[andibrema]

Does anyone know which that black tube amplifier in the picture is?

 

[gubar]

Hi,
Thanks those who replied to me re the harshness and even offered to check the tracks I mentioned.
It's worse now - I'm noticing more and more, distortion and crackling. I can replicate/isolate it by playing the track below on Spotify:



This is worst case, but I notice distortion during normal listening. Not only in the bass - changes in tone are sometimes accompanied by a pop or crackle in both ears, worse in left. I've checked the screws as per this thread - they're all tight, so it's not that.

Or, perhaps my Denon can't drive it and is causing distortion due to high resistance... Is that possible? I've tried CDs, Spotify, radio. All the same. Mobile phone and laptop the same. Swapped cables too.

Back it goes! A shame, when it worked, it was great. I've ordered some x2hr which were on sale.

Thanks again for the replies.

Thanks,

G

 

[goodyfresh]

Hi,
Thanks those who replied to me re the harshness and even offered to check the tracks I mentioned.
It's worse now - I'm noticing more and more, distortion and crackling. I can replicate/isolate it by playing the track below on Spotify:



This is worst case, but I notice distortion during normal listening. Not only in the bass - changes in tone are sometimes accompanied by a pop or crackle in both ears, worse in left. I've checked the screws as per this thread - they're all tight, so it's not that.

Or, perhaps my Denon can't drive it and is causing distortion due to high resistance... Is that possible? I've tried CDs, Spotify, radio. All the same. Mobile phone and laptop the same. Swapped cables too.

Back it goes! A shame, when it worked, it was great. I've ordered some x2hr which were on sale.

Thanks again for the replies.

Thanks,

G

Sounds like either a very rare case of a heavily defective unit (which if you're REALLY unlucky can happen with ANY headphones in any price-range), or possibly your amp has clipping issues with these headphones or something. You mentioned a Denon amp? What amp is that? But then you also mentioned using your phone and laptop to drive it. Were you running those into your amp and using that to drive them?

Personally I would have tried exchanging for a new pair of the HD560s in case of it being a defective unit, or looked into possible issues with the amp you're using. But there's nothing wrong with going for the X2HR's instead, they're honestly the most major competitor for the HD560s in the under-$200 price range, although they do a lot of things quite differently.

I'm still curious about what amp you were using, though. I apologize if you mentioned it before but I somehow missed it. With my own HD560s driven from my Fiio K5 Pro (running on USB from my laptop), I can listen to the tracks in that Spotify playlist there and have no issues at all.

One thing to consider is that pops and/or crackles, in-particular, are very likely to be an issue with what's driving the headphones rather than the headphones themselves, although they CAN happen with defective headphones.

 

[gubar]

Hi goodyfresh,

thanks for replying. I understand what you're saying about how these issues could be related to the source - I'm limited to what itemsI have available (and being in lockdown can't try at a friends house for further testing for example), though I've tried it on the 3 different that I have. Those sources are though, pretty basic.

I've tried it on my:

Denon Ceol n9 (all in one, CD player, radio, has spotify connect) https://www.richersounds.com/denon-streaming-mini-system-exc-speakers.html

Google pixel 4a 5g

laptop dell G5 5587

They're just plugged directly into each of these - no additional amping, no headphone amp, no DAC and so on. That's why perhaps I thought, these are just not up to driving the headphones. Like I said though - I love music, but I'm no audiophile, and my understanding of pairings is limited. The research I had done before buying these headphones, suggested that they should be fine with what I have - being a little quiet on the laptop and phone seemed like the only issue I'd face.

They were bought online as 'ex-display/open box', which I guess in reality could have meant a return....

My reason for going X2HR this time, was due to them being very easy to drive, from any source, from what I can gather. I hope I like them as much as the HD560s.... when they worked free of issues they were pretty great, to my ears.

Somewhere down the line I might invest more in some new gear, headphone amp etc. At which stage I might pick up a pair of these again!

Thanks,

g

 

[Brava210]

Well not to cause friction here...I had the issue that certain tracks caused Distortion/rattle that did not happen with my Beyer DT770 or my Philips Fidelios or infact any headphone I tried.
You will love the Philips btw.

