[Roller]

Quote:

Ok, so... after browsing here for the last few days, I'm left with a huge question...
 
Why would a set like the AD700's (one jack) provide a better positional audio experience than a set like Psyko Carbon (3 dedicated jacks, which include its own amp).  
I have a thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/640425/advice-new-gaming-sound-setup-from-the-ground-up
 
I'm just trying to figure out what will be the best system from the standpoint of directional precision.  Audio quality, highs/lows is really second consideration to me.

 
If you're looking for the best headphones purely for competitive gaming, where positional cue accuracy is absolutely required, the the AD700 is pretty much the best headphones for that purpose. However, they are very bass light, and won't really provide a satisfactory listening experience for immersive gaming or for anything with present or emphasized bass.
 
EDIT: Like it was pointed out to you on your thread, two quality drivers provide much better sound quality and positional cue accuracy than multiple low quality drivers. Basically, all multi-driver implementations for gaming/surround purposes deliver poor sound quality.

 

[Shisno]

I won't really use this PC for music.  That's what my HTPC and B&O system is for

 

[Roller]

Quote:

I won't really use this PC for music.  That's what my HTPC and B&O system is for

 
Well, like I said previously, the AD700 provide absolutely excellent positional cue accuracy, which makes them great for competitive gaming. If you plan on doing both competitive and immersive gaming, positional cue accuracy might have to be slightly sacrificed.
 
Is competitive gaming alone what you do?

 

[Shisno]

Ok, I guess my internal debate about AMP(O2) and HP's (AD700) is settled.  Now, for sound card...
 
I'm down to two choices (feel free to suggest another card, if it's better for gaming):
 
Titanium HD:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033
 
Sound Blaster Z:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102048
 
I suppose the available option of RCA's on the titanium look appealing to me... but, the Z is a newer release, and quite a bit cheaper.  Is one clearly a better performer than the other?

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Ok, I guess my internal debate about AMP(O2) and HP's (AD700) is settled.  Now, for sound card...
 
I'm down to two choices (feel free to suggest another card, if it's better for gaming):
 
Titanium HD:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033
 
Sound Blaster Z:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102048
 
I suppose the available option of RCA's on the titanium look appealing to me... but, the Z is a newer release, and quite a bit cheaper.  Is one clearly a better performer than the other?

 
For gaming, especially competitive gaming and for improved positional cue accuracy, the Titanium HD is the card to get. It's also going for $109.99 on Amazon.
 
A Titanium HD + O2 + AD700 are basically the best gaming setup you can get for competitive gaming.
 
EDIT: It should also be noted that the base Z series card has lower quality DAC and components when compared to the Titanium HD.

 

[chewy4]

Quote:

 
For gaming, especially competitive gaming and for improved positional cue accuracy, the Titanium HD is the card to get. It's also going for $109.99 on Amazon.
 
A Titanium HD + O2 + AD700 are basically the best gaming setup you can get for competitive gaming.
 
EDIT: It should also be noted that the base Z series card has lower quality DAC and components when compared to the Titanium HD.

Woah, didn't know it was going for that cheap on Amazon. I think I might get one and swap out my STX.
 
Are there any FR measurements of this card though? Is it as flat as the STX? I know people say it has a slight bass emphasis but I think that might just be because of output impedence, I would be using line-out to an external amp.
 
Also, can you use CMSS-3D with line-out or just headphone out?

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Woah, didn't know it was going for that cheap on Amazon. I think I might get one and swap out my STX.
 
Are there any FR measurements of this card though? Is it as flat as the STX? I know people say it has a slight bass emphasis but I think that might just be because of output impedence, I would be using line-out to an external amp.
 
Also, can you use CMSS-3D with line-out or just headphone out?

 
Over the past few days there has been a noticeable price drop on the card, which is great news.
 
It measures similarly to the Essence STX. Noticeable differences between both cards go through the Titanium HD having a neutral signature leaning slightly towards warmth while the Essence STX has a neutral signature leaning towards brightness.
 
CMSS-3D, as well as other processing features, can be used through both line-out and headphone out. If disabled, the signal passes unaltered.

 

[Shisno]

Speaking solely on positional audio, does the AD700 beat the [size=small]ATH-M50?[/size]

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Speaking solely on positional audio, does the AD700 beat the [size=small]ATH-M50?[/size]

 
It blows them out of the water regarding positional cue accuracy.

 

[Shisno]

Thanks for all your help, Roller.  Going with the O2-AD700-TitaniumHD setup.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Thanks for all your help, Roller.  Going with the O2-AD700-TitaniumHD setup.

 
Glad to help.
 
Just remember that the AD700 are mainly geared for competitive gaming, they won't sound nearly as good for immersive gaming.

 

[Shisno]

Got a recommendation for immersion?  I'll likely get both.

 

[chewy4]

Quote:

 
Over the past few days there has been a noticeable price drop on the card, which is great news.
 
It measures similarly to the Essence STX. Noticeable differences between both cards go through the Titanium HD having a neutral signature leaning slightly towards warmth while the Essence STX has a neutral signature leaning towards brightness.
 
CMSS-3D, as well as other processing features, can be used through both line-out and headphone out. If disabled, the signal passes unaltered.

Awesome that they don't restrict your options based on output like Xonar. That'll be convenient.

 

[Evshrug]

Roller,
I actually thought OpenAL (and DS3D) contained the positional cue algorithms.

Which feeds into my comment about the near-death of 3D audio in favor of supporting home theater speaker setups... I assumed nobody was developing games that looked for and utilized OpenAL (and admittedly, I just assumed DS3D too without evidence) because on OpenAL's open source website, the list "all" games with support for the language, and comments in general that audio has been 2D for years. Thief 4 is in development and due for release in the not-distant future, I have to imagine great sound design is still very important to the game, wouldn't it be nice if they really marketed the feature of sound?

Higher audio aspirations are quite possible... As I said, people are growing respect for headphone audio, the consoles are quite old and many gamers are curious about PC Land. Consoles are a good entry into gaming, there's probably a larger population now
The Titanium HD is still $109.99 at the J&R link I posted.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Roller,
I actually thought OpenAL (and DS3D) contained the positional cue algorithms.
Which feeds into my comment about the near-death of 3D audio in favor of supporting home theater speaker setups... I assumed nobody was developing games that looked for and utilized OpenAL (and admittedly, I just assumed DS3D too without evidence) because on OpenAL's open source website, the list "all" games with support for the language, and comments in general that audio has been 2D for years. Thief 4 is in development and due for release in the not-distant future, I have to imagine great sound design is still very important to the game, wouldn't it be nice if they really marketed the feature of sound?
Higher audio aspirations are quite possible... As I said, people are growing respect for headphone audio, the consoles are quite old and many gamers are curious about PC Land. Consoles are a good entry into gaming, there's probably a larger population now
The Titanium HD is still $109.99 at the J&R link I posted.

 
The algorithms are contained within the X-Fi chip, which is why their improvements can't be obtained from other soundcards, be it Creative or otherwise.
 
One reason that contribute to lower positional cue accuracy in games is the whole cross platform development situation, as consoles and mobile devices lack hardware support for the most part, except that most of those devices can use a subset of OpenAL. Honestly, the lack of audio development through OpenAL has to be related to a disagreement between a triangle of software developers, hardware developers and software audio renderer developers.
The main point to take from this is that games should have both audio and video developed through tremendously high performance and high quality libraries, namely OpenAL and OpenGL.
 
The Titanium HD is also at $109.99 on Amazon. Apparently there was a price drop on several retailers.