[mammal]

@mammal , I will be interested in seeing what tubes you try with the Riviera. I just bought a slightly used AIC-10 from @F208Frank . Love it with my Phi (pre CC even).

Noice, congrats on a fantastic amp! Not sure which tubes I will go for, as I originally wanted to get an amp that I do not have to tube roll. Like many, for me the sound is more important than technology, so I wasn't buying a tube amp for sake of owning tubes. I wanted an amp (could have been solid state) that I enjoy the sound of, so Viva and Riviera were my choices for their reputation, rather than they are tubes, if that makes sense. Of course, once I get familiar with the sound (a couple of weeks at least) I may end up consulting tube elders, to see how I could take some aspect of the amp further (could be resolution, tonality, whatnot, I don't know yet).

Also, word is, speaker taps out of Riviera is better with Abyss. HP out has some extra resistor. I'll be trying that eventually, once I can swing a JPS Soperconductor speaker tap adapter..

Similarly to my previous comment, maybe I like the extra resistor in the audio path, I really cannot tell. I don't see myself getting an adapter to be honest, as I have gone that route before (Hugo TT 2) and even though it changed the sound, it was very slight difference. Perhaps taps will sound better, I really don't know, but I think I will wait until some other headfier wants to visit me, have a nice dinner, chat about audio, and as a bonus, brings said tap adapter, haha. The thing is that Riviera, in the configuration I listened to, just hit it for me, exactly what I was after for a while. I don't want to say never, as I will eat my words most likely, but the tap adapter is definitely after I try to refine the sound with some tubes or a headphone cable (Superconductor most likely). If I really wanted "absolute transparency, the least amount of resistors" I would have gone for AFC-10, which does not even have a volume knob (I can always use Bartok's).

Will you be getting the new AIC-10 Bal? Balanced version is new on their website.

Like yourself, I am buying used from a headfier. When I asked around for Riviera balanced, people told me that it is just for convienence, exactly like with Viva (mark 2) which has XLR ins. Please correct me if I am wrong and there is more to Riviera's XLR inputs. The thing is, I SHOULD be using XLRs, as dCS claims that their DACs sound better from XLR compared to RCAs. I don't know how much truth there is to it, as I have tried Viva via RCA or XLR and they sound identical to me. It could be that Viva is ignoring pin 3 (that's how it "adapts" balanced/differential to single ended, as the amp is internally single ended), and if my amp was truly balanced (like WA33) Bartok would really sound better out of XLR than RCA - that's why I did not mind buying Riviera without balanced inputs.

Worth reiterating that I have been looking for a "perfect" (to me) headphone system for a couple of months, tried different headphones, dacs, amps and to my ears 1266 + Bartok + Riviera just sounded right for mids, and 1266 + Bartok for EDM (Viva is better, but not by more than 10-20% and I cannot swing the cash for owning both amps at the same time). Further refinements are of course possible, adding Rossini Master Clock, or even upgrading DAC to Rossini (but loosing its headphone amp). Maybe if I end up using Riviera amp for everything (including EDM), maybe then it will make sense to upgrade Bartok and lose its headphone amp, but I don't see myself doing that in the near future. The Rossini Clock is more for a curiosity and I have proven to myself, that there is a limit to what I am willing to pay for an audio equipment (personal ceiling), the example being returning Viva, even if it made EDM sound better than Riviera or Bartok itself.

 

[slefr]

@Gadget67 @slefr just wanted to let you know that Viva sent me new driver tubes and all the hum is gone now. At no volume knob position I hear any hum coming out of any headphone, pitch black now. What a rollecestor (first patina on 845, then driver tubes going bad), but Viva and their dealer have some amazing customer service, all resolved in the matter of days (as fast as shipping allowed).

That‘s good to know, I was sure it had nothing to do with the amplifier by itself.

I have enjoyed reading your comparison between the Viva and the Riviera. I‘m not surprised by your findings.
I told you that the Viva would not improve the mids of the 1266 to the point they are put forward and less sterile.

how is the bass with the Riviera compared to the Viva ? I would imagine it is more rounded as the Riviera is supposed to sound more tubey than the Viva.

 

[mammal]

I told you that the Viva would not improve the mids of the 1266 to the point they are put forward and less sterile.

You were right, I should have listened, haha.

how is the bass with the Riviera compared to the Viva ? I would imagine it is more rounded as the Riviera is supposed to sound more tubey than the Viva.

