[TerriblySorry]

Quote:

Originally posted by Redwoood How about a Welsh audio site TerriblySorry ?

Well, I can't speak Welsh anymore - it was beaten out of us at school. Anyone who spoke Welsh ended up with lots of maths homework.

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally posted by lini Why not make both sides happy? I'd prefer English in the already established forums, too, but I guess it wouldn't harm to include the "Babylon Lounge - audio-related discussion in your language" (just made it up).

lini, I think it's very important to restate something I said earlier:

"If you think it's not important for the admin/moderators to know what's being said, consider for a second that moderators would not generally be able to recognize libel, commercial posts and ads, copyright infringement, racial slurs, or even just generally when a thread is getting out of control or off-topic."

And think how many languages there are. In an ideal world, there'd be an auto-translate feature to one's language of choice -- but there's not such a thing currently. It will be highly unlikely that there will ever be an "any langage goes" forum (or forums) at Head-Fi, for reasons of practicality.


Quote:

Originally posted by Tuberoller I am not saying this should be a dual language board but if we got a spot on it for people to leave feedback for trading CDs we can have a small space for foreign members to post in their laungauge.Especially when they are usually just trying to say hello.

Tuberoller, my parents are both from the Philippines, and when speaking to each other they often speak another language (Tagalog). I say this so that it's understood (hopefully) that I'm not insensitive to the language issues.

You mention that creating feedback forums is analogous to creating foreign language forums. It's not. Sure, it wouldn't take any longer to simply put the foreign language forum up. But moderating it.....well, I think I've said enough on this point. There are too many other languages to make this a practical endeavor. Because of this, it's likely not going to happen.


Quote:

Originally posted by TerriblySorry Well, the idea is that everybody has to learn a second language. Shows willing, I think.

Well, to even register and begin to post, at least a very basic grasp of English must be had.

But to restate a point -- I don't know what's being said in a German-speaking forum, whether or not there are any topics within that might interest me, so I choose not to post or read them as an alternative to learning German.

 

[Tuberoller]

Jude,If the idea here was to purge users or members, you have done so.This is a devisive issue on the level of politics and religion.before you make a final descision on this matter I think you should further explore ways to accomodate foreign head-fiers that will not infringe on the usefullness of the boards for english speaking head-fiers.There have been some good suggestions made here,some of them have to be good enough to implement.I only post to two forums, this one and a MARINES family board.I stay away from the ones that take on these issues because it tends to forever taint the atmosphere.Please try to avoid this.

 

[Tuberoller]

I do believe that one of the best things about this forum is the excellent moderation.I know this would not be possible in a foreign language forum attached to the main forums.I think a post attached to the member's lounge would suffice.This is the forum page where members communicate,perhaps posts there could be limited in length and deleted after a week or so.This way you maintain some degree of moderation and extend an olive branch at the same time.

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuberoller Jude,If the idea here was to purge users or members, you have done so.This is a devisive issue on the level of politics and religion.before you make a final descision on this matter I think you should further explore ways to accomodate foreign head-fiers that will not infringe on the usefullness of the boards for english speaking head-fiers.There have been some good suggestions made here,some of them have to be good enough to implement.I only post to two forums, this one and a MARINES family board.I stay away from the ones that take on these issues because it tends to forever taint the atmosphere.Please try to avoid this.

"...purge users or members...."? My opinion is that you're being far too dramatic.

And, yes, I have made a decision on it -- it's not going to happen until a practical solution is presented. It's not practical at this time. You think I do this for a living? Thought through carefully, the concept of simply opening an any-language forum is not that easy.

And still again:

Quote:

"If you think it's not important for the admin/moderators to know what's being said, consider for a second that moderators would not generally be able to recognize libel, commercial posts and ads, copyright infringement, racial slurs, or even just generally when a thread is getting out of control or off-topic."

There are potential liability issues (however small) in running the site and not knowing or understanding what's being posted. I live in the U.S., man, and so do you. Litigious nation. It's a hobby, not my living.

I appreciate that this is one of the two forums you visit, man --it's your choice and I'm glad you made it (I mean this sincerely, as I enjoy your posts). But you're right in that it's choice -- I choose not to go to forums that aren't in English, because I don't understand what's going on. English is the primary language here. I can't moderate what I don't understand. And there are just too many languages to come up with a practical solution to accomodate them all.

