the TH900 quite a bit, same with the D7000 and even the TH600, but the Z1R seems to be the better rounded out of the group and the atmospheric inducing qualities are really hard to not enjoy.
 
I suspect for some these characteristics might never impress or their charms wear off, but that is essentially true of any headphone. Who knows, in a year I might want a different presentation, but for now the Z1R is really rich, it is technically quite competent pretty much across the board, and it is really engaging and easy to listen to.

 

[up late]

i'm a fan of the th900 but am curious to try the mdr-z1r and to compare them directly. the w3000anv already provides me with a beguiling presentation that is fatigue free. it would be interesting to compare it to the mdr-z1r as well.

 

[dnnaudio]

Got the Z1R yesterday serial 2736. Over the past months I listened to various TOTL headphones. My current set-up is a DHC-cabled Shure 846 fed by ipod classic > cypherlabs solodb > hugo. I enjoy this setup a lot and I wanted a full headphone I can use at home that will give me similar if not more enjoyment while the 846 becomes a travel companion. The HP I listened to included the Audeze LCD line up to LCD4, Utopia, Elear, HD800S, Ether (not Flow), HE1000 and Z1R. Out of these HPs I felt the LCD4 and Z1R gave me what I was looking for. Take note I was not searching for a technically best HP if there's such a thing, I just wanted something that would give me more musical enjoyment than my current setup, and also more or less maintained the sonic footprint of the Shure 846 w/c I like. Between the LCD4 and Z1R I could go either way but my decision to go with Z1R was easy due to the amp requirement of LCD4 which I am not keen. I am primarily a two-channel guy and have a decent setup at home so HP listening is secondary. And my choice of HP is influenced by the voicing I have come to prefer on my two channel rig. When I listened to the Utopia in Singapore this was hooked to Naim source/amp and I was underwhelmed especially compared to rave reviews although I did feel it had amazing dynamics. I would like to get another chance to listen to this using different source as I suspect I might have heard it below par.

 

[emptymt]

  Got the Z1R yesterday serial 2736. Over the past months I listened to various TOTL headphones. My current set-up is a DHC-cabled Shure 846 fed by ipod classic > cypherlabs solodb > hugo. I enjoy this setup a lot and I wanted a full headphone I can use at home that will give me similar if not more enjoyment while the 846 becomes a travel companion. The HP I listened to included the Audeze LCD line up to LCD4, Utopia, Elear, HD800S, Ether (not Flow), HE1000 and Z1R. Out of these HPs I felt the LCD4 and Z1R gave me what I was looking for. Take note I was not searching for a technically best HP if there's such a thing, I just wanted something that would give me more musical enjoyment than my current setup, and also more or less maintained the sonic footprint of the Shure 846 w/c I like. Between the LCD4 and Z1R I could go either way but my decision to go with Z1R was easy due to the amp requirement of LCD4 which I am not keen. I am primarily a two-channel guy and have a decent setup at home so HP listening is secondary. And my choice of HP is influenced by the voicing I have come to prefer on my two channel rig. When I listened to the Utopia in Singapore this was hooked to Naim source/amp and I was underwhelmed especially compared to rave reviews although I did feel it had amazing dynamics. I would like to get another chance to listen to this using different source as I suspect I might have heard it below par.

so for you Z1R > Utopia?

 

[sarinfuhrer]

  As I posted earlier, I thought the Z1R sounded fine just through the iPhone but it really doesn't do it justice.  The $100 DragonFly Black markedly improves the sound.   And my Feliks Elise tube amp with the Z1R gives it a huge sound.  Everything is just beefed up but not at the expense of detail.   
 
So while the Z1R is relatively easy to drive, I think they deserve and benefit from some juice.   

 
Looking forward to audition Feliks Audio Elise with Z1R. I believe Z1R would benefit from OTL-driven amp especially in vocals. With stock cable and neutral source, it lend a slight dry signature in male vocal.

 

[thatonenoob]

   
Looking forward to audition Feliks Audio Elise with Z1R. I believe Z1R would benefit from OTL-driven amp especially in vocals. With stock cable and neutral source, it lend a slight dry signature in male vocal.

I'm not too sure about that.  My initial measurements indicate to me that damping factor w/ the Elise is going to have an effect on the way the headphones sound.  I measured a 3 dB bass boost in the lower frequencies and significantly increased 2nd harmonic distortion when I plugged my 32-ohm TH900 into the 40-ohm OTL amp.  The former may be "preference" but the latter is definitely not a good thing. I don't think it's a great idea to bank on pairing the 64 ohm Z1R with the Elise.   I've always felt OTL's should be paired with higher impedance headphones due to the effects of damping ratio and my recent experience does support this.

 

[beowulf]

There are many things I like about the Z1R, but air and staging is important to me, and  open cans provide more of that.  As has been mentioned, Z1R is arguably one of the best, if not the best, closed headphone atm.   If you need that bass while maintaining good balanced tonal, the Z1R will do it, and I think that it has a multitude of strengths to that end.

I have the exact same opinion and am betting on my keeping the Z1R for many, many years as "The" closed can.
However I also share your interesting in airy, well staged, holographic models, so eventually I'll have to pair it again with an open alternative. Perhaps something HD800S-like but with a bit more body. No rush with that, tho.