[chadbang]

I much prefer macs. Mac are just better looking machines and their software is made to higher standards. Example? Compare the interface of top PC burning software Nero to the interface of Mac-native Toast. Tell much which OS system asks its third party suppliers to hold to a higher standard.

 

[GokieKS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czilla9000 The processor has better floating point performance than an Intel Itanium2 (I can hear PC guys screaming "WHAT?").

Actually, those who actually know much about the Itanium would know that's really not saying much of anything - the performance of the Itanium/Itanium2 have been mediocre at best, especially on legacy code.

IBM's POWER series of processors have always been excellent, and the PPC 970 (G5) is simply a cheaper version - so it's not surprising it works so well in a cluster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadbang I much prefer macs. Mac are just better looking machines and their software is made to higher standards. Example? Compare the interface of top PC burning software Nero to the interface of Mac-native Toast. Tell much which OS system asks its third party suppliers to hold to a higher standard.

The interface of MacOS X (actually, MacOS in general) is designed to be more spatial-oriented than Windows, and all applications must follow it, so it's not surprising that MacOS programs look better. That said, there's much more to software design than interface, and as an overall program, I'd take Nero over Toast any day of the week.

~KS

 

[MikoLayer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czilla9000 Ya...I don't understand why when a Mac guy complements a Macintosh computer the PC guys take it as an attack. Technically, what the iMac has going for it is the PowerPC G5. The processor has better floating point performance than an Intel Itanium2 (I can hear PC guys screaming "WHAT?"). That was one of the reasons Virginia Tech decided to use the processor and use Apple machines to build the world's third fastest supercomputer, at a cost of only 5 million. The Itanium2 cost $7,000 only for the processor, the entire computer (a singal node) cost about $4,000 (they were fully loaded) for the PowerMac G5s VTech used. Plus, they came with dual processors. The G5 can also execute 200+ instructions-in-flight, and is aided by a very complex three-saged branch prediction system. http://www.apple.com/education/scien...hitecture.html

Czilla9000, i can understand your feelings about mac bashing which is a commonplace. but if you followed this thread, it is anything but baseless bashing. the only person i see becoming emotinally invovled is OP himself

i am fully aware PowerPC chips are faster, its been like that for some time. that looks very good on paper, but does that translate real world performance for most power users? opteron >> any itanium btw, check the latest benches.

 

[Piccolo Daimaou]

I'm sorry, but the new iMac is butt ugly. And as much as I like OS X, I still feel that Macs are way too overpriced for the performance you get. Just a life-long PC user's opinion.

And yes, I've used Macs before.

 

[S_Dedalus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GokieKS IBM's POWER series of processors have always been excellent, and the PPC 970 (G5) is simply a cheaper version - so it's not surprising it works so well in a cluster. ~KS

The PPC970 is a single core version of the POWER4, running at lower clock speeds and designed more for low energy consumption than for really high performance computing, it also shares a lot of tech with the amd64 products. The G5 is just a PPC970 with a different interface, like the amd64 products it connects to low level hardware such as ram or other processors at much higher speeds than with other designs, that bus is called hypertransport, and it's what is allowing huge clusters of PPC970's and amd64's to beat much more expensive hardware.

Apple and pc hardware has never been as similar as it is now, they basically just use different instruction sets, but the designs are very very similar

 

[GokieKS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Dedalus The PPC970 is a single core version of the POWER4, running at lower clock speeds and designed more for low energy consumption than for really high performance computing, it also shares a lot of tech with the amd64 products. The G5 is just a PPC970 with a different interface, like the amd64 products it connects to low level hardware such as ram or other processors at much higher speeds than with other designs, that bus is called hypertransport, and it's what is allowing huge clusters of PPC970's and amd64's to beat much more expensive hardware. Apple and pc hardware has never been as similar as it is now, they basically just use different instruction sets, but the designs are very very similar

Low energy consumption? Relatively speaking, I suppose. The PPC975FX is what's really supposed to make headway in that direction (not to mention reach the 3GHz mark), but that seems to be still a bit ways off.

The PPC 970 doesn't natively support HyperTransport, actually - Apple is using a bridge chip for compatability.

And HT in and of itself isn't really what's helping the A64/Opterons - the onchip memory controller make a much bigger difference.

~KS

 

[ya8282]

So back on-topic... how's the sound circuitry? Anyone try modding it? One thing I miss is the G4 cube, with heatpipe and no fans -- preserves a great listening environment even though it tended to overheat.

I can't believe that people with their expensive amps shun something they believe to be overpriced by a couple hundred dollars. That's the price of not your interconnect, but interconnect terminator!