My first two tube amps ever are Viva (SET) and Riviera (which is hybrid), so I am not akin to know what "tubey" really sounds like. But from reading about others' experiences with tube amplifiers, what I believe they refer to as tubey is what you describe here. And there, yes, Riviera is definitely more "tubey" to my ears. I was worried that Riviera would lose resolution/articulation in the bass, but it does not. It sounds meatier to my ears, where as Viva is much more "sharp", not in a bright sense, but in how fast it starts/stops, so I guess note decay is the term? I also wonder, what does change mids more, Riviera or a Superconductor? I am guessing amplifier has more effect on sound than a cable, but I won't know until I directly compare.

 

[SuperBurrito]

Worth reiterating that I have been looking for a "perfect" (to me) headphone system for a couple of months, tried different headphones, dacs, amps and to my ears 1266 + Bartok + Riviera just sounded right for mids,

I think you meant Susvara for the mids?

 

[slefr]

You were right, I should have listened, haha.


My first two tube amps ever are Viva (SET) and Riviera (which is hybrid), so I am not akin to know what "tubey" really sounds like. But from reading about others' experiences with tube amplifiers, what I believe they refer to as tubey is what you describe here. And there, yes, Riviera is definitely more "tubey" to my ears. I was worried that Riviera would lose resolution/articulation in the bass, but it does not. It sounds meatier to my ears, where as Viva is much more "sharp", not in a bright sense, but in how fast it starts/stops, so I guess note decay is the term? I also wonder, what does change mids more, Riviera or a Superconductor? I am guessing amplifier has more effect on sound than a cable, but I won't know until I directly compare.

you have well understood what I meant by tubey. the Viva 845 is sharp, straight and neutral, not having this limpness that some tube amplifiers are know for which can be detrimental to transients or punchy bass. The Raal SR1a which is a SS amplifier sounds more tubey than the Viva but not to the point of having the drawbacks just mentioned.

I have not tried yet the SC and I find crazy to put this price on a cable but that’s just me…
I prefer to put my money on other pieces of equipment like amplifiers or Dac

 

[mammal]

I think you meant Susvara for the mids?

I had Susvara 2 weeks for home demo, I returned it today. I like Bartok => Riviera => 1266 better for everything, including mids. Susvara was better for mids out of Bartok => Viva, but I did not like it for the rest, so off it went. Riviera to my ears changes 1266 a lot, and that is even without the Superconductor cable (which I only had for Diana V2, not 1266). I would definitely not call it as transparent as Viva, but for me, Viva only worked for EDM where it highlighted what 1266 already does well. I know everyone likes Susvara more on mids, I get that, I did too.

I have not yet tried the SC as I find crazy to put this price on a cable but that’s just me…

For Diana the cable is much cheaper, especially if you ask them not to include the stock cable, so it was just a 1k upgrade and I went with it. I did not like the cable for its ergonomics (two separate cables), but I know some others fix it with a velcro/ductape or they even braid it together. With Diana, I did not really hear any difference (I had the stock cable on the demo unit I was testing for a whole month) and the difference in cables was very subtle, so I assumed it would be the same with 1266, but maybe I am wrong.

you have well understood what I meant by tubey. the Viva 845 is sharp, straight and neutral, not having this limpness that some tube amplifiers are know for which can be detrimental to transients or punchy bass. The Raal SR1a which is a SS amplifier sounds more tubey than the Viva but not to the point of having the drawbacks just mentioned.

Sounds like you have tried all 3 then, Viva, Riviera and Raal. Would you be able to rank them in terms of "transparency" and "tubey"? We already agree on Viva > Riviera on transparency, and Riviera > Viva for tubey, I just wonder where would you put Raal's amp in these two categories. Thanks!

 

[DJJEZ]

Here is what I did.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-16303389

Simple twist and Velcro tape to make the splitter.

Really like how you twisted the cable as well

 

[slefr]

Sounds like you have tried all 3 then, Viva, Riviera and Raal. Would you be able to rank them in terms of "transparency" and "tubey"? We already agree on Viva > Riviera on transparency, and Riviera > Viva for tubey, I just wonder where would you put Raal's amp in these two categories. Thanks!

Sorry but I have only listened to the Riviera a few minutes years ago so I can’t rank it among the two other amps.
But from a good friend‘s comments which had more time with both the Viva and Riviera, I would say that the Riviera is closer to the Raal than to the Viva.
But take it as a guess still.

