The New HD 560S: Linear Acoustics at a Breakthrough Value
Oct 19, 2020 at 6:14 AM Post #946 of 2,621
With these being pretty neutral and accurate (to my ears...) it suggests it is his gear that is harsh in the treble.
The 560s are not even remotely close to having harsh treble.

Something like the shp9500 are what I consider to be harsh treble. Those definitely have lots of sibilance. They can be piercing as hell with certain music and games. The x2hr has harsh treble in that it's sort of peaky and all over the place.

The treble on the 560s is clear and precise, I haven't heard a hint of sibilance. I'm not sure what role my schiit hel may play in how the treble is presented- I doubt it has an impact here.
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 7:19 AM Post #948 of 2,621
With these being pretty neutral and accurate (to my ears...) it suggests it is his gear that is harsh in the treble.
The 560s are not even remotely close to having harsh treble.

Something like the shp9500 are what I consider to be harsh treble. Those definitely have lots of sibilance. They can be piercing as hell with certain music and games. The x2hr has harsh treble in that it's sort of peaky and all over the place.

The treble on the 560s is clear and precise, I haven't heard a hint of sibilance. I'm not sure what role my schiit hel may play in how the treble is presented- I doubt it has an impact here.

So have you listened to the recording of the HD560S in the video, and do you think it accurately displays the relative difference? Does the treble in the recording seem harsh?

If the recording seems harsh to you, but the actual headphone does not, that would be interesting!
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 8:50 AM Post #949 of 2,621
From what I can tell the 560S provides corrections to the 600 issues: no 5k peak, better bass response, wider soundstage and more precise imaging, whilst maintaining the great clarity and speedy attack/decay.

This may sound like sacrilege to the 600 faithful, but I think the 560S is a successful attempt at improving on the well-known weaknesses the 600 has, though it is a great headphone in it’s own right.

In the hd600 there isn't any peak, they are one of the flattest pair ever made. The hd600 doesn't have any big flaw, their sound is dedicated to mid lovers like me, the stage is just perfect to an intimate listen, the bass is tight and musical but not distracting from the voices. their rhythm is engaging and I can feel an ethereal image floating all around me with an unrivaled sense of presence. The dynamic and the transients are astounding: the wow factor is there. listening to Jonas Kaufmann Verdi Album (one of the best classical voice recording) is a private concert: from the first time the gentle notes are really gentle, and the full volume of his voice has the harmonic complexity of my live experience in front of him; Haken - Virus is presented as intended, a well distinct wall of sound. there are Not reverberations, no fake details, no overdone frequencies. You can't call flaws these wonderful features.

Maybe some find THE masterpiece a little boring, but not me. Music at his intended state is not boring, it's true. HD560s (from oluv's demo comparison against THE queen of flatness) adds fake details and a bigger stage making them more engaging at first. Wow factor reached for a day. Other manufacturer did the same operation in the past: Philips with the shp9500, Audio Technica with a lot of models (while the r70x, being a pro oriented model, seems to have more hd6x0 resemblance), Beyerdynamic with all the dt serie, Sony adding bass until it's too much. I have a good hearing from 20 to 18,500 hz, so I can easily hear lifts from 1,5 db in all frequencies from the standard (hd600).

Oluv measurement and test are pretty accurate. The difference in the mid treble zone, due to the angled drivers, is gigantic for my tastes. The perceived graininess sometimes comes from the lumpiness of that precise region. Yes, you can call it detail.
The extended bass lessen the perceived kick of upper bass and the body of a Baritone voice.
The width of the stage isn't related to the most important aspect of the image (for me): the depth. I prefer to perceive more layers than a super wide image.
But It's me. As a lover of mid to hi-fi I'd prefer to see a more controlled hype. The hd560, like the hd650 and the 58x before, were created to give to the consumers what they wanted, but Sennheiser knows very well that in few days the 560 will be clearly in the 100-140 street price league, just under the x2hr and the dt880, as a non professional, music lover customer oriented because, as Beyerdynamic very well knows, the 4 to 7 khz must be flat or recessed to compensate the concha gain, and the brilliancy for the highs enthusiasts (or old eared people) must be positioned from 8 khz to the end of the hearable. This must be clear to 5 khz sensitive guys who are searching more sparkle/stage/bass than their hd600. There is a model who can do this a lot better than the 560: the AKG K712 pro, ah hidden masterpiece dedicated to hi-fi enthusiasts who love a spicier reproduction. I desperately am in search of good a pair, but it seems that the Slovakian factory has a bad quality control. I ordered them three times and every pair had a hair behind the membrane (!!!) creating an unbearable vibration in the lows. Other well done flat closed pair? the AKG K371, Shure SRH940, Beyerdynamic DT250 250 OHM. The first has weak screws on the headband, the second is made of the worst plastic in the world, the third has seal issue on the left cup that create a severe L/R unbalance. So the entry level market of open cans has a hole in it, and the hd6xx have their negative aspects (price in Europe).
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 8:55 AM Post #950 of 2,621
In the hd600 there isn't any peak, they are one of the flattest pair ever made. The hd600 doesn't have any big flaw, their sound is dedicated to mid lovers like me, the stage is just perfect to an intimate listen, the bass is tight and musical but not distracting from the voices. their rhythm is engaging and I can feel an ethereal image floating all around me with an unrivaled sense of presence. The dynamic and the transients are astounding: the wow factor is there. listening to Jonas Kaufmann Verdi Album (one of the best classical voice recording) is a private concert: from the first time the gentle notes are really gentle, and the full volume of his voice has the harmonic complexity of my live experience in front of him; Haken - Virus is presented as intended, a well distinct wall of sound. there are Not reverberations, no fake details, no overdone frequencies. You can't call flaws these wonderful features.

