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Mar 9, 2015 at 9:49 PM Post #601 of 687
A couple questions/options regarding the Cypher Labs Algo Rhythm Solo db

1)Coming out of a RWA Imod into the db which is preferable for best SQ
a) 30 pin lod to USB
    or
b) 30 pin lod to Mini cable

Imod > CLA db > RSA Intruder/Dac > Balanced out to HP (fully balanced)

2) Stick with just RWA Imod

Imod . >.RSA Intruder/Dac > Balanced out to HP ( balanced out only)

Only way to utilize dac of Intruder, you have to go into usb of amp/dac, if you go in mini cable you by pass dac of amp.

Undecided which way to fly... Suggestions, thoughts.. Thanks

I think just keep as simple as possible and go iMod to Intruder with a balanced out. Otherwise you would be double amping the sound with both the CLB and the Intruder. The one big draw back is battery power. The Intruder's DAC is not powered internally but draws its power from the DAP. You have to add a USB hub to trick the iDevice or it will not work at all. With my iPod Touch 5th I only get 4 hours of battery life. If you cannot live with the power limitation use the CLB to connect to the Intruder.

I personally go iPod Touch with the CCK camera kit to USB input to Intruder and balanced out to my IEMs.
[i have attached a picture to illustrate my setup]
 
Mar 9, 2015 at 11:05 PM Post #602 of 687
I think just keep as simple as possible and go iMod to Intruder with a balanced out. Otherwise you would be double amping the sound with both the CLB and the Intruder. The one big draw back is battery power. The Intruder's DAC is not powered internally but draws its power from the DAP. You have to add a USB hub to trick the iDevice or it will not work at all. With my iPod Touch 5th I only get 4 hours of battery life. If you cannot live with the power limitation use the CLB to connect to the Intruder.

I personally go iPod Touch with the CCK camera kit to USB input to Intruder and balanced out to my IEMs.


 
spook76 appreciate the feedback, so I would not be able to just use a 30 pin lod to USB into Intruder, but need  a CCK camera kit. and only get 4hrs battery life. I wasn't aware of that. I have no idea what a CCK camera kit is, however I think I see it in your image... I still have the option to use the 30 pin lod to Mini cable into Intruder, but then no use of the dac .  I believe I read back some pages, you felt going in usb gave you better SQ than just Ipod & amp, not utilizing the dac. Since mine is a Imod, and not Ipod, perhaps I should take baby steps, and see how it pairs, before considering your option. Probably would like to try both ways, to see what yields best results, but 4hrs, yikes.
 
As for the Cypher Labs Algo Rhythm Solo db, it's not an Amp, its just a Dac so I would not be double amping. Still would like to hear from some folks who may be using this with there Intruder
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 12:22 AM Post #603 of 687
I agree with your baby steps. I would suggest then to look at the RSA Lightning as an amp as you do not need a DAC. I have the RSA Lightning, Protector and Intruder and as a pure amp the Lightning is a touch better than the Intruder amp to amp. No need to spend $200 more for a DAC if you are going to bypass it anyway.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 12:38 PM Post #604 of 687
I agree with your baby steps. I would suggest then to look at the RSA Lightning as an amp as you do not need a DAC. I have the RSA Lightning, Protector and Intruder and as a pure amp the Lightning is a touch better than the Intruder amp to amp. No need to spend $200 more for a DAC if you are going to bypass it anyway.


From your earlier comments when you went from single ended in from your Ipod to the USB in, everything got better. I'm thinking my Imod going in single ended still wont be as good as USB in because of the quality dac in the Intruder.
 
My Imod is iPod (5th generation Late 2006)—also known as iPod with video or Fifth Generation iPod with the 30pin out, not like yours with usb out, so I have no Idea if the CKK Camera kit will even work with it.
 
May have to upgrade Ipod to a more current one.
 
Also I would like to see tighter run of the wires utilizing the CKK kit, so things are not dangling so much., especially if you are using it on the go.  
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 4:09 PM Post #605 of 687
There might be a CCK camera kit comparable to the 30 pin connector. The CCK is the only way with a lightning connector iDevice to pull a pure digital signal. Also, with the 30 pin connector you might not need the CCK at all and be able to pull a digital signal. I just do not know.

