[zxathlon]

   
I meant stock. Had a mostly stock Type R for ten years and it was still faster than some other modded cars. It was more expensive but easy to confirm the different parts (internal and external) along with increased performance.
 
With a headphone like the Utopia, at least we know how expensive beryllium (though toxic) is. We also understand some of the R&D costs for developing a new type of driver along with an entirely new headphone from scratch. I feel like the Utopia's $4K asking price is more justified than Sony's revision of an existing driver and design while asking 3-4x more.
 
Reaching for the unobtainable creates a lot of discussion. Have a feeling this thread would be much shorter if not for the price debate. Z1R is getting all the attention it needs before most can even hear it.

 
 
Reading this thread I don't understand why there are people looking down on "Sony's revision of an existing driver".
 
IMO this is a substantial improvement by developing a hybrid driver structure. Similar product like pioneer's SE-MASTER1 asks for $2400, even more than Z1R.
 
The diaphragm material could not justify anything. I believe Sennheiser HD800/700/650/600/580/560 use similar unsurprising MATERIAL but definitely different DESIGN. Actually, based on Sony's R&D, Aluminum-coated LCP is technically the best single diaphragm material for headphones so far. Believe it or not. It can be as sensitive as pure metal, and meanwhile provide natural sound which is difficult in metal's case. However I don't think Sony has taken full advantage of their invention. Other companies you mentioned may use rare metals and advertise it in a fancy way. The sound turns out……as expected SPECIAL. I guess Sony's engineers would not think this is superior to their ACLCP, according to their sony sound philosophy.
 
Anyway, in hifi only the real performance justifies the price. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
Actually, based on Sony's R&D, Aluminum-coated LCP is technically the best single diaphragm material for headphones so far.

On what are you basing this statement? You might be correct, I wouldn't know,, but you are making a pretty big claim without telling us what gives you the confidence to say this.

 

[gr8soundz]

 
Reading this thread I don't understand why there are people looking down on "Sony's revision of an existing driver".
 
IMO this is a substantial improvement by developing a hybrid driver structure. Similar product like pioneer's SE-MASTER1 asks for $2400, even more than Z1R.
 
The diaphragm material could not justify anything. I believe Sennheiser HD800/700/650/600/580/560 use similar unsurprising MATERIAL but definitely different DESIGN. Actually, based on Sony's R&D, Aluminum-coated LCP is technically the best single diaphragm material for headphones so far. Believe it or not. It can be as sensitive as pure metal, and meanwhile provide natural sound which is difficult in metal's case. However I don't think Sony has taken full advantage of their invention. Other companies you mentioned may use rare metals and advertise it in a fancy way. The sound turns out……as expected SPECIAL. I guess Sony's engineers would not think this is superior to their ACLCP, according to their sony sound philosophy.
 
Anyway, in hifi only the real performance justifies the price. 

 
Sony used the same basic 70mm driver from the Z7 in the Z1R. Of course its been modified but adding an aluminum and/or magnesium dome is not the same as making a new driver from scratch.
 
They can charge whatever they want and people will buy it (that's why prices keep going up; its like printing money nowadays) even if the sound quality isn't magnitudes better (which we still don't know yet).
 
If the upward pricing trend continues, at least give us the most raw R&D possible and some completely new products (not revisions). Companies should be pushing the envelope more if they expect people to open their wallets even further.
 
As for materials, I read that beryllium is 30x more expensive than gold. In fact, in Jude's interview with a Focal engineer, the engineer stated a 1Kg sheet of beryllium costs the same as a 40Kg sheet of gold (at the same thickness). Doesn't mean the Utopia has to cost $4000 but that dome material represents a significant portion of it. What's Sony's excuse?
 

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

   
Sony used the same basic 70mm driver from the Z7 in the Z1R. Of course its been modified but adding an aluminum and/or magnesium dome is not the same as making a new driver from scratch.
 
They can charge whatever they want and people will buy it (that's why prices keep going up; its like printing money nowadays) even if the sound quality isn't magnitudes better (which we still don't know yet).
 
If the upward pricing trend continues, at least give us the most raw R&D possible and some completely new products (not revisions). Companies should be pushing the envelope more if they expect people to open their wallets even further.
 
As for materials, I read that beryllium is 30x more expensive than gold. In fact, in Jude's interview with a Focal engineer, the engineer stated a 1Kg sheet of beryllium costs the same as a 40Kg sheet of gold (at the same thickness). Doesn't mean the Utopia has to cost $4000 but that dome material represents a significant portion of it. What's Sony's excuse?
 

 
I asked that question on the first page and @thatonenoob said its a different driver.  So, its just a coincidence that its also 70mm...

 

[Sp12er3]

I can't take the pessimism in here... Can't people just cool down and let others who deem it worthwhile enjoy the waiting time?

