[Sajid Amit]

Off topic, but maybe not entirely:

What streamers (and external clocks) have you found to work well with the TC?

 

[mammal]

The only "knock" I have on the WA33 is it isn't a SET amp, and that's more about preference.
Balanced tube amps cancel a lot of the 2nd harmonic distortion so you don't get a lot of mid range bloom with it.
It still sounds like a tube amp, but it's very much on the dryer side.

Is that the case always? I know that PP are considered to be removing those second harmonics, hence you hear third harmonics more. Perhaps that is what I would prefer, as I like tight lower end register and recessed mids? I read a lot that SET amps sound more natural though. I wonder again how much these topologies matter, as with DACs, often R2R vs DS depends on how it is implemented internally, very difficult to generalise what a certain topology will sound like on TOTL high end gear. I guess these generalisations work better on low-fi, or mid-fi perhaps.

Those qualities are going to be broadly the same across all the variants, I'd like to hear an EE, but I'm happy with my standard version. I generally use it in preference to my original Cavalli Liquid Gold.

That's amazing, I heard just praises of Liquid Gold, and now we have amps that surprise it, wow.

The big guy that didn't actually work at that time. Before the world shut down and they played catch-up with order fulfillment while putting a focus on the closed-back and planning the future for IEMs. I'll go with the big guy is a big miss but tried through development.

Very possible, perhaps we will hear more about it in 2022.

 

[littlej0e]

I'm not sure how true this really is.
The only tube I'd roll immediately on a WA33 is the rectifier, put at least an NOS RCA 5U4G (about $70) in it.
Better 2A3's will improve resolution and clarity to a point (and I have swapped mine), but the stock tubes aren't bad.
The input tubes aren't worth messing with IME.

The only "knock" I have on the WA33 is it isn't a SET amp, and that's more about preference.
Balanced tube amps cancel a lot of the 2nd harmonic distortion so you don't get a lot of mid range bloom with it.
It still sounds like a tube amp, but it's very much on the dryer side.

Those qualities are going to be broadly the same across all the variants, I'd like to hear an EE, but I'm happy with my standard version. I generally use it in preference to my original Cavalli Liquid Gold.

So here's what I learned about the standard WA33 vs the EE w/JPS. I demoed the standard WA33 at a local dealer and obviously liked what I heard, but when I received the EE w/JPS is sounded like a completely different amp with dramatically different sound. The EE JPS is also incredibly sensitive to whatever you put around and through it, including tubes. I found this to be generally true with the input and power tubes, but especially true with the rectifier. The stock hits a bit harder, but can't hold a candle to the Tak in pretty much every other category. The key takeaway is the standard edition isn't comparable SQ-wise to the EE JPS and rolling tubes in the EE JPS can give you fairly dramatic results.

As an aside does anyone know what the gain switch actually does on the WA33, I asked Woo and got the following none answer

I have an interesting experience to share on this subject. When I first got my WA33 EE JPS I used it in pre-amp mode with the Raal HSA-1b amp and SR1a ear speakers. I was in slack-jawed amazement of the SQ, but I had to max out the volume dials on the HSA-1b and the WA33 (on the low gain setting) to get the volume I wanted. Others have taught me that it is normally better to have the volume dials around 12 o'clock, so I switched the WA33 to high gain and leveled off the dials on both amps accordingly. When I did so, the music seemed to lose a lot of it's euphoric impact, a slight bit of color, and had an overall duller, more smeared presentation. I was 99% sure I was crazy and chalked it up to "new toy psychological euphoria" wearing off.

I eventually got curious and switched everything back to "max-max-low" and noticed things sounded much "stronger" and more euphoric. I subsequently did some blind A/B testing between the low and high gain to verify I wasn't insane, then did the same thing with my wife and mother-in-law. All three of us preferred max-max-low. There is something going on here, at least with this setup ( SR1a > HSA-1b > WA33 EE JPS (preamp) > Holo May > custom server > Roon > Qobuz/local music).

I'm going to do some additional testing to see if I can figure it out. I mean, if there isn't a mechanical reason in the WA33, then it has to be something else in the HSA-1b or another component. I also wonder if the same would be true when using the WA33 EE JPS in normal (non-preamp) mode.

 

[littlej0e]

Let me add to the wife support. I “mentioned” I might buy the Super Conductor cable and her response was “of course you should; it‘s like buying fine china and needing the silverware to go with it.” Hand to God…almost fell off the couch…

Sounds like a keeper to me!!!

 

[paradoxper]

Very possible, perhaps we will hear more about it in 2022.

It's likely. In their other video discussing the different driver approach, they also note how comparatively easy it is to take an idea quickly and prototype a planar rather than the field which would make sense to being hopeful in some successor.

 

[Polygonhell]

So here's what I learned about the standard WA33 vs the EE w/JPS. I demoed the standard WA33 at a local dealer and obviously liked what I heard, but when I received the EE w/JPS is sounded like a completely different amp with dramatically different sound. The EE JPS is also incredibly sensitive to whatever you put around and through it, including tubes. I found this to be generally true with the input and power tubes, but especially true with the rectifier. The stock hits a bit harder, but can't hold a candle to the Tak in pretty much every other category. The key takeaway is the standard edition isn't comparable SQ-wise to the EE JPS and rolling tubes in the EE JPS can give you fairly dramatic results.