As for a shorter length (tighter run of wires) all three pieces (CCK camera kit, USB hub and the 6" USB A to mini B cable are the smallest and shortest possible. To my knowledge, the is no way to make it any shorter and still pull a digital signal from a lightning connector iDevice.
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 7:16 PM Post #606 of 687
There might be a CCK camera kit comparable to the 30 pin connector. The CCK is the only way with a lightning connector iDevice to pull a pure digital signal. Also, with the 30 pin connector you might not need the CCK at all and be able to pull a digital signal. I just do not know.

As for a shorter length (tighter run of wires) all three pieces (CCK camera kit, USB hub and the 6" USB A to mini B cable are the smallest and shortest possible. To my knowledge, the is no way to make it any shorter and still pull a digital signal from a lightning connector iDevice.


Spook76 appreciate the dialogue back and forth. Put an email into Ray today, and it looks like I will be able to use both of my mobile Daps (Imod & Samsung Galaxy5) I have to utilize internal dac of Intruder. .. No need for a CCK.
 
So its now onto order all the cables I am going to need. One 30pin LOD to  Mini B usb  .... One micro B usb to Mini B usb ... One 5" balanced HP cable with kobiconn plug..
 
Mar 10, 2015 at 7:47 PM Post #607 of 687
Spook76 appreciate the dialogue back and forth. Put an email into Ray today, and it looks like I will be able to use both of my mobile Daps (Imod & Samsung Galaxy5) I have to utilize internal dac of Intruder. .. No need for a CCK.

So its now onto order all the cables I am going to need. One 30pin LOD to  Mini B usb  .... One micro B usb to Mini B usb ... One 5" balanced HP cable with kobiconn plug..

I had an felling the old 30 pin connector allowed for a digital line out. Congratulations let me know your impressions when you have assembled your rig. I love the sound of the Burr Brown DAC.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 11:20 AM Post #608 of 687
If you are using any smart phone BUT the iPhone with the Intruder, you will need a short little cable that has MINI B USB connector at one end & MICRO B USB on the other end. I devices will NOT work with the USB DAC of the Intruder unless using the Camera kit.
If your device is modified by RWA then I believe you would have an analog signal output, I believe it is mini stereo jack, UNLESS the device is modified to have a balanced analog out signal. If it is SE analog signal then you will need stereo mini jack to stereo mini jack that connects to Intruder's SE input. If the signal from your source is balanced ANALOG signal, then you will need the balanced plug that is used in that source output plug to RSA 4 pins balanced male connector. If you are using 30 pins iPod classic or any iDevices, old generation with 30 pins, then you will need LOD cable that 
has 30 pins connector at one end & stereo mini jack on the other to connect the analog signal to the SE input of the Intruder.
Ray Samuels
 
 
 
 
 
Quote:
I had an felling the old 30 pin connector allowed for a digital line out. Congratulations let me know your impressions when you have assembled your rig. I love the sound of the Burr Brown DAC.

 
 
Spook76 appreciate the dialogue back and forth. Put an email into Ray today, and it looks like I will be able to use both of my mobile Daps (Imod & Samsung Galaxy5) I have to utilize internal dac of Intruder. .. No need for a CCK.
 
So its now onto order all the cables I am going to need. One 30pin LOD to  Mini B usb  .... One micro B usb to Mini B usb ... One 5" balanced HP cable with kobiconn plug..

 
Mar 12, 2015 at 1:49 PM Post #609 of 687


Ray thanks for shinning in, as I understand it, one needs a  MINI B USB connector at one end & MICRO B USB on the other end for smart phones (example samsung galaxy 5) Correct
 
Regarding the RWA Imod I do have the 30pin LOD to mini on the other end, which I used with my 71a and Hornet. ( Its not  balanced )
 
It was my understanding from our previous communications, that if I had a 30pin LOD to Mini B usb made I then could use it into the usb port to utilize the dac ( Is this correct)
 
Instead of using it as a 30pin LOD to mini which would not allow me to utilize the dac in the Intruder. My object if possible, is to use the Imod as player only and feed it into dac of Intruder.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 4:23 PM Post #610 of 687
 
Ray thanks for shinning in, as I understand it, one needs a  MINI B USB connector at one end & MICRO B USB on the other end for smart phones (example samsung galaxy 5) Correct
 
Regarding the RWA Imod I do have the 30pin LOD to mini on the other end, which I used with my 71a and Hornet. ( Its not  balanced )
 
It was my understanding from our previous communications, that if I had a 30pin LOD to Mini B usb made I then could use it into the usb port to utilize the dac ( Is this correct)
 
Instead of using it as a 30pin LOD to mini which would not allow me to utilize the dac in the Intruder. My object if possible, is to use the Imod as player only and feed it into dac of Intruder.

