[citadel]

Quote:

 
How can you tell which is accurate? What is your reference?

 
Very good question. I dont think I personally have a 'ground truth' reference. Personally, It would be from prior experience (as an amateur musician and live gig/orchestra patron) of how instruments 'should' or tend to sound. Obviously not the best method. Im sure there are other more empirical measures one could use. Many people cite simple headphone measure as neutrality, low distortion, etc...Anyone with other ideas?
 
The one thing I know is that a lot of headphones cannot adequately replicate the dynamics of live music. This is what the Abyss does extremely well, IMO.

 

[VisceriousZERO]

I just plugged in the Abyss to a Fiio X3-Fiio Montblanc setup and it was driving the cans very well even at low gain. Weird.

 

[Golfnutz]

Quote:

 
 
I don't think he called anyone dumb or lacked experience-- he said they lacked hands-on experience with the abyss.

I see your point, but I didn't read where it said "with the abyss". The previous post included comments of 'stats vs. non-stats' and that how I read it, since his reply seemed like a generalized statement (the general population wouldn't have hands-on experience with either the Abyss or SR-009).
 
I don't think it really matters anyway. The point of the Playback remarks was that the SR-009 are arguably the best current production headphones available today, and the goal of Abyss is to become that. Basically, they only consider the SR-009 to be their main competition at this level. So why wouldn't anyone want to read about the comparisons. Why did Tyll compare them, or any of the other professional reviewers.

 

[purrin]

Purrin, not everyone is as dumb or lacks the experience you think they do. I suppose what Chris Martens wrote in Playback doesn't mean anything then...
 
"The mission of the AB-1266 is a daunting one; namely, to meet or beat the performance of Stax’s incredibly good SR-009 electrostatic headphone in every respect, but in a format that is much simpler to drive than an electrostat can be. Are we there yet? Time will tell, but the AB-1266 certain sounded promising".

 
 
Quote:

I see your point, but I didn't read where it said "with the abyss". The previous post included comments of 'stats vs. non-stats' and that how I read it, since his reply seemed like a generalized statement (the general population wouldn't have hands-on experience with either the Abyss or SR-009).
 
I don't think it really matters anyway. The point of the Playback remarks was that the SR-009 are arguably the best current production headphones available today, and the goal of Abyss is to become that. Basically, they only consider the SR-009 to be their main competition at this level. So why wouldn't anyone want to read about the comparisons. Why did Tyll compare them, or any of the other professional reviewers.

 
You are correct. It was intended as a generalized statement about how the general population hadn't had hands-on experience with these two (Abyss and 009) and also other TOTL headphones. I never said people were dumb and I apologize if you took the statement as I think you are dumb. However I do feel that people who are conjecturing about headphones they haven't heard are doing a disservice to HF by further lowering the already low signal-to-noise ratio here. So yeah, in that sense, people are that dumb.
 
I don't know how Chris Martin plays into this, I haven't read his stuff, nor do I care about what he has to say. (He's a journalist who probably doesn't own any of this stuff, much less live and breath it.) Personally, I think the SR-007mk1 from the right amp (DIY T2, BHSE, LL2, Electra) is arguably better than the SR-009. Muppetface and many longtime 'stat aficionados I know also prefer the 007mk1 to the 009. Although your point about the 009 actually being in production is a good one, but it's a straw-man argument against the point I was trying to make.
 
Keep in mind that there are a lot folks who just do not care for the sound of electrostatics, and of the STAX sound in particular. As someone else mentioned, comparing an ortho against a 'stat is perhaps not the most appropriate because their presentations are so different. What's surprising is that there are not more comparisons of the Abyss to dynamics, i.e. HD800, TH900, or to other orthos, i.e. LCD3, HE-6, HE-5, etc. A comparison to these other headphones is just as valid and perhaps even more informative than a comparison to the SR-009*. There is a small legion of hard core ortho-guys who are looking at the Abyss and saying: "Wow, a near-critically damped ortho!" (this is a big deal - the ortho holy grail - if you are not aware of the consequences of such.)
 
 
*Especially true since the "Abyss vs. SR-009" thing has always seemed to be more a matter of e-peening and possibly bruised egos on the part of SR-009 owners who have probably identified themselves too much with it. All because some a few people have opined that the Abyss is a better headphone.

 

[rgs9200m]

I think I started the stat vs. non-stat issue here, and it's just that, when I want gripping realism where I can't read or concentrate on anything else when listening,
I turn to my 009s + 007t-ii amp. When I want a more mellow, fuzzy musical experience that lets my mind wander, I turn to my LCD3s or TH900s with my Pinnacle amp.
 
Which is better or more musical or absorbing or compelling? I don't know, it depends on what day it is.
 
So I wouldn't expect any mag/planars or dynamics to do the stat thing, and I wouldn't want them to. It would violate some sort of natural law of sound reproduction.
Vanilla is Vanilla and Chocolate is Chocolate, period.

