[munchzilla]

is that especially bad in Korea? I think that's something that happens everywhere, perhaps to different degrees.
I like how you have a word for it though 

 
and I think that the work situation seems to be getting to that point almost everywhere in this day and age, unfortunately.
though most european countries have laws preventing people to be forced to work that long hours... and different rules for being fired etc.
would you say this is worse than in japan though? I was under the impression japanese people work a lot of unpaid overtime, more so than Korea.

 

[TwinQY]

  I felt like Vancouver is a super cool technological city, being from Sweden and all... but I hear it's nothing compared to Hong Kong, Tokyo and Seoul. really curious about those places.
 
ever been to Vancouver? I know TwinQY has but not sure if he's been to Seoul! would love a first hand comparison write-up.
 
heard very similar things about Tokyo subway, and well, seen pictures and videos too. it's pretty crazy. I thought Montréal and Vancouver transits were bad... well, Paris was pretty bad too. but NYC subway was almost empty the few times I used it, was a bit surprised.
 
oh and what about Busan? it also looks pretty modern. any fun contrasting things to Seoul there?

Vancouver can''t even hold a candle. It's like comparing one of those tiny cups of frozen yogurt to this. Either three of them can fit the entirety of the Downtown area on their pinkies..
 
A lot more high-rises, modern facilities, in Korea  - but they are relatively similar between the three. I'm coming from China so they're a heck of a lot cleaner as well in comparison. It's crowded, sure, but even the filthy parts are downright spotless in comparison. Then again if you ever go to Tokyo it's nothing (I'd find Beijing to be okay-crowded for my tastes so Seoul is rather pleasant for me)
 
I stayed around Jongno-gu when I first got there last time I visited. The food, oh boy the food. You get all of the classics there.
Then I just wallowed around the countryside for the most part - have to say, even their countryside is far more pleasant than the land of dirt China. Everything is just cleaner. They just simply care more about cleanliness. I mentioned this to a Korean and he was amused. He should really go to Beijing some time and see what I'm referring to.
 
If you want to talk about the culture - they're just intense about everything, even by Asian standards. Life, work, entertainment. Very much an enjoyable perspective, but half the time you don't really notice it unless you try.
 
Oh Vancouver transits are so tame it's not even funny. I mean half of the people on the buses will get seats 80% of the time that's tame right there. I never got how people would refer to it as a "big city", it's more or less a very "expansive" suburb.
 
The first thing that came to mind when you mentioned Busan was for you to watch Answer 1997 to get a hang of their accent.
 

  I feel a bit the same when I take the "Skytrain" (subway) in Vancouver, it's fun just riding because of the views you get! the Montréal metro is all underground and really boring. plus it smells funny... 

 
I am not sure I know what a department store is yet, but that sounds pretty cool. I almost got lost in a shopping mall the first time I went to Metrotown in Burnaby, just by Vancouver. not something I like to talk about... 

(just kidding, but that mall is huge!)
 
night walks are one of my favourite things as well, walking around downtown in Vancouver is a really strong memory.
I talk too much about Vancouver... but I really like that place.

It does smell funny. I'm not sure what you guys do down there, I mean I saw plenty of washrooms on the surface.
 
Metro is puny compared to the malls in Seoul. I'm not one for shopping - but Myeong-dong would drive a person insane.
 
Nightlife does not exist in Vancouver by comparison, since most things worthwhile closes down way before midnight. I can maybe stay in a hotpot store till 2 but the Skytrain closes a short while before that.
 

OMG. Those are some seriously old songs. 95% of Koreans probably don't remember them. I personally don't(I was too young when these songs were popular) know much about these songs, but I've heard them before.

I'd be a bit lost if you went into the 80's stuff - I can do 90's to current and still feel nostalgic but the 80's stuff I only get from an archival perspective. Still good stuff, just not my stuff.

 

[munchzilla]

  Vancouver can''t even hold a candle. It's like comparing one of those tiny cups of frozen yogurt to this. Either three of them can fit the entirety of the Downtown area on their pinkies..
 
A lot more high-rises, modern facilities, in Korea  - but they are relatively similar between the three. I'm coming from China so they're a heck of a lot cleaner as well in comparison. It's crowded, sure, but even the filthy parts are downright spotless in comparison. Then again if you ever go to Tokyo it's nothing (I'd find Beijing to be okay-crowded for my tastes so Seoul is rather pleasant for me)
 
I stayed around Jongno-gu when I first got there last time I visited. The food, oh boy the food. You get all of the classics there.
Then I just wallowed around the countryside for the most part - have to say, even their countryside is far more pleasant than the land of dirt China. Everything is just cleaner. They just simply care more about cleanliness. I mentioned this to a Korean and he was amused. He should really go to Beijing some time and see what I'm referring to.
 