I would also like to recall an earlier post by Audio&Me:

Quote:

" I am full blooded Korean and I speak & write the language, however my vocabulary and grammar are very limited. Even if I knew my native language as well as I do english, it still doesn't make sense to be typing away in it @ head-fi. It should be common sense to interact in english as the entire website is clearly in english and do not see any multilingual options, so I figure most everyone here speakers english as their primary language. "

If the practical components of this as I've presented them still don't sit will with you, than we'll continue to disagree on the matter. If I did this for a living, I might be willing to invest more to find other solutions. This place is expensive and time-consuming as it is.

Purge? C'mon, man. It isn't purging any more than I'm purged from forums in languages I don't read and write in.

Am I asking everyone to speak perfect English? No. Hell, I don't speak or write in the Queen's English. Does this mean that users can't use foreign quotes or proverbs, or type anything at all in a foreign language? No. But does it mean that I don't want to see threads like this in Head-Fi until we have a practical means of translating on the fly?

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...&threadid=7509

Yeah, that's what it means. And I don't think it's any more unfair than any other non-English forum and the extent to which I'd feel excluded -- again, I just don't go.

 

[gaineso]

Jude,

You are right on this issue. I'm really sorry that some people think it's devisive or discriminatory in any way.

However, as has been stated several times, the posters who started this issue obviously speak or read English well enough to get into this forum and post and to understand and take offense at your saying they must use English.

They are the ones who are trying to discriminate against the majority of Head-Fi users by posting things they know we can't read. That has no place on this forum, or any other moderated forum.

I think that we all appreciate Joe Lau's wonderful communications with us, even if we have to stop and think fpr a second about what he's trying to say. We, or at least I, am very willing to spend a little time understanding him or any others who have difficulty, as long as they try.

Trying to understand is the most important thing. These posts in Chinese can't even be translated unless we all get new plug-ins to import it in actual Chinese, not some type of symbol computer language that can't be translated.

mumrik speaks of having some command of 3-5 languages, and English is not his first. He probably writes better English than I do, and I've got 60 years experience with English as spoken in the Southern United States. Not the Queen's English.

Am I right that this forum is sponsored, payed for by the 3 companies that have links on the opening page? That looks to me like one New Zealand based company, one Germany based company and one US based company, all of whom communicate with members of this forum in very well written English.

Being originally from South Florida, I know very well what a tremendously devisive issue language can be. We don't need that type of debate or devision here.

We need to listen to the music. That can be in whatever language you want.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by TerriblySorry Well, the idea is that everybody has to learn a second language. Shows willing, I think.

Well, i'm Greek and I was born and raised in the US. What language should i learn now?

 

[gloco]

After reading everyone's post, i thoroughly agree with Jude's stance. For our new found foreign members, buy a Chinese to English dictionary. If i was a Greek citizen and had limited knowledge of the English language i would pick up a Greek to English dictionary and get on with my life.

 

[Tuberoller]

Jude,
Purge is a strong word.I use it not to convey your intentions but the result of this action you have chosen to take.It is your board,the product of your free will and hard work,you make the descisions about the use and direction of your boards.

My opinions are forged from my experiences.When I lived in Germany my wife and I learned to speak German by submersion.As Isolated a community as a U.S. Millitary base can be, frequent excursions are still a must.My wife hated Germany and did not hide it well,but she learned to speak the language and made German friends that we still have.I guess the users of this board will have to do the same and that is not in dispute here.It is worth saying that all the people that we made our friends in Germany at least tried to communicate with us in English.This made our efforts to learn their language worthwhile.

 

[Tides]

Been a lil busy past couple days, didnt see this one thread. ( and the oen in mod forum)

So here it is...

I can fully speak ,write and read Chinese with 100% perfect grammer. ( Mandarin,Cantonese,Taiwanese, also decent in Japanese)

Since I am one of the moderators already, I can watch over the threads if there is a need to.

I read that *unreadable* threads just now, its fine, not problem there.

I have no comment on whether an extra foreign forum is necessary or needed. That is jude 's call.

All I can do is read them

I do have to type back in English since I have not isntall the Chinese keyboard input support ( it is a pain to type in Chinese characters for me... not used to it ..so pretty slow. ABCDEFG is faster

so I am here.... to the Head-Fi rescue~!

Tides

 

[raymondlin]

Tides - 100% perfect grammer? when did you last took a test on it then? I don't think anyone will claim they have 100% perfect grammer in English.

Just pulling your leg.