 

[gubar]

Thanks Brava210, yeah I hope I do like it. Should arrive next week. Sounds good from what I can gather, the sibilance some people mention concerns me a bit, but since you can't actually go to any shops right now to try anything... just go to take a punt! How would you describe it alongside the HD560s? I did love the sense of space, and clarity, that I had on the HD560s.

 

[goodyfresh]

Hi goodyfresh,

thanks for replying. I understand what you're saying about how these issues could be related to the source - I'm limited to what itemsI have available (and being in lockdown can't try at a friends house for further testing for example), though I've tried it on the 3 different that I have. Those sources are though, pretty basic.

I've tried it on my:

Denon Ceol n9 (all in one, CD player, radio, has spotify connect) https://www.richersounds.com/denon-streaming-mini-system-exc-speakers.html

Google pixel 4a 5g

laptop dell G5 5587

They're just plugged directly into each of these - no additional amping, no headphone amp, no DAC and so on. That's why perhaps I thought, these are just not up to driving the headphones. Like I said though - I love music, but I'm no audiophile, and my understanding of pairings is limited. The research I had done before buying these headphones, suggested that they should be fine with what I have - being a little quiet on the laptop and phone seemed like the only issue I'd face.

They were bought online as 'ex-display/open box', which I guess in reality could have meant a return....

My reason for going X2HR this time, was due to them being very easy to drive, from any source, from what I can gather. I hope I like them as much as the HD560s.... when they worked free of issues they were pretty great, to my ears.

Somewhere down the line I might invest more in some new gear, headphone amp etc. At which stage I might pick up a pair of these again!

Thanks,

g

Yeah, it sounds likely that you got a defective pair, I'm sorry that happened to ya! It could indeed be more likely to get a defective pair if you get open-box like you did, but I'm not sure. Good pairs of the HD560s sound amazing, though. They don't NEED a powerful headphone amp, as even though they have a medium/high-medium impedance (120 ohms) they are pretty sensitive (99dB/mW), so a typical laptop should be able to drive them just fine. However, due to higher impedance needing more voltage as opposed to current, they do BENEFIT from more powerful gear like my Fiio K5 Pro amp, which tightens up their bass and low-mids. But I see no reason why the issues you got should have happened with them from your devices unless the headphones were defective. The Denon device, especially, should be plenty capable of driving these headphones without any issues like clipping... hmmmm, so yeah, probably got unlucky with a defective pair.

Thanks Brava210, yeah I hope I do like it. Should arrive next week. Sounds good from what I can gather, the sibilance some people mention concerns me a bit, but since you can't actually go to any shops right now to try anything... just go to take a punt! How would you describe it alongside the HD560s? I did love the sense of space, and clarity, that I had on the HD560s.

I have a good pair of the HD560s AND a good pair of the X2HR's (though I had to go through three pairs of the X2HR's before getting one without channel-matching issues with left/right balance in the bass and mids, and two pairs of the HD560s to get ones without rattle/buzz at listening-levels, but personally I consider a channel-imbalance a worse quality-control issue than rattle).

I have been listening to BOTH headphones this very evening, so here is a VERY thorough side-by-side comparison of the two which I hope you'll find helpful rather than overly long and boring, haha:

The X2HR's have a bit more of a V-shaped sound-signature (although people who call them truly V-shaped are exaggerating, they're still pretty close to neutral) with more of a mid-bass hump (not a huge one though) that gives them more "punch," a wider soundstage, and a bit of a "smoother" presentation than the HD560s. They do better than the HD560s with poorer source-material (like stuff with a bit-rate of 128kbps, for example, or poorly-mastered recordings), while still having a lot of detail for something in this price-range when you play better material. Due to their somewhat more V-shaped signature, the midrange and especially vocals on the X2HR sound a tad bit recessed and lower in the mix compared to on the HD560s (which are pretty mids-forward as is common with Sennheiser headphones), so I tend to prefer the HD560s for movies and TV.