If you want to talk about the culture - they're just intense about everything, even by Asian standards. Life, work, entertainment. Very much an enjoyable perspective, but half the time you don't really notice it unless you try.
 
Oh Vancouver transits are so tame it's not even funny. I mean half of the people on the buses will get seats 80% of the time that's tame right there. I never got how people would refer to it as a "big city", it's more or less a very "expansive" suburb.
 
The first thing that came to mind when you mentioned Busan was for you to watch Answer 1997 to get a hang of their accent.
 
It does smell funny. I'm not sure what you guys do down there, I mean I saw plenty of washrooms on the surface.
 
Metro is puny compared to the malls in Seoul. I'm not one for shopping - but Myeong-dong would drive a person insane.
 
Nightlife does not exist in Vancouver by comparison, since most things worthwhile closes down way before midnight. I can maybe stay in a hotpot store till 2 but the Skytrain closes a short while before that.
 
I'd be a bit lost if you went into the 80's stuff - I can do 90's to current and still feel nostalgic but the 80's stuff I only get from an archival perspective. Still good stuff, just not my stuff.

 
heh, yeah, I suspected I'd get that as an answer. 

 I find Vancouver to be of nice size if anything. it feels more concentrated than Montréal. everything's so spread out here, and it's mostly residential areas... not that Vancouver isn't a lot of that either but it feels like there's a lot more in a smaller area. and it also just feels a lot more open than Montreal somehow.
 
and yeah, I'm from a town of 100k people in Sweden, not a lot of people there. my references are not that great.
there's been a few times where I could barely get in on the Skytrain though, so I think there are some times where it does get very crowded... perhaps still not close. one day I shall find out.
 
I personally am not one for crazy nightlife, I'd rather go to some nice restaurant and order some plate and a drink and just sit down in a more quiet environment. I found that to be more than satisfying in Vancouver. and I can't imagine it being less so in Seoul.
 
really having a hard time imagining something *a lot* bigger than Metrotown... not much of a shopper myself either but it's just kind of nice to walk around in there, though the food court was a bit disappointing. Aberdeen Centre on the other hand... some fun shops too.
 
and yeah I really don't know what Montreal people do to those poor metro stations. I suspect it's the alcoholics that have no shame but seeing how some of the partying students act... not so sure. 

 

[jonyoo]

  is that especially bad in Korea? I think that's something that happens everywhere, perhaps to different degrees.
I like how you have a word for it though 

 
and I think that the work situation seems to be getting to that point almost everywhere in this day and age, unfortunately.
though most european countries have laws preventing people to be forced to work that long hours... and different rules for being fired etc.
would you say this is worse than in japan though? I was under the impression japanese people work a lot of unpaid overtime, more so than Korea.

 
From what I know, Japan has a similar society. It's all because of the stupid Confucianism. I mean some of it is good stuff to go by but other things are taken to the extreme and it just becomes ridiculous. I think it's cause Korea is so small and it has no natural resources. The people are it's natural resource lol. Oh man I could write a book if I were to complain about Korea. The only place where you can see politicians fist fight at a formal conference lol. I mean every country has their own problem but the reason I get all this angst up about Korea is because the people here think that this place is the best place to live in the world when they haven't set a foot outside. There's a reason why people who go to the States, Europe, Australia, or Canada and don't want to return lol. Again I'm being very general here.

 

[kimvictor]

   
Oh...one of the things I don't like is the "noonchi culture." It's very inefficient and makes room for a lot of misunderstanding. I like things more direct. Especially in the workplace. For example, I get a annual leave of 4 days total at my workplace (which I also am not very happy with. 4 days out of a whole year is ridiculous) but I can't have my vacation because my superior didn't use it. My superior can't use his vacation because his superior didn't and so on. You can still have your vacation but this comes across as being ill-mannered and not wanting to work at your company anymore and couldn't care less if you're fired or not. Korea has laws on pay for working overtime but I haven't seen a single company implement it except for big companies since they have an international reputation to maintain. And there's nothing normal employees can do about it since the employment competition is so great here in Korea. There are always people willing to work for less money. If you like working under that noonchi and like long hours with little pay then Korea is the place for you lol. Unless of course you're at an executive position at a company like Samsung, LG, CJ or something like that. Then you get ridiculously good pay but then most people at that position are all in their 50s. The gap is way too big. What Korean firms want is a workaholic who is willing to submit your whole being. I'm not willing to do that. Btw I'm being very general here.

