[johnjen]

Of all of the mods I had tried, the SAA mods and hardwired cable were the most significant.
Until I fussed with modding my 800's and came up with e 800-Jmod.
But then I'm biased…

JJ

 

[Lord Raven]

Is there a single best mod?

 

[Svstem]

Out of curiosity, I have picked apart the differences between an early (SN 084xx) and late (SN 429xx) production HD 800, both of which were purchased brand new for the purpose of comparison. As it turns out, there are very significant differences between them, both physically and sonically, and I have outlined in depth in this full analysis on my blog (measurements and photos included)

https://systematicsound.wordpress.com/2020/04/25/sennheiser-hd-800-review-early-vs-late/

 

[Lord Raven]

Mine is 48xxx and still trying to tame it

 

[sup27606]

Out of curiosity, I have picked apart the differences between an early (SN 084xx) and late (SN 429xx) production HD 800, both of which were purchased brand new for the purpose of comparison. As it turns out, there are very significant differences between them, both physically and sonically, and I have outlined in depth in this full analysis on my blog (measurements and photos included)

https://systematicsound.wordpress.com/2020/04/25/sennheiser-hd-800-review-early-vs-late/

Wow! You have written a whole manuscript on this thing. You have been meticulous and thorough. Good job! I am the owner of an early HD800, sn 057xx and agree with the bright treble peak and articulate bass. In fact, the HD800 bass is one of the most detailed and textured I have heard. Using a warm dap like Hiby R6 pro, it’s also possible to feel the punch and air moving with the bass along with the texture.

One question, your FR graphs are the result of how many independent measurements and do you have any error estimation for them? Treble measurements as far as I know, is influenced by the headphone placement in the measurement rig.

I wonder if our Skull and skin elasticity may also emphasize the small bass difference that you measured, since bass perception varies depending on loudness. You must have used the same volume level while comparing the old and the new, but I wonder if the owners of older HD800s turn down the volume a bit to avoid the sharp treble and so the bass sounds even leaner. Anyway, just speculating.

 

[GU1DO]

Out of curiosity, I have picked apart the differences between an early (SN 084xx) and late (SN 429xx) production HD 800, both of which were purchased brand new for the purpose of comparison. As it turns out, there are very significant differences between them, both physically and sonically, and I have outlined in depth in this full analysis on my blog (measurements and photos included)

https://systematicsound.wordpress.com/2020/04/25/sennheiser-hd-800-review-early-vs-late/

Thank you for the great work

 

[Svstem]

Mine is 48xxx and still trying to tame it

Definitely still is a bright headphone after the revision, but definitely more tolerable especially with the right source and positioning!

 

[Svstem]

Thank you very much for reading!

One question, your FR graphs are the result of how many independent measurements and do you have any error estimation for them? Treble measurements as far as I know, is influenced by the headphone placement in the measurement rig.

You are correct, treble measurements, especially on the HD 800 (which has a massive front volume) are extremely reactive to treble. In fact, the main difference that can be seen with positioning in the treble is that the peaks are displaced. For example, one peak at 7.5 kHz might be located at 9 kHz with different positioning, depending on the angle at which the front wave hits the artificial ear. I have done my best to position both headphones in exactly the same way (notably by taking pictures of one headphone on the rig and attempting to emulate on the other). Since the peaks on both headphones seem to be placed in the same frequencies, I would say the positioning was, at the very least, very close! If you would like an exact number, I have taken five measurements of each pair and kept the best ones (matched peaks and lowest noise floor).

I wonder if our Skull and skin elasticity may also emphasize the small bass difference that you measured, since bass perception varies depending on loudness. You must have used the same volume level while comparing the old and the new, but I wonder if the owners of older HD800s turn down the volume a bit to avoid the sharp treble and so the bass sounds even leaner. Anyway, just speculating.

Lowering the volume could definitely make the headphones sound more bass-shy and I could definitely see people listening to the original at a quieter volume to avoid the piercing treble so there's possibility of an interplay here. However, for the purposes of this comparison, I have volume matched both headphones at 300 Hz to perform my listening (using the SPL meter function on my MiniDSP EARS), and there definitely was an audible difference in perceived bass quantity and especially texture!

 

[Svstem]

Thank you for the great work

Thank you for taking the time to look through it.

