[kvtaco17]

That's a good point. You guys are probably right and my opinion will change once I hear them from much better equipment. But still, some people exaggerate a lot and say things like the HD800 is unlistenable with lower end equipment. It drives people away from them even though they're fantastic.

They really do sound pretty good out of most setups! Heck my NFB11 got me most of the way there!

 

[James-uk]

Not really. Warmth and tamed treble are easy and cheap to obtain. A used nfb12 offers this.

Better amps offer IMO a greater soundstage and better dynamics so low level informations and blacker background is the real reward. Better DACs offer a more real tone with more meat on bones and less digital overall Sound. I have currently an o2/odac combo vs my current set up.

That's my current feeling.

Volume matched and double blind right?

 

[Sorrodje]

Volume matched and double blind right?

 
 
Ah ah ah ah .. You know it's not the case ... long period  ( weeks and month ) of listening only.  I tried blind test by myself ( I posted some pics of my experiences in this thread) but the volume matching is too hard to obtain.  I can't hear differences in fast A/B but long period of listening teached me more things . you can laugh at that if you want, it will not change my opinion .  You can trust me or not but I did extensive comparison between cheap and expensive gear and the expensive or overally more appreciated gear and the more expensive was not always the winner in my experience ..
 
When I gave O2/Odac example above , it was not to demonstrate my opinion. it was only to tell I have ( & had) very different gear at home . that's all.  I have not listened the 02/Odac combo enough to have a realiable opinion. 

 

[Sorrodje]

 But still, some people exaggerate a lot and say things like the HD800 is unlistenable with lower end equipment. It drives people away from them even though they're fantastic.

 
 
 I fully agree with that.

 

[James-uk]

Ah ah ah ah .. You know it's not the case ... long period  ( weeks and month ) of listening only.  I tried blind test by myself ( I posted some pics of my experiences in this thread) but the volume matching is too hard to obtain.  I can't hear differences in fast A/B but long period of listening teached me more things . you can laugh at that if you want, it will not change my opinion .  You can trust me or not but I did extensive comparison between cheap and expensive gear and the expensive or overally more appreciated gear and the more expensive was not always the winner in my experience ..

When I gave O2/Odac example above , it was not to demonstrate my opinion. it was only to tell I have ( & had) very different gear at home . that's all.  I have not listened the 02/Odac combo enough to have a realiable opinion. 

Sorrodje this ^ sums up why I really like your posts . You know how to play the game . I do value your opinion on the O2 vs TOTL though because I trust you have a reasonable perspective on things following this thread. So I'm interested to hear your initial thoughts on the O2 . I imagine you don't prefer it to your other amps which is to be expected but do you value it ?

 

[Sorrodje]

Sorrodje this ^ sums up why I really like your posts . You know how to play the game . I do value your opinion on the O2 vs TOTL though because I trust you have a reasonable perspective on things following this thread. So I'm interested to hear your initial thoughts on the O2 . I imagine you don't prefer it to your other amps which is to be expected but do you value it ?

 
 
Not enough time with it yet . I've received it a week ago so  you'll have to wait a bit more for a reliable opinion for my part. and I haven't any TOTL piece of gear except the HD800. 
 
For sure , HD800 is perfectly enjoyable from an Odac/O2 during one or two hours of music. I prefer it against a Fiio E07k/E09k combo for example. And obviously an O2/Odac and a Metrum/sonett sound almost the same. Almost.... Al is in this "almost" IMO.  I dunno if this is self bias or not but something seems missing with the 02/Odac when I try quick A/B . comparing Tubes vs Solid State is hard  to do though. I had a Meier Corda Jazz and an Old ASL MG head during many month and the Jazz was obviously better ( I did improvised Blind test and I could pick one against the other) but I kept the MG head because I always found the old tube amp brought something special on the table: instruments , sounds seemed to be slitghly more real maybe. It's hard to describe.  Finally what made me decide between the two was the fact My HD800 was plugged in the MG Head HO most of the time.
 
I had a Hegel HD10 last year and was happy during the first days. A month later, the only think i wanted is to sell both the HD10 and the HD800. I traded the Hegel for the Rega and pleasure was back . Obviously the Hegel was the best DAC though.
 
I only trust in long period of listening.

 

[James-uk]

Not enough time with it yet . I've received it a week ago so  you'll have to wait a bit more for a reliable opinion for my part. and I haven't any TOTL piece of gear except the HD800. 

For sure , HD800 is perfectly enjoyable from an Odac/O2 during one or two hours of music. I prefer it against a Fiio E07k/E09k combo for example. And obviously an O2/Odac and a Metrum/sonett sound almost the same. Almost.... Al is in this "almost" IMO.  I dunno if this is self bias or not but something seems missing with the 02/Odac when I try quick A/B . comparing Tubes vs Solid State is hard  to do though. I had a Meier Corda Jazz and an Old ASL MG head during many month and the Jazz was obviously better ( I did improvised Blind test and I could pick one against the other) but I kept the MG head because I always found the old tube amp brought something special on the table , instruments , sounds ans musical objects seemed to be slitghly more real maybe. It's hard to describe.  Finally what made me decide between the two was the fact My HD800 was plugged in the MG Head HO most of the time.

I had a Hegel HD10 last year and was happy during the first days. A month later, the only think i wanted is to sell both the HD10 and the HD800. I traded the Hegel for the Rega and pleasure was back . Obviously the Hegel was the best DAC though.

I only trust in long period of listening.