 

[Czilla9000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer i am fully aware PowerPC chips are faster, its been like that for some time. that looks very good on paper, but does that translate real world performance for most power users? opteron >> any itanium btw, check the latest benches.

Interesting,

MANY Mac fans are complaining that the iMac is too powerful!

There argument is it doesn't give the prosumers (PowerMac users) enough time to be the only people with G5s.

Personally, when I see threads like this one, I think their arguments are BS. Apple needs to speed up their computers as much possible to close the speed gap, even if its imaginary.

As to real world performance...I don't think the gap is that big and I don't think it is Apple's fault. If programmers don't use the potential power of IBM PowerPC processors by not properly optimizing, that is their fault.

Tiger will be introduced soon, and it will have lots of 64-bit code. Panther already has some, but Tiger will be much better.

 

[skitlets]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czilla9000 Interesting, MANY Mac fans are complaining that the iMac is too powerful! There argument is it doesn't give the prosumers (PowerMac users) enough time to be the only people with G5s.

sometimes I feel like zealots, of whichever camp, are nuts. Not enough time to be the only people with the g5? It's almost as if those people only want to have it because its a minority segment, which I feel sometimes carries over to the majority Mac users. They feel that because its a couple hundred over priced (well, I think its overpriced because of the 256 ram and weak video card) and looks better, its a status symbol or something. I really do applaud the few reasonable Mac owners who back up their like of the system with facts and reason, not, "I have a Mac, its cool and thus so am I." I'm a gamer, and I personally need upgradability and the plain fact that I can put the pc together myself. Now, if I wanted minimalism, a hassle/virus-free OS, and had more cash to spare, maybe I'd consider the Mac. But I have different priorities and will gladly give others up to have my gaming rig! I admit, however, virus/spyware scanning is a pain!

And to those who think the new iMac is ugly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some see Grado headphones as old, unfashionable garbage, and others see it as sexy, vintage-looking headphones. Why can't we refrain from subjective comments whose sole purpose is to enflame others, unless of course, the threads purpose was to discuss how the iMac looks. However, I've forgotten the purpose of this thread, as it has simply boiled down to PC vs. Mac. I'm all for it, as long as its intelligent conversation.

note- i'm not calling czilla a Mac zealot, seeing as how he actually disagrees with their argument.

 

[3lusiv3]

I started this thread only to point out that a new iMac, which I quite like (and would make a great computer source using it's digital out) had been released, not to start a Mac vs Windows war. It's gone a bit out of control now, but that's the nature of web forum threads I guess. They seem to get a life of their own.

There is some interesting discussion about the new iMac on Slashdot, if anyone is interested:

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl...122210&tid=175

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3lusiv3 I started this thread only to point out that a new iMac, which I quite like (and would make a great computer source using it's digital out) had been released, not to start a Mac vs Windows war. It's gone a bit out of control now, but that's the nature of web forum threads I guess. They seem to get a life of their own. There is some interesting discussion about the new iMac on Slashdot, if anyone is interested: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl...122210&tid=175

Then by all means, let's discuss the new iMac as a potential computer as a source.

-Ed

 

[PYROTAK]

amd 64 + dolthans own macs.

the old imac was better. this new one looks like it can fall over if i accidently nudge it from the side. then id have to pay ridiuclous apple repair costs because of stupid design.

long and short of it is that apple is ****ing up big.
first the ipod batter fiasco, the 28,000 laptop battery fiasco, the worthless new 4g ipod that has a ridiculous amount of problems, and now the new imac that looks more useless than the last one.

can't wait till they go the way of diamond s3 or 3dfx for that matter. do stupid **** and get owned.

 

[Sphinx]

Check this out



Antec® Super Lanboy Aluminum Super Mini Tower Case$114.99
AMD Athlon™ 64 - 2800 - 512K L2 Cache (Socket 754) Retail Box$199.99
Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu Heatsink & Fan $59.99
Asus® K8V-X, Socket 754, VIA K8T800 / VT8237 Chipsets w/ 8X AGP (ATX)$119.99
2 x 512MB DDR SDRAM Ram Module, PC3200 $229.98
160GB Maxtor DiamondMax® Plus 9 SATA -150 7200RPM 8Mb 9ms OEM$134.99
Panasonic 3½ in (1.44Mb) Floppy Disk Drive, Beige$9.99
Asus® v9520/VS GeForce™ - FX 5200 w/128Mb DDR & 8X AGP Retail Box$139.99
Rockwell 56K Voice/Fax/Modem (PCI) Win$14.99
SoundBlaster® Audigy™ ES$59.99
3COM® 10/100Mb PCI Network Card OEM$39.99
Mitsumi 104 Enhanced Softtouch Keyboard$19.99
Viewsonic® VG710b, 17in 1280x1024 Digital Active Matrix TFT LCD, Black$664.99
MS Windows® XP Home w/ CD & Manual (OEM)$134.99
Logitech® Blue Optical Mouse (Retail Box) w/ Wheel$24.99
Pioneer DVR-108 Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive (IDE) OEM, Beige$129.99
Enlight 420W ATX Power Supply$59.99
Arctic Silver Thermal Compound (3g Tube - multiple applications)$9.99
Microsoft® Works Suite 2004 (OEM) CD$114.99
Regular Price:$$2284.80
Best Price: $$2172.09