 
Ohh. One of those Korean social structure. I personally hate it too.

 

[munchzilla]

   
From what I know, Japan has a similar society. It's all because of the stupid Confucianism. I mean some of it is good stuff to go by but other things are taken to the extreme and it just becomes ridiculous. I think it's cause Korea is so small and it has no natural resources. The people are it's natural resource lol. Oh man I could write a book if I were to complain about Korea. The only place where you can see politicians fist fight at a formal conference lol. I mean every country has their own problem but the reason I get all this angst up about Korea is because the people here think that this place is the best place to live in the world when they haven't set a foot outside. There's a reason why people who go to the States, Europe, Australia, or Canada and don't want to return lol. Again I'm being very general here.

 
yeah, makes a lot of sense. though I haven't experienced this first hand but it's interesting to hear about it.
but it's also very common for many countries to have people firmly believing it's the best when not having been outside of it, I know a lot of people like that back in Sweden.
although I can't really say Sweden is bad in any way, it is a quite nice country. bit boring compared to Canada (IMO, of course) but great/easy to live in.
 
it does kind of bother me that this sort of thing happens though, I think travelling and visiting other countries with very different cultures is one of the best things you can do!
I think, IME, that in Europe, this mentality is a bit more common than over here in Canada. I know a lot of people here who like to travel and have plans to work abroad. a lot more than in Sweden at least.

 

[TwinQY]

A real classic.

 

[munchzilla]

definitely not something I am very familiar with but:

 
this song is too catchy and has the best lyrics ever.
need more music like this!

 

[kimvictor]

How do you guys know that songs that even most Koreans don't know? I'm really impressed.

 

[TwinQY]

Well depends on the person, really.
A lot of the Koreans I know have got this stuff by heart.  Of course, they belong to the embittered first-gen immigrated crowd.
The other half, yeah, it's Gee Gee Gee Gee Mr Mr Mr I WANT U BACK U BACK FANTASTIC BABY all the way. Or some mainstream indie load.

 

[kimvictor]

  Well depends on the person, really.
A lot of the Koreans I know have got this stuff by heart.  Of course, they belong to the embittered first-gen immigrated crowd.
The other half, yeah, it's Gee Gee Gee Gee Mr Mr Mr I WANT U BACK U BACK FANTASTIC BABY all the way. Or some mainstream indie load.

 
Lol. Mainstream indie's not bad though. I like the new album by Busker Busker. MQS files are available as well!

 

[TwinQY]

I dunno. There's a ton of nice lo-fi indie in Korea, and that's where I really think they've hit their stride. They're doing great stuff musically, lyrically, experimenting with nice stuff. And they have their distinct hook as well.
 
Stuff like 전자양 - now that's the shizzle. 

Busker Busker - well, they've managed to corner the disenfranchised by being ridiculously accessible (to the point where it gets to be generic and bland)  but yet managing to retain "hipster cred" in the eyes of the masses at the same time. They're not bad mind you - they just sound a lot like most "okay" band out there.
 
But, hey, I like "okay" bands. Nothing wrong with an "okay" band now and then. Sometimes I go to concerts and buy an "okay" band's CD out of niceness. Nothing wrong with that - the wallet says otherwise though.
 
I didn't really like any of their new songs - actually, that's putting it nicely, I thought they were total snoozefest dreck -  but I have schiit taste anyways.

 

[munchzilla]

hmm I have to listen to some of that stuff in a bit.
I love lo-fi indie "shoegaze" or whatever it's called, please do recommend me some if there is any!

 

[TwinQY]

Can't think of much off the top of my head - but Loro's is a big one. You've probably heard of them.

 
I mentioned Vidulgi OoyoO before, more post-rock though...
 
And Underwear Band was also mentioned, I think - bombastic and rhythmic enough to at least get a mention alongside shoegaze, though it really isn't.
 
Actually, since I've departed so much from shoegaze, hope you won't mind if I do all-out alt/post.





 
Yeah, these are pretty mainstream ones and I wouldn't bother posting it usually - but I guess people here haven't heard of them...?

 

[kimvictor]

Wow. Those are mainstream? I've never heard any of them.