I have an interesting experience to share on this subject. When I first got my WA33 EE JPS I used it in pre-amp mode with the Raal HSA-1b amp and SR1a ear speakers. I was in slack-jawed amazement of the SQ, but I had to max out the volume dials on the HSA-1b and the WA33 (on the low gain setting) to get the volume I wanted. Others have taught me that it is normally better to have the volume dials around 12 o'clock, so I switched the WA33 to high gain and leveled off the dials on both amps accordingly. When I did so, the music seemed to lose a lot of it's euphoric impact, a slight bit of color, and had an overall duller, more smeared presentation. I was 99% sure I was crazy and chalked it up to "new toy psychological euphoria" wearing off.

I eventually got curious and switched everything back to "max-max-low" and noticed things sounded much "stronger" and more euphoric. I subsequently did some blind A/B testing between the low and high gain to verify I wasn't insane, then did the same thing with my wife and mother-in-law. All three of us preferred max-max-low. There is something going on here, at least with this setup ( SR1a > HSA-1b > WA33 EE JPS (preamp) > Holo May > custom server > Roon > Qobuz/local music).

I'm going to do some additional testing to see if I can figure it out. I mean, if there isn't a mechanical reason in the WA33, then it has to be something else in the HSA-1b or another component. I also wonder if the same would be true when using the WA33 EE JPS in normal (non-preamp) mode.

Generally pots sound better at maximum, assuming the amp isn't clipping, so max/max makes some sense to me.
I suspect what the low gain switch does on the WA33 is adjust the voltage divider on the pot, in which case it's basically just restricting the volume range.
I was interested to see if like the DNA Amps it's actually a different output tap on the transformer, because if it is, it would actually deliver less gain, but have a larger current reserve in low gain mode.

 

[Polygonhell]

I read a lot that SET amps sound more natural though.

It's all personal preference at some level, I use my D8000Pro on a DNA Stratus, through the SE out on low gain by preference.
I think it's better complement to that particular headphone than the WA33, the DNA isn't very wet, but it has a hint of 2nd harmonic bloom.

There are SET amps with varying levels of "wetness", the EC amps for example are supposed to be generally on the very dry side, and the SE Woo amps I've heard are overly wet for my tastes.

The Susvara I prefer on the WA33, DNA just doesn't drive it properly, though it gets closest on low gain SE out.
I'd like to hear one of the EC 300B amps, and I might pick one up if I get a chance.
My 1266 might ship this week according to my dealer, fingers crossed.

 

[littlej0e]

Generally pots sound better at maximum, assuming the amp isn't clipping, so max/max makes some sense to me.
I suspect what the low gain switch does on the WA33 is adjust the voltage divider on the pot, in which case it's basically just restricting the volume range.
I was interested to see if like the DNA Amps it's actually a different output tap on the transformer, because if it is, it would actually deliver less gain, but have a larger current reserve in low gain mode.

Fantastic info and thank you so much for sharing. This is a much better, more workable, theory than mine: "well, duh...it must be because rainbows reflect Earth's magnetic field and cause my special music hat made of a rare earth tinfoil alloy to reverberate more impactfully when Eric Clapton plays guitar solos."

Seriously, thanks. I've been baking my noodle on this for days.

 

[Solan]

I know that PP are considered to be removing those second harmonics, hence you hear third harmonics more. Perhaps that is what I would prefer, as I like tight lower end register and recessed mids?

Harmonics are not about registers, but about how the waveforms are modified from their basic sinusoidal patterns. Examples of tones with only odd harmonics are triangle waves (check Additive Triangle wave sound sample for sound sample) and square waves (the charming sound of that may be found here: Square wave sound sample). That does by all means not prove anything, but ... I hope it helps build understanding. Try the sines with overtones (2nd and 3rd harmonics) generated here by choosing 100Hz + 200Hz (2nd harmonic) and then a new one at 100Hz + 300 Hz (3rd harmonic). That's really all it's about. I would have loved to find something more "musical", but alas!

 

[Ciggavelli]

Off topic, but maybe not entirely:

What streamers (and external clocks) have you found to work well with the TC?

I have an Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker and Innuos Zenith Mk3 streamer. I previously had an UpTone audio usb reclocker, and I liked it a lot. Because I liked that reclocker so much, I splurged on the more expensive PhoenixUSB. Because I liked that reclocker so well, I decided to get the Innuos Zenith Mk3. If you can only choose a streamer or the reclocker, I vote for the reclocker. The streamer is good, but more subtle compared to the pretty dramatic effect of the USB reclocker

 

[DJJEZ]

I have an Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker and Innuos Zenith Mk3 streamer. I previously had an UpTone audio usb reclocker, and I liked it a lot. Because I liked that reclocker so much, I splurged on the more expensive PhoenixUSB. Because I liked that reclocker so well, I decided to get the Innuos Zenith Mk3. If you can only choose a streamer or the reclocker, I vote for the reclocker. The streamer is good, but more subtle compared to the pretty dramatic effect of the USB reclocker