• 1GB DDR400 SDRAM - 2 DIMMs
• 160GB Serial ATA drive
• None - Bluetooth Module
• Keyboard and Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English
• 17-inch widescreen LCD
• 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
• SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
• NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra w/64MB video memory
Subtotal $2,454.00



Not to far off if you ask me. The PC does have some slight better stats and I chose the antech lanboy case as it's the smallest and as close to integration as I could get.

But let's not forget that the IMAC is an all in 1 unit.

 

[MikoLayer]

I dunno where to start... something tells me even imac users are smart enough to find better deals on internet

an oem NEC dvdrw can be had for ~$50
fry's had 160gb seagates for ~$50 AR
who needs a 56k modem, a fdd and a seperate lan card?
lanboy is so-so and why would you want an enlight PSU for so much? sonata is a much better deal at around ~$70 and that includes a reputable antec PSU.
although i dont like LCDs at all, for lil more money you could have gotten a DELL 2001PF (a very decent 21''). if you look around you can get 22'' diamondtrons for <1/3 of that price.
no one would let his friends buy a new 5200 let alone at that price, thats just a crime

your prices in general are waaaay too high compared to what most people buy their stuff at, just goes out to show how much one could get gipped if he doesnt know where to shop at

Guess I will have to post a corrected list once i am done with my ECE homework.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sphinx Check this out Antec® Super Lanboy Aluminum Super Mini Tower Case$114.99 AMD Athlon™ 64 - 2800 - 512K L2 Cache (Socket 754) Retail Box$199.99 Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu Heatsink & Fan $59.99 Asus® K8V-X, Socket 754, VIA K8T800 / VT8237 Chipsets w/ 8X AGP (ATX)$119.99 2 x 512MB DDR SDRAM Ram Module, PC3200 $229.98 160GB Maxtor DiamondMax® Plus 9 SATA -150 7200RPM 8Mb 9ms OEM$134.99 Panasonic 3½ in (1.44Mb) Floppy Disk Drive, Beige$9.99 Asus® v9520/VS GeForce™ - FX 5200 w/128Mb DDR & 8X AGP Retail Box$139.99 Rockwell 56K Voice/Fax/Modem (PCI) Win$14.99 SoundBlaster® Audigy™ ES$59.99 3COM® 10/100Mb PCI Network Card OEM$39.99 Mitsumi 104 Enhanced Softtouch Keyboard$19.99 Viewsonic® VG710b, 17in 1280x1024 Digital Active Matrix TFT LCD, Black$664.99 MS Windows® XP Home w/ CD & Manual (OEM)$134.99 Logitech® Blue Optical Mouse (Retail Box) w/ Wheel$24.99 Pioneer DVR-108 Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive (IDE) OEM, Beige$129.99 Enlight 420W ATX Power Supply$59.99 Arctic Silver Thermal Compound (3g Tube - multiple applications)$9.99 Microsoft® Works Suite 2004 (OEM) CD$114.99 Regular Price:$$2284.80 Best Price: $$2172.09 • 1GB DDR400 SDRAM - 2 DIMMs • 160GB Serial ATA drive • None - Bluetooth Module • Keyboard and Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English • 17-inch widescreen LCD • 1.8GHz PowerPC G5 • SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW) • NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra w/64MB video memory Subtotal $2,454.00 Not to far off if you ask me. The PC does have some slight better stats and I chose the antech lanboy case as it's the smallest and as close to integration as I could get. But let's not forget that the IMAC is an all in 1 unit.

 

[PYROTAK]

somehow i don't think the imac will be such a good source.

unless you strap a audiophile usb onto that bad boy MUAHHAHAHAH.

and yes im partial to the PC because my PC owns and i built it myself a year ago for under 1k and it can play doom III perfectly fine and rip and encode at alt-preset extreme in 10 minutes and shrink a dvd in 20.

lets see your imac do that.