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

I can fully speak ,write and read Chinese with 100% perfect grammer

Well, as evidenced by your posts, you sure as hell can't make that claim when it comes to the English language.

j/k
Welcome back, Tides.........good to see you're on the case.

 

[jude]

Tides,

You're a busy guy -- sometimes with four to six weeks between posts. This would therefore require teams of moderators (as we have now) to assure that there's regular coverage. And we'd do this for each language? No way. Not right now. We haven't even have time over here (where I work, which is where I tap the talent to add, fix and repair things for Head-Fi) to add the sponsor plaque rotation thingie in each forum yet (a fairly straightforward task), and we've got a couple of new sponsors ready to move once we do. Realistically supporting a multi-language forum properly just isn't, well, realistic, especially when we can't even quickly build the simplest of features due to time constraints (because none of us does this for a living).

While I appreciate your skills in this regard, Tides, there are still way too many other languages to make this doable. So, again, until such a time comes that there's decent, affordable auto-translating available, English will have to be the primary language of Head-Fi.

 

[Onix]

Okay, so I am a foreing user. I speak Spanish and English, and also can read Itallian, Portuguese, French and some German (and Jude, I had a girlfriend from the Phillipines, does that count?). Meus amigos, do I feel excluded when I have to use a foreign language, like English? Well, no, not really. Do I mind if someone posts here in Chinese? No, not really. But I think there has to be some sort of unity in a place like this, and it makes sense for many reasons to use English as Head-Fi primary language.

Why English? Because most of the people with Internet speaks English, at least on a rudimentary level. But that doesn't mean that you can't, from time to time, find a post in another language. There's a guy on Headwize looking for people in Portugal: "procuro headwizers em Portugal". I think its great to see stuff like that, and I thougth the Chinese people here had a blast, finding a new community. But I think they kinda took a step too far. English is the language used for the majority of the members of this community, and having so many posts in a language that most of our computers can't even recognize (I thougth, at first, that all the Chinese posts where a joke or I had a virus) can cause a problem. I mean, how can we interact or give advice if we can't even make the characters people is using?

I can pretty much do something like this: Empezar a escribir todo en español, y la inmensa mayoría de ustedes no sabrían qué onda con este rollo. Some people wouldn't even make the tildes on some characters. And I think that would be very annoying and disrespectful to my fellow Head-fizers.

Of course, I can write something for Rickcr42, and call him "Ricardo", or to Neruda and say "Hola Pablo", or reply to a post by my fellow Mexican Fjhuerta and say something like "¿Qué onda Francisco?". I have called some of you "compadre", "amigo" and said "pendejos" and some other Mexican bad words a couple of times. Some people understand and some doesn't, but I would not send a message entirely on Spanish. Just because I need to interact and English is the best language to do it here.

And hey, the whole point here is to interact. Pravda? Nest ce pa? Of course it is, and it's better to do it in English, even if you can't speak the language. Someone looking for a cd player with optical out could pretty much write something like this: "Help need above discman with ligth out". I can understand his or her point, and perhaps after a few postings we can solve his or her problem, and maybe he'll like us enough to lear English. Does someone has a problem with the use of English here? Well, there are places in German, Itallian, Chinese and Japanese? Go there then and find the help that you need. Care to interact in a broader scale? Come here and give it a try, even if you have to use a dictionary and things don't come out perfectly.

By the way, the title of this posting means: "I think it's my turn to get in".

Peace and remember that the only thing that really separates people is the unwillingness to talk to each other.

 

[Tides]

100% perfect is just a way to make it stronger statement

like if someone ask you..

" Are u happy HAPPY ? "

Jude~I read the forum a lot, jsut havent post as much.. NO NEW TOY does that to you LOL... ( you dont see my name show on the list of main forum because I turned it off to not show)

Like I said before, I have no comment on it, makes no difference to me what you guys do. Just saying that Head Fi wont get bash in Chinese in HeadFi forum and not even know it lmao~

Head-Fi has the Chinese languages(more than one) Protection here

Jude, dl Dayofdefeat v2 !

http://mirror.nuclearfallout.net:113/dod_v20.exe <-- DODv2 dl site ( very fast site)

BTW, there will never be an efficient CHINESE language translator. it is IMPOSSIBLE due to the way the characters put together. There is no A to Z. all English words are from A to Z, no such system with Chinese characters... Each has its own definition and when more than 2 are use together..thre are multi definitions when using with another character... and ANOTHER definition when three are put together.
It is impossible

ones I tried are so horrible lol, totally mess up on the translation