 

[littlej0e]

At long last… The eagle has landed…

The difference between these and the SR1a’s is quite interesting. I haven’t got a lot of time to listen to listen yet though.

 

[Ciggavelli]

At long last… The eagle has landed…

The difference between these and the SR1a’s is quite interesting. I haven’t got a lot of time to listen to listen yet though.

Nice! I look forward to your impressions

 

[jlbrach]

At long last… The eagle has landed…

The difference between these and the SR1a’s is quite interesting. I haven’t got a lot of time to listen to listen yet though.

yes, an entirely different animal....takes time to adjust to one after listening to the other...both spectacular

 

[TheMiddleSky]

also wonder, what does change mids more, Riviera or a Superconductor? I am guessing amplifier has more effect on sound than a cable, but I won't know until I directly compare.

I'm familiar with SC, but haven't tried Riviera myself.

I do believe Riviera changes the character of your 1266 more than SC, and not by small margin, because SC is not about changing the 1266 character, but more about refinement and bigger imaging (as bonus, produce a little sweeter vocal, but only slight). Same also happen with SC for Diana, it doesn't transform Diana's character to something else.

 

[mammal]

I'm familiar with SC, but haven't tried Riviera myself.

I do believe Riviera changes the character of your 1266 more than SC, and not by small margin, because SC is not about changing the 1266 character, but more about refinement and bigger imaging (as bonus, produce a little sweeter vocal, but only slight). Same also happen with SC for Diana, it doesn't transform Diana's character to something else.

This is extremely useful, thank you!

 

[BPED]

Viva Egoista 845 vs Riviera AIC-10 headphone amplifiers

Thanks to a fellow head-fier, who brought his Riviera AIC-10 to my house, I was able to compare it to Viva Egoista 845 and I must say that I am impressed. I will go into more detail once I acquire my own, BUT I can already say, that AIC-10 is what I was looking for in an amp pairing, hence I made a contractual commitment to buy one.



dCS Bartók and Viva Egoista 845

Bartok has very detailed, transparent and neutral SS amplifier, capable of driving AB-1266 with more authority, than as twice as powerful Hugo TT 2 (out of its rear XLRs). Adding Viva to it, makes it more technically impressive - bass tightens up and is more controlled/articulate/layered, the resolution and detail retrieval improves further, and soundstage becomes more holographic as well. I would call these improvements (for AB-1266) anywhere between 10-20% over what I get direct out of Bartok. Worth the 12'500 EUR price? Well, no, not really. However, if your DAC does not have a capable headphone out (Bartok certainly does), I would definitely recommend Viva to you, as it is the most transparent headphone amplifier I have heard. If you are curious how it changes Susvara, which needs more power than 1266, then guess - it does exactly what it did to 1266, it improves its technicalities, and that's it. If you are happy with the way your headphones sound already, you just want to take it a level or two higher, for sure get Viva!

What I am trying to achieve

Some of you may know what sound signature I am after (if you read my other impressions in my signature), and that I like Valkyria for its meaty mids, which gives me a wonderful experience with pianos and strings. BUT the best mids I have ever heard were Sennheiser HE-1, those were to die for, especially because they were presented in such an intimate way. Because of this, I have been toying with the idea of getting myself a second pair of headphones. I tried Focal Utopia, Hifiman Susvara and Spirit Torino Valkyria, but for EDM, I was always coming back to AB-1266. How can I achieve HE-1's mids with 1266? Is that even possible? I did not like Utopia's bass (not detailed/layered enough), I did not like Susvara's build quality and the stock cable (can be replaced of course), and with Valkyria, the design is over the top (and price is quite steep). What I am trying to say here, is that I always kept coming back to 1266, even if it was flawed in the mids. People told me about Superconductor cable, and I am definitely considering it.

Riviera AIC-10

BUT, I am happy to say, Riviera AIC-10 (to my ears) makes mids sound like they did on HE-1 (comparing from memory of course, so take this with a grain of salt). AIC-10 is not as transparent as Viva, and it does change the presentation. What impressed me with Riviera was how "meaty" the mids became, so so so different from stock 1266. If I could record them for you (just the mids), I don't think you would recognise them, nor attribute them to 1266. They keep the resolution 1266 is known for, but singer is no longer singing from a hallway, but in front of you in a small club, with very little reverb. This is exactly what I remember from HE-1, the intimacy of mids. As opposed to Viva, which made V/U shape just sound more prominent, Riviera changes that presentation to more neutral/natural way. I knew a presentation like this is possible by "just get a tube amp", but I was worried that a tube amp of this sort would loose its resolution and bass precision, well, Riviera does not sound as sharp as Viva, but it still is refined and well defined, but again, I come to the same conclusion - it is meatier.

