[Justin_Time]

 
You might reconsider that view if you've heard the HE-6 properly driven and the SR009. I own all three headphones and have lived with them for about a year on TOTL amps, i.e. the Woo WA5 and EC 4-45. The HD800 shines for live instrumental recordings and depicts the soundstage with an uncanny naturalness and realism unparalleled by the SR009 and HE-6. Yet, even when modded, the HD800 lacks flesh, body and soul when it comes to vocals. 
 
That being said, the HD800 is a fine contender for vocals - just not quite the top dog when it comes to that aspect.
 
When unmodded and paired with solid state amps and delta-sigma DACs, some find the reproduction of vocals by the HD800 grainy or even sibilant. This can be remedied by the Anax mod, use of OCC copper cables, tube amping (the 4-45 is the best I've heard, so is the Teton I've read) and most importantly, the use of a smooth DAC (most likely an R2R DAC).
 
 
As above. Not a rumour, but pretty much a (relative) fact if you compare the HD800 to planars and electrostatics. The HD800 remains the best dynamic I've heard so far, though.

 


I concur on both points. +1

 

[Klots]

So....got my HD800 just now (31xxx). Turned my M-dac and BH Crack on, connected headphones and.......im in heaven 

  

 

[MattTCG]

I'm using the Crack and gungnir and couldn't be happier...well, unless I use my Fisher 500c instead.

 

[ubs28]

   
Without getting all technical n'stuff… and oversimplifying a bit…
 
Balanced mode means that a differential signal is used that does not use ground as a source of reference for the signal itself.
 
What this means is 'one half' of the circuit 'pushes' while the other half 'pulls'.
While single ended has the whole circuit both pushing and pulling.
 
Balanced mode allows for 'cleaner' signal 'processing' by the whole circuit, because the output is independent of the electrical ground for the device.
 
Single ended is tied to the device ground as a reference to the 'active' signal.
 
And since the balanced circuit is not tied to ground it isn't 'influenced' by small ground voltage fluctuations as is the case with a single ended circuit.
 
And using a balanced circuit also improves 'common mode rejection' which means the circuit tends to cancel unwanted signals that can be added due to the common use of the ground for both channels (among other technical issues).
 
Balanced mode also doubles the maximum output voltage when compared to a single ended circuit with similar voltage rails from the power supply.  This means there is greater 'headroom' in terms of dynamic range potential.
 
JJ

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[johnjen]

  Thank you johnjen!
 
snip
 

Quote:

 
Thanks for the explanation.

 
:thumb
 
JJ

 

[James-uk]

I've just signed up to Tidal for lossless streaming and I highly recommend it. I was happy with spotify and chose it over cd for convenience . Now the best of both worlds has arrived and I am one happy camper! Sounds perfect from iPad / Mac book air through benchmark dac1 usb into HD800. RIP Compact disc!

 

[skeptic]

To add to JJs explanation, push pull amplification is one way of producing a balanced signal but not the only way. With push pull, you get moar power and double the slew rate but also double the channels, cost, distortion, noise (excluding common mode) and output impedance. Benchmark has a white paper on this. Supersymetry amps by Pass and kg's latest dynalo and dynahi are the only push pull variants that give you the benefits without the detriments.

Alternatively, other amps like the mainline and donald north lineup produce true balanced signals, as the output of two channel amps, via the center taps of output transformers.

DNA explains this as follows: I am frequently asked why an amplifier with balanced outputs does not include balanced inputs. This is because balanced inputs are not necessary to provide balanced headphone drive. Being a single ended amplifier, all it needs for input is a single ended (unbalanced) signal. The Sonett 2 operates single ended triode with transformer loading the plate of the 6H30 amplification tubes. The secondary windings on the output transformers are center tapped (and grounded for safety), thereby providing a true, differential, balanced output. Thus, you get balanced drive without the complexity from additional balanced input circuitry or input transformers. Again, the simpler - the better.

 

[johnjen]

To add to JJs explanation, push pull amplification is one way of producing a balanced signal but not the only way. With push pull, you get moar power and double the slew rate but also double the channels, cost, distortion, noise (excluding common mode) and output impedance. Benchmark has a white paper on this. Supersymetry amps by Pass and kg's latest dynalo and dynahi are the only push pull variants that give you the benefits without the detriments.