 

[Peti]

I just got my HD800 back from Stefan Audio where did they the ultra mod and hardwired my cable to it. I'm quite impressed. More clarity and less sibilance along with an even wider soundstage.

 

[Lord Raven]

Definitely still is a bright headphone after the revision, but definitely more tolerable especially with the right source and positioning!

Thanks for the excellent write up! I read it all and I concur. I had HD 600 and then Beyerdynamic Tesla T1. Tesla T1 users believe that an earlier serial is more musical so I found a 5xxx model and enjoyed it before I bought a brand new HD800. I think I made a mistake when I traded mu Tesla T1.

I have a nice tube amp and two very basic DACs, Chord Mojo and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100. I enjoy the music but when I try to crank it up, it kills my hearing, it become intolerable. That's the only thing I don't like about it. I play DSD level and still the issue is there. I wish to fix it but someone suggested to EQ it from the software, I'll try that next. I am thinking to rip it open and perform the Super Dupont mod. Because that is what is different between HD800 and S version. Let me know of your thoughts. Thanks

 

[sup27606]

If you would like an exact number, I have taken five measurements of each pair and kept the best ones (matched peaks and lowest noise floor).

That sounds very reasonable. The treble resonance peaks are a big factor in how the HD800 sounds, that’s the big source of debate among the modders, who have worked to attenuate the peaks using various means. The superdupont mod benefits the early HD800, although it’s not as effective as the HD800S. It’s interesting to see how sensitive these peaks are to head position.

It’s surprising, some amps completely or mostly negate the treble peak, like the amp inside the Hiby dap or some very high end tube amps which I haven't heard. Not sure how they do that, certainly they don’t contain any negative treble peak in their frequency response.

 

[johnjen]

I too have 2 pairs of 800's. My 'early' pair (s/n 52xx) and older pair (s/n 40K).
And yes the Senn supplied frequency graphs are different.
And yes, I too found differences in their construction both of the drivers themselves as well as the rest of the structure.
Still the audible differences when stock were not all that great, despite the Senn. frequency graphs (which are nearly worthless IMO).

Which leads me to the topic of unit to unit variability, regardless of manufacture date.
And statistically speaking a sample of one early and one later production examples is insufficient to claim that this variation applies to all of these early vs later production examples.

If it were possible to measure 'many' pairs of 800's with a scattered distribution across the entire production run, these unit to unit variations would become clearer, and perhaps a true picture of any production run changes would emerge.
And then again, perhaps not.

And the oft claimed frequency aberrations in the 6KHz to 8KHz portion of the frequency response is not the primary culprit for their 'harshness', at least not in my opinion, which is based upon my years of fussing with these HP's.
It certainly is easy to assume such, what with the peak in that band sticking out over the rest of the FR graph.

But I have found that the single most egregious contributor to this 'Listener Fatigue' issue is the amount of leading edge overshoot that is purposely designed into them.
I have termed this the "Sales Enhancement Tool" which was used to 'help' sell them.
And this "Sales Enhancement Tool" is widely used by most HP manufacturers, and in my opinion much to their as well as our detriment.

And it was the SAA mods that 'clued' me onto this issue of Listener Fatigue and it's sources, in the 1st place.

Just my 2¢ worth of observations.

JJ

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

I switched out the Lisst in my mjolnir for amperex 1968 and the sound is smoother and more pleasant. They were made for Wagner—the Thielemann Parsifal is luxurious.

 

[Svstem]

I wish to fix it but someone suggested to EQ it from the software, I'll try that next. I am thinking to rip it open and perform the Super Dupont mod. Because that is what is different between HD800 and S version. Let me know of your thoughts. Thanks

The EQ is actually a pretty viable solution for the HD 800, but it doesn't fully fix some of its issues (namely the plasticky timbre and slightly inarticulate bass). However, if you want to make it less fatiguing, I think that's a great option.

Also, remember that positioning matters! If you place your ears towards the back of the ear cups, the headphone becomes a bit warmer.

As for the SDR, I had a chance to listen to an SDR modded pair recently, and found it a bit less metallic than stock, so that's a good option too. Just be careful about applying it correctly, because doing so differently on either side can cause a channel imbalance at 6 kHz. I personally never felt too compelled to apply it, but it is a possibility.

Have fun, and best of luck finding what suits you!