The HD560s have a narrower soundstage but with greater height and depth and more precise imaging (another reason I find the HD560s preferable for TV and movies) compared to the X2HR, so soundstage and imaging are a trade-off between the two. Their frequency-response is more neutral, in fact it's as close to ruler-flat truly-neutral (except for some bass roll-off below abuot 35Hz, but only a few dB, and that's unavoidable for open-back headphones) as almost any headphone in the entire world, to the point that the HD560sd quickly become widely renowned throughout the community for its excellent tuning. It has very fast drivers with a LOT of detail-resolution and clarity for any headphone under $350 or so; on just about any music, movie, TV, game, etc., with high-quality, well-mastered audio, I hear more details (not WAY more, but it's quite noticeable) with the HD560s than the X2HR. HOWEVER, with poor source-material like stuff that's badly mastered or has a low bit-rate, the HD560s' detail-resolution brings out those flaws and makes such things hard to listen to, so you may find that some Youtube content, for example, sounds better with the X2HR's than the HD560s.

As far as deviations from neutral tuning go: Both the X2HR and HD560s have some sub-bass roll-off below around 40 or 35Hz, but only by a few dB. Both headphones are noteworthy for having EXCELLENT, nearly unbelievable bass-extension for open-back dynamic driver headphones (if you want tons of sub-bass rumble, that's what closed-backs, IEM's, or various planars or electrostats are for) in their price-range, or really at any price below summit-fi levels. The HD560s has a TINY bit of a mid-bass hump, while the X2HR has more of a mid-bass hump, but it's still far from the bass-hump on the HD599, the massively overemphasized mid and high bass found on most "consumer" headphones, or the Meze 99 Classics or Noir (OOF, lol). Both headphones do have a treble spike (to my ears it seems to fall between about 4Khz and 6Khz) that's described as "piercing" and sometimes "sibilant" by many people. HOWEVER, it's not nearly egregious as Mount Beyerdynamic (haha) treble, or AKG treble. Brain burn-in (the mind growing accustomed to equipment's sound-signature) is a real thing, and I personally find the treble-spikes on the X2HR and HD560s mild enough that I grew used to them after just a few days. I will say though that the spike in the X2HR's treble is a bit more noticeable than the HD560s' spike because the rest of its treble is less even/neutral and at a lower level than the HD560s treble between around 2Khz and 8Khz. The X2HR's treble doesn't BOTHER me at all, but I find the treble on the HD560s a bit more even and refined than that on the X2HR. But regardless, if the HD560s' treble-peak didn't bother you, than neither should the one on the X2HR!

One non-sound-related thing to take note of is that Philips does not sell replacements for the stock earpads on the X2HR's, so it's impossible to get new pads that don't change the sound (since the drivers and enclosures were tuned for use with the stock pads). Sennheiser, on the other hand, does sell the stock earpads for the HD560s (not listed as for that model, but anything from the HD5__'s series of headphones has the same earpads except apparently the HD579) in case you ever need replacements. Unfortunate, but Philips has ignored people's requests for the earpads for over five years now, so there's nothing we can do about it. Something to note about the X2HR's earpads is that they are MAGNETS for LINT AND DUST; if you're planning to use those headphones in the long-term, you want to get a lint-roller, and be very careful when cleaning the pads so as to note tear or damage anything!

Overall, a good pair of either of these headphones is going to sound amazing. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses; the X2HR do a couple things better, while the HD560s do some other things better. Also, one last thing to note about their sound is that both headphones do EXCELLENTLY with virtualized surround-sound software like Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTX, etc.; obviously you don't wanna use that for music, but it makes them sound awesome with TV, movies, and games! It even makes the imaging on the X2HR's more precise and defined, although the HD560s remain better at precise imaging when both are compared using virtualized surround.

Jeez that was LONG. I should really go ahead and just post reviews of both headphones sometime soon, and in each review use the other headphone as my ponit of comparison, haha But I hope that this post is helpful to people who want a thorough comparison of these two headphones; I have the benefit of having good pairs of both cans and a lot of time with both by now! And the HD560s and X2HR are both probably the best open-back headphones available right now for under $300!

 

[gubar]

Hi goodyfresh,

what a great, detailed, generous answer Thanks for taking the time to write that, I really appreciate it.

Now I just have to wait! The way you describe the X2HR sounds like it will meet my needs. I might also still order another HD560s... we shall see Feel a bit like I'm going down the rabbit hole, not sure where this will end up!