Alternatively, other amps like the mainline and donald north lineup produce true balanced signals, as the output of two channel amps, via the center taps of output transformers.

DNA explains this as follows: I am frequently asked why an amplifier with balanced outputs does not include balanced inputs. This is because balanced inputs are not necessary to provide balanced headphone drive. Being a single ended amplifier, all it needs for input is a single ended (unbalanced) signal. The Sonett 2 operates single ended triode with transformer loading the plate of the 6H30 amplification tubes. The secondary windings on the output transformers are center tapped (and grounded for safety), thereby providing a true, differential, balanced output. Thus, you get balanced drive without the complexity from additional balanced input circuitry or input transformers. Again, the simpler - the better.

 
Yes!
And yet another example of a 'simple' true balanced circuit (input thru to output) is the circlotron design as used by Schiit in their Mjolnir and Ragnarok amps.  This circuit topology is inherently balanced and is not 2 amp channels strapped together (double the parts count).  It is a rather sophisticated design from the 1950's.  http://circlotron.tripod.com
 
Schiit uses a solid state version (no output transformer) of this topology with several 'advanced' circuit tricks applied to the designs.
 
Low parts count along with their 'tricks' yields some very satisfying sonic results.
Which I can atest that they can match up very well to the HD-800.
 
Not to mention a very reasonable price. :thumb
And yes there are always exceptions, which I attribute to the designers creativity and desire to 'push the envelope', (or not).  

 
JJ

 

[dxanex]

And if you're like me, balanced also lets you run ridiculously long cable runs without any risk of degrading signal or sound quality.

 

[Sorrodje]

@skeptic : thks for the insight . I knew for DNA amps but I didn't know the Mainline provided the same thing.
 
 
The Sonett allows to use  both SE and balanced mode with the same XLR output. I had hard times to identify sonic differences in fast A/B comparisons though. I'm quite sure I gain something and I never switched back to my stock câble since I have my balanced câble. Dunno if it's the effect of the pure copper cable or the balanced mode or placebo effect maybe but I feel ( more than hear) an improvement .. maybe a bit more ooomph and a deepest soundstage. Overally I feel the music sounds more real now.
 
I received a Stax combo a few days ago : SR404 + SRM1/mk2. It's very enjoyable but nothing close to my HD800 IMO .
 
Oddly it seems the 404 is a bit brighter than my HD800 and (its not surprising) despite its air and wideness, the SR404 soundsate and imaging capabilities can not compete with HD800 ones. Everything sounds far more real with the Senn. The most obvious shortcoming of the SR404 is a kind of hardness in the mids. Nothing extreme but it bothers me a bit and I felt the need to lower the volume sometimes. More time will tell me if this lambda will deserve a place in my heart or not. the Loop through feature of Stax amps is extremely useful. I don't understand why there're not more amps who provides that.
 
 

 
 

I like to have a Stax at home though. This brand has a very specific aura and the E-stat sound has its charms I really appreciate a lot.

 

[traehekat]

Does anyone know if there are any differences between older and newer HD800s? 

 

[Chodi]

  Does anyone know if there are any differences between older and newer HD800s? 

This question has come up many times. You can search the forum for lots of comments. The majority of those who have owned both claim there is no difference beyond what minimal variance there might be between any two manufacturing samples. The consensus is that it makes no difference.

 

[BirdManOfCT]

  So....got my HD800 just now (31xxx). Turned my M-dac and BH Crack on, connected headphones and.......im in heaven 

  

Yay!

 

[traehekat]

  This question has come up many times. You can search the forum for lots of comments. The majority of those who have owned both claim there is no difference beyond what minimal variance there might be between any two manufacturing samples. The consensus is that it makes no difference.

I'll take a look, thanks for the response.

 

[kazsud]

This question has come up many times. You can search the forum for lots of comments. The majority of those who have owned both claim there is no difference beyond what minimal variance there might be between any two manufacturing samples. The consensus is that it makes no difference.

That manufacturing video is concrete evidence on how there a minimal variances and if two people at a meet each have one at either spectrum they will slightly sound different.