 

[Golfnutz]

[size=11pt]*^^ That’s where I think your wrong. As a SR-009 owner, I wouldn’t have an issue with selling everything and purchasing something non Stat related, if I felt it was better. Problem is, I consider myself a power user, someone who listens to their system 8-10 a day, 5 days a week. One of the reasons I sold my LCD’s and HD800 is because over an extended period of time they didn’t give me the satisfaction I was looking for. I can honestly say the SR-009/BHSE/MSB combo gives me that, and with absolutely no fatigue (now even more satisfaction with the EL34PH tubes).  To me, I think it’s important to find out how the Abyss affects someone using them 50-60 hours per week, for the next 6 months. How would they stand up to the SR-009 then, or should they be considered a fun headphone and shouldn’t be used for these extended periods. For example, would the bass become too much.[/size]

 

[sachu]

buy it, buy an amp to go with it and try it out and let us know. 

 

[Golfnutz]

Quote:

buy it, buy an amp to go with it and try it out and let us know. 

Too risky at this point, considering all the negative comments.

 

[Radio_head]

 

[ultrabike]

Quote:

I think I started the stat vs. non-stat issue here, and it's just that, when I want gripping realism where I can't read or concentrate on anything else when listening,
I turn to my 009s + 007t-ii amp. When I want a more mellow, fuzzy musical experience that lets my mind wander, I turn to my LCD3s or TH900s with my Pinnacle amp.
 
Which is better or more musical or absorbing or compelling? I don't know, it depends on what day it is.
 
So I wouldn't expect any mag/planars or dynamics to do the stat thing, and I wouldn't want them to. It would violate some sort of natural law of sound reproduction.
Vanilla is Vanilla and Chocolate is Chocolate, period.

 
Planars and stats are more limited in the available choices, perhaps for practical reasons. Orthos tend to be heavy and some maybe current hungry, Stats need a mega Volt amp. Sonically they are not perfect. IMO, there is no perfect headphone or the one headphone (stat or else) to rule them all. There are "better" ones depending on priorities... Neutral FR? Little mids or highs emphasis? Easy drive? Amp pairing? Low distortion overall? Lowest distortion in the bass area? Lowest distortion in the treble? Extended bass? Extended treble? Smooth treble?
 
IMO different technologies do have their strengths and weaknesses. But I'm all for the wider availability of options, and more importantly, for the further development and improvement of any particular technology.
 
Quote:

[size=11pt]*^^ That’s where I think your wrong. As a SR-009 owner, I wouldn’t have an issue with selling everything and purchasing something non Stat related, if I felt it was better. Problem is, I consider myself a power user, someone who listens to their system 8-10 a day, 5 days a week. One of the reasons I sold my LCD’s and HD800 is because over an extended period of time they didn’t give me the satisfaction I was looking for. I can honestly say the SR-009/BHSE/MSB combo gives me that, and with absolutely no fatigue (now even more satisfaction with the EL34PH tubes).  To me, I think it’s important to find out how the Abyss affects someone using them 50-60 hours per week, for the next 6 months. How would they stand up to the SR-009 then, or should they be considered a fun headphone and shouldn’t be used for these extended periods. For example, would the bass become too much.[/size]

 
The bass is not too much. I don't think you will have fatigue issues with the Abyss.

 

[purrin]

Abyss vs. SR-009: some things are better, some things are worse. Transducers are tough thing because there are always compromises from one design to the next. What compromises are you willing to live with? What are your sonic priorities? For example, I've built various speakers, from more traditional multi-way crossover low efficiency designs, to high-efficiency compression driver / horns mated to large woofers, to high-efficiency back-loaded horns with wide-banders which I've settled on now. The wide-banders I use now do some horrible things. But they are also extremely good at others. It's not going to be any different between the Abyss and 009.
 
My own experience has been similar to yours except with a twist: Had HD800. Had LCD3. Had SR009. None of them I found sufficiently satisfying. BTW, I've finally read Mr. Martins article and I particularly agree with his assessment that the 009 does not "equal the Abyss in terms of sheer accuracy of tonal balance" and that the "Abyss captures both large ... dynamic contrasts with greater impact." You may however disagree and feel for example that the 009's tonal balance is perfect or that it's dynamic impact is good enough for your tastes. 
 
I'd say if you are satisfied where you are at now, you should stick to where you are at considering the money and time already spent on dedicated 'stat amps, tweaks, e.g. tubes, etc. unless you have money to blow, in which you should consider starting a second setup. All this keeping in mind that desire is like an emaciated creature with a huge stomach and an extremely small esophagus: always hungry.
 
The Abyss is accessible at various dealers throughout the world. You should bring your own DAC to minimize variables and give it a listen. Most dealers are pretty cool about stuff like that if you are serious. Folks on go can on and on about the differences between the 009 and the Abyss, but ultimately only you can decide what is best for you.

 

[Dubstep Girl]

Lol so true

 

[mwilson]

Kids? Is this the best you could come up with?
 
Quote:

 

[Radio_head]

No.  But my plan has worked!  Noticed you weren't around much lately - and of course, that must be due to not needing to post since all my jokes are up to a cretin certain standard.  Thus, I planned for months the perfect joke to let you down, cause you to come out of hibernation and post about your disappointment in the quality of my punchline.  Next bad joke is scheduled for January 1st and involves a pie chart that determines once and for all what percentage of MH's posts involve him linking back to his LCD-2 vs LCD-3 impressions.

 

[purrin]

Actually what would more interesting is a timeline of MH's headphone audio journey indicating gear along with a selection quotes of such gear. I would pay $50 for that.