Maybe some find THE masterpiece a little boring, but not me. Music at his intended state is not boring, it's true. HD560s (from oluv's demo comparison against THE queen of flatness) adds fake details and a bigger stage making them more engaging at first. Wow factor reached for a day. Other manufacturer did the same operation in the past: Philips with the shp9500, Audio Technica with a lot of models (while the r70x, being a pro oriented model, seems to have more hd6x0 resemblance), Beyerdynamic with all the dt serie, Sony adding bass until it's too much. I have a good hearing from 20 to 18,500 hz, so I can easily hear lifts from 1,5 db in all frequencies from the standard (hd600).

Oluv measurement and test are pretty accurate. The difference in the mid treble zone, due to the angled drivers, is gigantic for my tastes. The perceived graininess sometimes comes from the lumpiness of that precise region. Yes, you can call it detail.
The extended bass lessen the perceived kick of upper bass and the body of a Baritone voice.
The width of the stage isn't related to the most important aspect of the image (for me): the depth. I prefer to perceive more layers than a super wide image.
But It's me. As a lover of mid to hi-fi I'd prefer to see a more controlled hype. The hd560, like the hd650 and the 58x before, were created to give to the consumers what they wanted, but Sennheiser knows very well that in few days the 560 will be clearly in the 100-140 street price league, just under the x2hr and the dt880, as a non professional, music lover customer oriented because, as Beyerdynamic very well knows, the 4 to 7 khz must be flat or recessed to compensate the concha gain, and the brilliancy for the highs enthusiasts (or old eared people) must be positioned from 8 khz to the end of the hearable. This must be clear to 5 khz sensitive guys who are searching more sparkle/stage/bass than their hd600. There is a model who can do this a lot better than the 560: the AKG K712 pro, ah hidden masterpiece dedicated to hi-fi enthusiasts who love a spicier reproduction. I desperately am in search of good a pair, but it seems that the Slovakian factory has a bad quality control. I ordered them three times and every pair had a hair behind the membrane (!!!) creating an unbearable vibration in the lows. Other well done flat closed pair? the AKG K371, Shure SRH940, Beyerdynamic DT250 250 OHM. The first has weak screws on the headband, the second is made of the worst plastic in the world, the third has seal issue on the left cup that create a severe L/R unbalance. So the entry level market of open cans has a hole in it, and the hd6xx have their negative aspects (price in Europe).

The 5k peak on the 600 is quite clearly there on pretty much every graph you look at in relation to that headphone. It doesn’t bother everyone though, and I suspect you’re one of those people who’s not sensitive to it. This peak was quite offensive to me when I owned the headphone, and I wanted to love the 600. I really liked its other characteristics and it was disappointing to me that I couldn’t keep it.
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 9:05 AM Post #951 of 2,621
So have you listened to the recording of the HD560S in the video, and do you think it accurately displays the relative difference? Does the treble in the recording seem harsh?

If the recording seems harsh to you, but the actual headphone does not, that would be interesting!

Well of course a harsh recording would be another factor.

Did a tiny little test earlier and managed to get a slightly harsh sound (in the highs) listening to just one song: All Saints - Never Ever.

Used a dac/amp which has always been thin sounding and depending on the headphone, uncomfortable in the highs: Fostex HP-P1.

Same song through the Audioquest Dragonfly Red, was just fine (and that's not the absolute smoothest dac I have).

Again, through the RME Adi dac, (which I don't particularly rate as a dac, no problems in the highs).