I'm adding the phoenix to my setup soon. Can't wait to see what it adds

 

[sn0gl0be]

Any AB-1266 owner with Viva Egoista 845 tube amp? It is very difficult (if not impossible) for me to demo Woo Audio WA33 (either version/edition), nor Riviera AIC/AFC-10 here. But managed to convince a dealer to give me Egoista loaner to pair with Bartok for 2-3 weeks, awaiting its availability now. I know Abyss has said in one of their Youtube videos that they do not recommend this amp due its "manual warmup procedure", and I know that there have been cases of AB-1266 drivers failures and I asked Viva about what happened and they told me their side of the story. Anyway, will do my best to be ultra careful operating the amp. So my question is, anyone rocking this setup?

Hi Mammal,
Yeah I am. Its a terrific combination with my Abyss. I’ve only managed to hear WA33 in show conditions, but I ended up going with the Egoista. My dac is a hugo tt2+chord blu. I’ve never had any issue with driver failure (have had the amp for about 4 years). The warm up procedure is pretty simple, I just run the amps for 5 minutes, before playing music. It does run really hot though, great for winter. I reckon its worth a drive test it out for yourself.

 

[Ciggavelli]

So here's what I learned about the standard WA33 vs the EE w/JPS. I demoed the standard WA33 at a local dealer and obviously liked what I heard, but when I received the EE w/JPS is sounded like a completely different amp with dramatically different sound. The EE JPS is also incredibly sensitive to whatever you put around and through it, including tubes. I found this to be generally true with the input and power tubes, but especially true with the rectifier. The stock hits a bit harder, but can't hold a candle to the Tak in pretty much every other category. The key takeaway is the standard edition isn't comparable SQ-wise to the EE JPS and rolling tubes in the EE JPS can give you fairly dramatic results.


I have an interesting experience to share on this subject. When I first got my WA33 EE JPS I used it in pre-amp mode with the Raal HSA-1b amp and SR1a ear speakers. I was in slack-jawed amazement of the SQ, but I had to max out the volume dials on the HSA-1b and the WA33 (on the low gain setting) to get the volume I wanted. Others have taught me that it is normally better to have the volume dials around 12 o'clock, so I switched the WA33 to high gain and leveled off the dials on both amps accordingly. When I did so, the music seemed to lose a lot of it's euphoric impact, a slight bit of color, and had an overall duller, more smeared presentation. I was 99% sure I was crazy and chalked it up to "new toy psychological euphoria" wearing off.

I eventually got curious and switched everything back to "max-max-low" and noticed things sounded much "stronger" and more euphoric. I subsequently did some blind A/B testing between the low and high gain to verify I wasn't insane, then did the same thing with my wife and mother-in-law. All three of us preferred max-max-low. There is something going on here, at least with this setup ( SR1a > HSA-1b > WA33 EE JPS (preamp) > Holo May > custom server > Roon > Qobuz/local music).

I'm going to do some additional testing to see if I can figure it out. I mean, if there isn't a mechanical reason in the WA33, then it has to be something else in the HSA-1b or another component. I also wonder if the same would be true when using the WA33 EE JPS in normal (non-preamp) mode.

This is interesting. I do low impedance, high gain on my wa33 at around 11 o’clock on the volume. Then I go 12-2 o’clock on the hsa-1b depending on the song (even higher if I use those convolution filters). I keep my DAVE at -6db (as directed by Woo Audio, apparently ). If I take it off high gain I still don’t have to max out either volume. Maybe this volume situation is dac dependent. I guess technically my DAVE turns into a preamp when you mess with the volume. So it’s Dave pre to wa33 pre to hsa-1b pre. (Which is kinda crazy now that I wrote it out ).

By max-max-low what do you mean? Max on your dac, max on the wa33?

 

[Frankie D]

Hi Mammal,
Yeah I am. Its a terrific combination with my Abyss. I’ve only managed to hear WA33 in show conditions, but I ended up going with the Egoista. My dac is a hugo tt2+chord blu. I’ve never had any issue with driver failure (have had the amp for about 4 years). The warm up procedure is pretty simple, I just run the amps for 5 minutes, before playing music. It does run really hot though, great for winter. I reckon its worth a drive test it out for yourself.

How is it with the Utopia as I see you have they as well? Tks.

 

[jlbrach]

This is interesting. I do low impedance, high gain on my wa33 at around 11 o’clock on the volume. Then I go 12-2 o’clock on the hsa-1b depending on the song (even higher if I use those convolution filters). I keep my DAVE at -6db (as directed by Woo Audio, apparently ). If I take it off high gain I still don’t have to max out either volume. Maybe this volume situation is dac dependent. I guess technically my DAVE turns into a preamp when you mess with the volume. So it’s Dave pre to wa33 pre to hsa-1b pre. (Which is kinda crazy now that I wrote it out ).

By max-max-low what do you mean? Max on your dac, max on the wa33?

I use my dave/blu2 at 0 into my hsa-1b 0 being the equivalent of -3 on the dave alone....then I am at anywhere between 9-16 on most music