The width sounds great on the X2HR, though I did love how precise the placment felt on the HD560s (when it wasn't rattling). I think a little extra base might not hurt... I found the HD560s to be quite substantial in that area already though to be fair. Treble is something that, I have found, I'm quite sensitve too... but I'll see how I get on.

Whatever I end up with, I'll probably end up back on this forum, I've enjoyed it and found it responsive and helpful. Thanks for being part of it!

Thanks,

g

 

[lastsd]

While waiting for Amazon.ca to get HD 560s in stock, I ended up refreshing my HD598 with new ear & head pads with cheap ones from Aliexpress (the OEM parts have been out of stock for a while now from Sennheiser.ca)

Now my desire to instant buy HD 560s have diminished. Might just buy Audio-Technica R70x & Harmonicdyne Zeus for now and come back to 560s once the new pads I installed wear out.

Also, my new ER2SE also need some love and I only have two ears

Who knows maybe HD560s will even go on sale few months down the road

 

[goodyfresh]

While waiting for Amazon.ca to get HD 560s in stock, I ended up refreshing my HD598 with new ear & head pads with cheap ones from Aliexpress (the OEM parts have been out of stock for a while now from Sennheiser.ca)

Now my desire to instant buy HD 560s have diminished. Might just buy Audio-Technica R70x & Harmonicdyne Zeus for now and come back to 560s once the new pads I installed wear out.

Also, my new ER2SE also need some love and I only have two ears

Who knows maybe HD560s will even go on sale few months down the road

Well on the one hand, the HD560s is about infinitely better than the HD598... buuut in your case I'd say that doesn't matter if you're gonna buy the R70x! You really can't go wrong with the R70x if you want something with a practically ruler-flat, neutral, analytical frequency-response and surprisingly good bass-extension for an open-back like the HD560s; I've had the chance to listen to a pair before and the R70x struck me as VERY neutral, and their detail-retrieval is excellent. It's been too long since I listened to them for me to compare/contrast, but I feel they may be better in some ways than the HD560s... although whether they're enough better to be worth spending $350 instead of $200 is something that may prove more debatable, but if you can afford that price-range then I'd say to go for it! There's some stories of them having build-quality issues and breaking, buuuut Audio Technica offers a very good two year warranty, so even if that happens it shouldn't really be an issue! I would go into how with a 470ohm impedance the R70x require an amp with high voltage, but I see you have a Liquid Spark so clearly that's no issue for you

But if you're looking to buy the R70x AND the Zeus, why not just combine the prices and look for a single headphone that's the best you can get for your preferences and under $700? Or is is it that you're looking for a variety of sound-signatures? The R70x are, like the HD560s, pretty much completely neutral, while the Zeus are apparently warmer/bassier and a bit v-shaped. In the end it depends on your personal preferences as to whether you'd dislike having to play with equalization. I will say though that if you're looking at the $350 price-tag, then the HiFiMan Sundaras are also worth considering... SUPPOSEDLY HiFiMan has fixed their quality-control issues, and I've had a chance to listen to a pair in the past and they sounded ***excellent***, with an AWESOME soundstage and imaging. The Sundaras have a bit more bass roll-off than the HD560s or R70x.

All that being said, I will reiterate that the HD560s is a MUCH better headphone than the HD598 There's practically no comparison; the HD560s blow all the other HD5__ series cans out of the water.

 

[lastsd]

Well on the one hand, the HD560s is about infinitely better than the HD598... buuut in your case I'd say that doesn't matter if you're gonna buy the R70x! You really can't go wrong with the R70x if you want something with a practically ruler-flat, neutral, analytical frequency-response and surprisingly good bass-extension for an open-back like the HD560s; I've had the chance to listen to a pair before and the R70x struck me as VERY neutral, and their detail-retrieval is excellent. It's been too long since I listened to them for me to compare/contrast, but I feel they may be better in some ways than the HD560s... although whether they're enough better to be worth spending $350 instead of $200 is something that may prove more debatable, but if you can afford that price-range then I'd say to go for it! There's some stories of them having build-quality issues and breaking, buuuut Audio Technica offers a very good two year warranty, so even if that happens it shouldn't really be an issue! I would go into how with a 470ohm impedance the R70x require an amp with high voltage, but I see you have a Liquid Spark so clearly that's no issue for you