Music pairing

If you ask me, Viva Egoista 845 and Riviera AIC-10 do sound different, and the pairing will depend on what you want to achieve (or fix in my case). If you like how your source chain sounds, and the headphones you own are perfect to you, meaning you don't want to change anything, definitely get Viva, it is much more transparent / not changing timbre/tonality type of amplifier - AND IT LOOKS gorgeous. Riviera on the other hands, fix what I have been trying to fix with 1266. Would I recommend the amplifier for other headphones? Hard to say, I did not have enough time to listen with Susvara, Utopia nor Valkyria. BUT for me, Riviera does what I wanted all the way - make 1266 a good headphone for Max Payne piano soundtrack, The Weeknd vocal heavy synth pop, and Linking Park indie rock. Will it replace Bartok for vocal less cold EDM? I don't think so, that one is more holographic and colder in presentation (in comparison).

Summary

I know many of you will fundamentally disagree here with me. I should get absolutely transparent source (dac+amp) and then a headphone, that presents it in a way that is again, transparent. But please note, that for me, I am after a certain sound signature, that plays well with music I listen to. For EDM, 1266 is the best headphone. For othet genres that are instrument / vocal focused, I found 1266 lacking. I tried to fix it with other headphones, but those I found lacking too. But now, with Riviera, I found a fix for my favourite headphone, that finally makes it sound like I can make it all with one headphone, no need for swapping (well, headphone swapping, I still need to swap amps, haha). If I could, I would keep both Viva Egoista 845 for EDM, and Riviera AIC-10 for the rest. But that's too much money for me, especially if Bartok is Viva minus 20%, I cannot justify keeping both. If I did not have Bartok with a good enough amplifier, I would definitely chose both. If I was buying other headphone, I would most likely chose more transparent Viva. But for 1266 owners, really, give Riviera a listen, it is that good.

Boring part
I put this last, as most of you already know it. Viva Egoista 845 is a huge 30kg monster, that functions as a space heater, as those 845 tubes are always on. Riviera AIC-10 on the other hand is a hybrid amplifier, that only weights 15kg and runs much cooler. Looks, Viva is something special, you can chose any automotive colour you want. Riviera comes in two colours, and even though my Bartok and Abyss are black, I prefer Riviera gold, it looks very classy in person, not as crazy as Viva. As for tube rolling, Viva does not recommend it, and claims it is better to trust their selection (they tube rolled in the factory). Riviera is of no opinion of sort and you are free to tube roll as much as you want and some people report great results, taking the amp directions needed for headphone pairings (more warmth, less warmth, stuff like that).

Glad to see that you enjoyed the Riviera. Which tube was it mounting? That's pretty important to understand if you could get even more out of this amp given your system and sound preferences. As an example: recently I upgraded the software on my Innuos streamer and got a cleaner, slightly leaner sound, with greater 3D accuracy. I wanted a slightly meatier sound with the Utopia but not as much as NOS Mullard. So I replaced what I usually pair with the Utopia (RT) with a RT Dario which I also had. Perfect match, 30 seconds to do it, I think I paid 70 euros for the tube. Once I will be in the mood for the TC again I may mount a Mullard. I am not rolling tubes all the time, far from it, but I love how easy and inexpensive it is to modify the sound signature. Another easy, cheap anf significant improvement for the TC is going via the speaker taps.

All this to say that even if you loved the Riviera you may still be in for some good surprises... enjoy

 

[Solan]

I'm familiar with SC, but haven't tried Riviera myself.

I do believe Riviera changes the character of your 1266 more than SC, and not by small margin, because SC is not about changing the 1266 character, but more about refinement and bigger imaging (as bonus, produce a little sweeter vocal, but only slight). Same also happen with SC for Diana, it doesn't transform Diana's character to something else.

The tube in the Riviera is in the preamp section. Could this change of character be accomplished by inserting a suitable preamp between DAC and power headphone amp? Has anyone searched for (and found) such a pure preamp?