 

[thatonenoob]

Draw your own conclusions. Also...there's a thatonedude?

 

[thatonenoob]

It's also important to realize that a good amount of rnd went into the enclosure as well!

 

[beowulf]

It's also important to realize that a good amount of rnd went into the enclosure as well!

 
And the fancy box. Don't forget the fancy box.
 
We'll see when it arrives. I expect anything, from being the next R10 to being a mildly sucky disappointment.
Obviously hoping for the first possibility of course.
 
Have the HD800S and the CD3000 on the table waiting for those titanium sheepskinned babies
/rubs hands

 

[Sp12er3]

Wahahaha didn't realise that... And actually he does exist http://www.head-fi.org/u/145653/thatonedude

 

[Whitigir]

It uses the same technology with a few tweaks here and there . Coming from an SA5000 or similar, people would say '"the same drivers" and they mean it

 

[beowulf]

It uses the same technology with a few tweaks here and there

. Coming from an SA5000 or similar, people would say '"the same drivers" and they mean it

 
I'm not very concerned with the driver construction. Sometimes it is not necessary to re-engineer something from scratch to get much better results. Perhaps their sound will be similar to previous (unfortunate) Sony models, but perhaps there is a surprise. The cup design/material however is intriguing. If they sound airy and holographic but still have some reasonable noise isolation, it would be great.
 
I did like Mark Wilder's comments on the launch, saying the MDR-Z1R's allow him to leave critical listening behind and return to listening for pleasure, the kind of listening that drove him to cut class on Tuesdays to hit the local record shops as a kid.
 
That's what I'm looking for. Something that sounds good and makes you tap your foot without noticing, even if it's not fully neutral, or has a treble spike or a bit of measurable bass distortion somewhere or has frequency charts that don't fully match what critic A or B were expecting. In other words, something that is fun, but not necessarily a super accurate tool.

 

[Drumonron]

  Not harsh.  I just wanted it to be factual.  I would agree that the Cello amps would make many systems bright, but the Krell's are very different.  In the tuning sessions, we worked hard to make the Z1R's a exceptional musical experience.  
 
I'm mastering a live jazz album right now and the producer and engineer are fighting over the Z1R's because they feel the depth is more impressive than my monitoring system.  The engineer uses the 1A's and I have the 1R's, 1A's and Z7's here as well.  They listened to them all and have been on the Z1R's for the past 3 hours.  I'm the only one listening on speakers right now.

Just wanted to place a sober post in an attempt to move away from the angry posts from people who are
are coming off disgruntled without even listening to the phone - based on speculation entirely.  C'mon my
open minded head-fi folks.  Oh, and if Jude is watching, looking forward to your in depth review of this phone
and completely loving your pics.

 

[Whazzzup]

It uses the same technology with a few tweaks here and there . Coming from an SA5000 or similar, people would say '"the same drivers" and they mean it

I'm not very concerned with the driver construction. Sometimes it is not necessary to re-engineer something from scratch to get much better results. Perhaps their sound will be similar to previous (unfortunate) Sony models, but perhaps there is a surprise. The cup design/material however is intriguing. If they sound airy and holographic but still have some reasonable noise isolation, it would be great.

I did like Mark Wilder's comments on the launch, saying the MDR-Z1R's allow him to leave critical listening behind and return to listening for pleasure, the kind of listening that drove him to cut class on Tuesdays to hit the local record shops as a kid.

That's what I'm looking for. Something that sounds good and makes you tap your foot without noticing, even if it's not fully neutral, or has a treble spike or a bit of measurable bass distortion somewhere or has frequency charts that don't fully match what critic A or B were expecting. In other words, something that is fun, but not necessarily a super accurate tool.

Th900 or even better la900 can this can knock off the king of fun. Concerning tech it looks like Sony put lots of thought into this thing.

 

[Beagle]

   
I'm not very concerned with the driver construction. Sometimes it is not necessary to re-engineer something from scratch to get much better results. Perhaps their sound will be similar to previous (unfortunate) Sony models, but perhaps there is a surprise. The cup design/material however is intriguing. If they sound airy and holographic but still have some reasonable noise isolation, it would be great.
 
I did like Mark Wilder's comments on the launch, saying the MDR-Z1R's allow him to leave critical listening behind and return to listening for pleasure, the kind of listening that drove him to cut class on Tuesdays to hit the local record shops as a kid.
 
That's what I'm looking for. Something that sounds good and makes you tap your foot without noticing, even if it's not fully neutral, or has a treble spike or a bit of measurable bass distortion somewhere or has frequency charts that don't fully match what critic A or B were expecting. In other words, something that is fun, but not necessarily a super accurate tool.

 
Grado SR60e for $79.

 

[beowulf]

Video about manufacturing.... 
 

 
It's a bit more poetic than practical/technical.
 
I don't think it was posted before (or if it was, I missed it)