But if you're looking to buy the R70x AND the Zeus, why not just combine the prices and look for a single headphone that's the best you can get for your preferences and under $700? Or is is it that you're looking for a variety of sound-signatures? The R70x are, like the HD560s, pretty much completely neutral, while the Zeus are apparently warmer/bassier and a bit v-shaped. In the end it depends on your personal preferences as to whether you'd dislike having to play with equalization. I will say though that if you're looking at the $350 price-tag, then the HiFiMan Sundaras are also worth considering... SUPPOSEDLY HiFiMan has fixed their quality-control issues, and I've had a chance to listen to a pair in the past and they sounded ***excellent***, with an AWESOME soundstage and imaging. The Sundaras have a bit more bass roll-off than the HD560s or R70x.

All that being said, I will reiterate that the HD560s is a MUCH better headphone than the HD598 There's practically no comparison; the HD560s blow all the other HD5__ series cans out of the water.

Thank you for a detailed response!

R70X is interesting with very polarizing reviews. People who love them seems to swear by it (basically flatter HD600 with better base and comfort), while others don't like it very much for various reasons, including: head-band design, ear cup size, less detail than 600, boring FR, etc.

In terms of Sundara, as you mentioned, QC supposedly improved but I probably won't bother with it because it's not just that I may end up with defective product from the get go, it just doesn't seem to last very long even if I get a good unit.

On the fence with Zeus at the moment. I do want to get a non-neutral headphone to go with neutral sets but I don't like that I would have to send things outside of Canada if I get a lemon.

I was initially going to buy both HD560s & R70x but I don't think that makes too much sense since they are both very neutral with good base extension.
I also picked up ER2SE, which is also neutral, so having three of them would be redundant.
You are probably correct that R70x is not $150USD better than HD560s.

I am mostly limiting myself to only items that are available on Amazon.ca for reasons I listed previously , which limits my choices.

In the end, I am no longer in a hurry, I got enough equipment right now that I don't NEED to buy one immediately anymore. Best case scenario would be R70X and 560s both getting in stock at similar time so I can order both and keep the one I want and return the other.

Besides researching stuff is half the fun.

 

[dbss]

Sennheiser is going to sell off their consumer audio division (which includes the HD500/600/800-series):

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/newsro...ness-units-independently-of-each-other-s5jh2n

RIP : (

 

[dbss]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/16/...elling-consumer-headphones-soundbars-business

: ((

 

[deadchip12]

Sennheiser is going to sell off their consumer audio division (which includes the HD500/600/800-series):

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/newsro...ness-units-independently-of-each-other-s5jh2n

RIP : (

Oh wow...

Goodbye, Senn.

 

[goodyfresh]

Sennheiser is going to sell off their consumer audio division (which includes the HD500/600/800-series):

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/newsro...ness-units-independently-of-each-other-s5jh2n

RIP : (

Oh wow...

Goodbye, Senn.

Let's not panic before we even see what happens. Read the press-release more closely, and completely ignore the Verge article which has a clickbait title containing the word "sell" (patently false) to get more views. This is going to be one of my suuuper-long wall-of-text posts, but I want to explain why we should not panic over this, and why this is ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT the death of Sennheiser as a proper audiophile headphone company:

Sennheiser is not looking to SELL their Consumer Audio division unless they believe that will result in no compromises regarding engineering and sound-quality (more on that below). They are looking to find a partner/investor so that they can have more R&D funds available for consumer audio so they can catch up to competitors (in the press release they outright admit that they've mostly failed to catch up to competitors, with the HD560s being an obvious exception but they don't mention it). For example, people have been waiting forever for a proper successor to the HD6__'s series that fixes the soundstage/imaging issues, and for a proper successor to the HD800 that keeps its insane detail and soundstage but fixes its incredibly painful treble-peak; meanwhile companies like HiFiMan (ignoring their quality-control issues for now), Focal, and many others, continue to develop new products that keep innovating and changing the audiophile-headphone landscape. Sennheiser is also behind the game at this point when it comes to true-wireless Bluetooth stuff, and they need funds for that.