So hopefully my point is slightly more credible...
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 9:20 AM Post #952 of 2,621
the AKG K712 pro, ah hidden masterpiece dedicated to hi-fi enthusiasts who love a spicier reproduction. I desperately am in search of good a pair, but it seems that the Slovakian factory has a bad quality control. I ordered them three times and every pair had a hair behind the membrane (!!!) creating an unbearable vibration in the lows.
W05OyR0.png

Sure its not just this string and maybe you don't like the lows? :thinking:
Cause mine has that too :p
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 9:34 AM Post #954 of 2,621
The 5k peak on the 600 is quite clearly there on pretty much every graph you look at in relation to that headphone. It doesn’t bother everyone though, and I suspect you’re one of those people who’s not sensitive to it. This peak was quite offensive to me when I owned the headphone, and I wanted to love the 600. I really liked its other characteristics and it was disappointing to me that I couldn’t keep it.
The 5k peak on the 600 is quite clearly there on pretty much every graph you look at in relation to that headphone. It doesn’t bother everyone though, and I suspect you’re one of those people who’s not sensitive to it. This peak was quite offensive to me when I owned the headphone, and I wanted to love the 600. I really liked its other characteristics and it was disappointing to me that I couldn’t keep it.
73C59F65-4D6F-4235-99BF-155E57A4C288.png
73C59F65-4D6F-4235-99BF-155E57A4C288.png

please, can you indicate me the "obvious peak"?
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 9:49 AM Post #955 of 2,621
Here in Europe there are still not many stores with the Hd560s and will be at the same price as the k712 pro. In the opinion of those who have or have had both, which one should I choose for gaming and music?
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 9:53 AM Post #956 of 2,621
Here in Europe there are still not many stores with the Hd560s and will be at the same price as the k712 pro. In the opinion of those who have or have had both, which one should I choose for gaming and music?
I can say that k712 pro is a masterpiece of soundstage, and imaging. One of the best on hearth for gaming and shurely on top of the mid fi league for music. Comfortable and light, an amp is recommended to reach a solid volume. Still good from a good output like macbook pro
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 10:00 AM Post #957 of 2,621
As was said, some people love the 'flat' HD600...some think it has an intolerable '5K peak'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ***

I loved legacy, high-end Beyers and Senns with tubes -- solid state...not so much! With the 6 series cans, I'm fine with solid state but am sure others aren't.

The variety of user reviews/graphs/etc are interesting and can help us guess if we would enjoy a headphone's sound signature. But in the end, the only way you'll really know is by spending time with the cans yourself.

That said, if you find your views aligning consistently with another's, then you can weight their reviews more heavily in your 'guess' and maybe have a few less misses along the journey! :wink:



*** Graph below shows the HD600 peak at 6.5K and the HD650's at 5K...entirely possible the peak placements are why I prefer the 650 (orange) over the 600 (purple). Honestly, though, it doesn't really matter. I just know that I do like them better! :beerchug:

FWIW, the 660S is green...which I also like better than the 600.

1603115139066.png
 
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Oct 19, 2020 at 10:13 AM Post #958 of 2,621
73C59F65-4D6F-4235-99BF-155E57A4C288.png73C59F65-4D6F-4235-99BF-155E57A4C288.png
please, can you indicate me the "obvious peak"?

Come on dude.. Why are you making me point out the obvious? It’s not this dramatic peak, but it’s clearly a small one, and it’s def in the wrong spot. But since you asked:

4F3423BB-C0EC-4B70-9C13-E239178A7C09.jpeg
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 10:23 AM Post #959 of 2,621
So have you listened to the recording of the HD560S in the video, and do you think it accurately displays the relative difference? Does the treble in the recording seem harsh?

If the recording seems harsh to you, but the actual headphone does not, that would be interesting!

Why expect that it is even remotely possible to evaluate the treble quality from a YouTube video when you are hearing the headphones with two layers of EQ? The frequency response change caused by the recording process. And the frequency response change caused by whatever headphones you're using to listen to them?

Plus, this is a quick out of the box impressions. Since we know Oluv loves the Elex, is it any surprise that he might not like the HD560S treble without spending more time with them to get used to them?

Now that Oluv has moved to a patreon model for his full reviews, I personally have less confidence in the reliability of what he puts in these public preview videos.
 
Oct 19, 2020 at 10:57 AM Post #960 of 2,621
Yes and no. You're not really hearing either headphone very well by the time it's shaped by the recording process and then played back through whatever speakers or headphones you're using to listen to it with.

About the only thing its useful for is relative amounts of bass, mids, and treble. But even that's not completely reliable since HD58X and HD560s use different drivers, and one of them is angled. So the HTRF is going to be different with your head with each of them.

Personally, I find frequency response charts more reliable.
Good points.
 

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