So maybe tube amps add a certain flavour that adds to the hd800s flavour? I like things to be be improved to my taste also but when it comes to audio I want to hear it 'vanilla' . For me the O2 (insert any other transparent amp) provides this clear window into the audio and headphone. I can fully understand anyone saying they PREFER an amp over the O2 and (insert modern solid stated amp/dac) but to say it's BETTER! , that's when I have a hard time just accepting opinions.

 

[Sorrodje]

So maybe tube amps add a certain flavour that adds to the hd800s flavour?

 
Maybe. I bought mainly the O2/Odac as a benchmark for other piece of gear and a basic & technically clean combo for heaphone reviewing.  The fact is my Metrum/Sonett is almost as neutral as the O2/Odac  and that the HD800 sounds "HD800 like" on both. For example the HD800 does not sound brighter or darker IMO from the two rigs. I remember the Vali as brighter for example.

 

[magiccabbage]

   
Maybe. I bought mainly the O2/Odac as a benchmark for other piece of gear and a basic & technically clean combo for heaphone reviewing.  The fact is my Metrum/Sonett is almost as neutral as the O2/Odac  and that the HD800 sounds "HD800 like" on both. For example the HD800 does not sound brighter or darker IMO from the two rigs. I remember the Vali as brighter for example.

How are you liking your DNA sonnet these days? I should have my stratus in a couple of weeks - really looking forward to that

 

[Sorrodje]

  How are you liking your DNA sonet these days?

 
 
I'm going to marry it . Do yo want more appreciation?

 
See the Sonett thread: no tube rolling, no complaint , no post... happy marital life. 
 
Seriously , I listen to music 3 or 4 hours each day and I have my HD800 since one year now. I tried different thingsand changed my gear many trimes and I went through periods of doubt with the HD800. No more doubts Since I have the Sonett/Metrum combo. I'm still looking for a compliment but basically my HD800 covers all bases for what I listen to.  Sometimes I woud be happy with a bit more forwardness & more "in your face" sound. T1 could have fit the Bill but I hate T1's Nasty treble peak. the Hifiman HE-4 was too close to the HD800 sound but not as good. HE-500 could be a good option but I'm sure another headphone will collect the dust besides my HD800.
 
So I try new headphones only for fun . The only headphone i did'nt try yet and could be a strong contender is the HE-6.
 

 

[LugBug1]

^^^^ Don't marry it!!!  It'll change... For the worse. Then you're stuck wif it...  

 

 

[skeptic]

So maybe tube amps add a certain flavour that adds to the hd800s flavour? I like things to be be improved to my taste also but when it comes to audio I want to hear it 'vanilla' . For me the O2 (insert any other transparent amp) provides this clear window into the audio and headphone. I can fully understand anyone saying they PREFER an amp over the O2 and (insert modern solid stated amp/dac) but to say it's BETTER! , that's when I have a hard time just accepting opinions.

I really like my o2 with the agdr board in it with my alphas and listen to the combo every night as a bedside rig, but my mainline hd800 pairing is in another league in terms of perceived realism, for me at least. I had hoped to arrive at the opposite conclusion, but hd800s just aren't driven optimally with the o2 when compared to some of the other options out there, even with the agdr board and lme49990 which measures a lot better in various respects, has twice the current for transients and 10x the slew rate.

It is understandable that you love the idea of objective transparency, but I think it is also important to keep in mind that there are some open questions concerning whether 0 ohm output impedance is really the ideal for all phones and how perceptible TIM caused by heavy use of global feedback is. If your ears prefer the o2 to all alternatives, that's cool. I don't think there's a right answer here. But to many of us who have spent time doing back to back comparisons with other well designed amps, o2 usually doesn't come out on top with hd800s.

 

[James-uk]

I really like my o2 with the agdr board in it with my alphas and listen to the combo every night as a bedside rig, but my mainline hd800 pairing is in another league in terms of perceived realism, for me at least. I had hoped to arrive at the opposite conclusion, but hd800s just aren't driven optimally with the o2 when compared to some of the other options out there, even with the agdr board and lme49990 which measures a lot better in various respects, has twice the current for transients and 10x the slew rate.

It is understandable that you love the idea of objective transparency, but I think it is also important to keep in mind that there are some open questions concerning whether 0 ohm output impedance is really the ideal for all phones and how perceptible TIM caused by heavy use of global feedback is. If your ears prefer the o2 to all alternatives, that's cool. I don't think there's a right answer here. But to many of us who have spent time doing back to back comparisons with other well designed amps, o2 usually doesn't come out on top with hd800s.

I've not heard any evidence yet to convince me that the O2 is anything other than transparent . All you have done here is add another opinion into the ring. You prefer another amp to the O2 . That's fine . But you haven't convinced me it's better. All you have done is show that you PREFER another amp to O2 (insert other boring, modern, consumer, Everyman amp )
Also explain optimally to me .....' but hd800s just aren't driven optimally with the o2 when compared to some of the other options out there'. I see it the other way. They are driven optimally by O2 but you PREFER a less optimal amp to alter the hd800s sound to suit your taste.

 

[OJNeg]

James: You should keep your mind open when it comes to amps. To imply all tube amps are overtly coloring the sound is simply incorrect. Triodes can be quite linear when implemented right and provide a certain transparency (yes transparency) that subpar solid state gear lacks. It's something you have to hear firsthand in order to understand.

 

[lin0003]

Any idea how the HD800 fares with the Lyr? I'll be having one come soon and would like to hear some opinions on it.