Meanwhile, their more mainstream consumer-oriented products like the closed-back models in the HD500's series have failed to sell well enough to come close to competing with mainstream consumer brands, despite having MUCH better sound-quality and value-for-money than headphones like Beats and Skullcandy (again, more on this below). Apparently, what they need and are looking for is a partner/investor to inject a huge amount of new funds for R&D so they can catch up to competitors. But they outright say in the press-release that they want to continue to "play to their strengths" and that they only want to make a deal if it results in "all business units being strengthened."

Andreas Sennheiser: "For over 75 years, Sennheiser has stood for excellent technology and unique audio experiences. In doing so, we always focus on the needs of our customers. And we will continue to do so in the future."

Normally I'd say this sounds like a bunch of feel-good marketing-lingo that can't be trusted; however, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and take them at their word given that Sennheiser has a track record of being an amazingly trustworthy company with nearly the best customer-service in the entire headphone industry. What they're planning here is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than something like when Samsung bought AKG (ugh), and is also different than what Sennheiser did with their gaming division with EPOS. They just want a partner so that they can focus their own money on their Pro Audio division (because their funds haven't been enough and they've been losing money on their consumer audio division due to trying to split funds between that and the pro audio division), and the partner will get them their funds for Consumer Audio while then sharing with Senn in the profits resulting from that division.

There's no conceivable way that Sennheiser will just ABANDON their highly-selling legacy product-lines like the HD6__'s series and the HD800. That'd be madness, and they aren't stupid. In the Sennheiser bros' statement to the German news outlet Handelsblatt (anyone who wants to can find that article and use Google Translate on it, it's a MUCH more trustworthy article than the clickbait sensationalist one from The Verge), they explained that they do not want to compromise sound-quality in their products, and want to continue to focus on it. However, they've come to realize that mainstream consumers have come to heavily value looks/aesthetics and brand-name over sound-quality in headphones, and as a result Sennheiser has been losing market-share in the industry. They want a partner to help boost the brand's recognition and inject funds for R&D and manufacturing, and they want to improve the LOOKS of their headphones, while not compromising sound-quality, so that mainstream consumers will want to buy Senns with great SQ instead of crappy brands like Beats and Skullcandy that just happen to come in fancy color-schemes and get worn by celebrities.

The worst case scenario isn't bad at all: It's that existing Sennheiser audiophile cans will stay the same quality-wise, but possibly improve in the looks department, and that the company will have funds for marketing to make themselves more visible to compete with companies like Beats, Skullcandy, and Sony. Meanwhile, they would develop new Bluetooth products.

But the better-case scenario is AMAZING, and PRETTY LIKELY given that the Senn brothers want to still focus on good engineering and sound-quality: Namely, this could be the injection of funds that they need for R&D to finally come out with worthy successors to stuff like the HD600's series and the HD800. Imagine this: A successor to the HD600's line that maintains or even IMPROVES their level of detail-resolution which is still nearly best-in-class, but fixes their issues by giving them soundstage/imaging and a level of non-mids frequencies as good as the HD560s has (but with no treble-spike). Imagine how amazing an HD600 with actual sub-bass, a bit more low-treble, and angled drivers with a proper holographic soundstage would be. Now imagine this: A proper successor to the HD800 that maintains its insane level of detail and ridiculously impressive soundstage but with more low-bass while managing to tone down the painful treble.

Basically, imagine if they were able to make products with the build-quality, detail-resolution, etc., of the 600s and 800s series, but the nearly ruler-flat neutral tuning (but no mild 5Khz spike) and at least the level of soundstage (or in the 800-successor's case, much more soundstage) as the HD560s this thread is about. That is the kind of thing that a partnership with a new investor could give Sennheiser the funds to pull off. Rather than being a bad thing, this plan by Sennheiser could, within a few years, turn out to be the best thing to happen in the world of audiophile headphones in many years! I for one am very much hoping for an "HD670" and an "HD880."

Unlike their old Gaming Division, Sennheiser actually CARES about their Consumer Audio division, they take pride in it. As a company with more integrity and love for customers than AKG had, they won't screw it up. So for now, continue bopping and vibing to the awesome sound from your existing Sennheiser cans (like the wonderful, best-in-its-price-range HD560s), and don't worry about the company being ruined like AKG was or Senn's gaming division was, because it won't be ruined!