SEABREEZE.  Hi.  I think I understand what you are trying to do.  Some of it is impossible, and some of it is tremendously more difficult than you think.  I’m going to discuss in reverse order of your list above.
 
Your stated objective is to use the imod 30 pin to usb mini into the DAC of the intruder.  This is not possible because of the nature of the imod.  The imod is bypassing the internal amplifier of the ipod.  This gives you a direct line out from the DAP to the intruder.  This is almost as good as you can get for using an ipod as a transport.  However, it is an analog signal, not digital.  Therefore you would use the 1/8” single ended input into the intruder. (Also, please read the imod page where it cautions you against using your imod with any other docks other than the imod cable that came with it.  It could damage equipment.)
 
If you had a standard (older) ipod with a 30 pin output.  You can buy the Cypher Labs 30 pin to usb b mini cable (see moon audio or cypher labs for this cable).  You still could not use this directly into the RSA intruder DAC.  RSA Intruder is not apple certified.  In this case, you could use something like the Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo (I suggest the balanced –dB model). 
You would go ipod > 30 pin to usb B mini > CL Algorhythm Solo > balanced kobiconn cable > balanced input to intruder > balanced output to headphones.
 
Here is a post from Acesi7 with the above setup.  Only using an SR71 instead of intruder.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549750/cypher-labs-algorhythm-solo-discussion-and-impressions-thread/255#post_7655275
 
For android smartphones, I believe you need a micro B OTG to mini B connector.  You need to look for a cable that specifies On The Go (OTG).  That forces the phone to be the driving end of the USB stream, and not the receiving end.  Phones are primarily set up as receiving end of the USB stream.  And the micro B to mini B - OTG cable is not common.  There is a thread about that, but I dropped off it a year ago.
 
I have looked at exactly what you want to do for the past couple of years.  Here is what I've determined:
Ray's Intruder is a fantastic piece of kit, and sounds great using the standard 30 pin ipod connector to single ended input.  You already have the iMod which is supposed to be fantastic.  You should simply connect the imod to the single ended input of the intruder, and Jingle-BAM.  Happiness.
 
When I wanted digital, I left apple completely and went with a DAP that can handle FLAC.
If you have a touch or iphone, you can download the FLAC player from apple, but it is still limited to 16/48, I believe.  And you will still have apple compatibility requirements for the hardware.
 
If you want HD tracks quality, you have to get a DAP that will handle that.  I went with the iBasso DX50.  But DX90 is nice.  And products from fiio, and Astell & Kern are options as well.
 
No matter what, the intruder is awesome.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 8:47 PM Post #611 of 687
For all of us using a lightning out iDevice to connect to the USB on the Intruder, I have found a solution to the power problem. Connect a standard USB A to A in one of the other hub slots (see my picture above). Obviously, now it does not work on the go but 4 hours portable use to me is more than enough.

In my office or home, the DAC in the Intruder is no longer drawing power from my iPod but from an external source so I am back to about 10 hours before my iPod or Intruder needs to be recharged.

Why go through all this because I find the Intruder DAC/Amp simply the best sounding of all of Ray's portable products.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 11:21 PM Post #612 of 687
Howlin, thank you for taking the time to add a lengthy response.
 
I have two Daps 1) Smart phone SG5, for that I will use the micro B usb to Mini B usb to utilize the Intruders Dac  2) RWA Imod I already have a 30pin LOD to mini, so I will use that going into the Intruders single ended input, not utilizing the Intruders dac. It will be interesting to see which one has the bigger impact (SQ) on the sound. However a little disappointed I will not be able to use the Imod into the Intrduers dac.
 
Funny you mention the Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo db.. I touched base with them the other day on there FB page. As that was also on my radar as another option.. They told me the CLAS would not support my older Imod, and that I would need to get a more current Ipod, if I wanted to use the CLAS .  Initially I will use my smart phone and Imod, and see how that goes. If I am not happy, I will then pursue the CLAS option.
 
Using my Imod with my RSA Hornet and 71a (single ended), I was quite pleased with it, and I know going balanced will definitely improve on that. All of my files are in lossless.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 11:35 PM Post #613 of 687
Spook, my plans also, to use the Intruder at home/office with drawing power from  external source, namely a PC computer.
 
Ray shared with me, that he uses his SG5 with his Intruder, and he changed out the battery to get longer run time.
 
So you may want to consider changing out your Ipod touch battery, if possible, as it may give you longer run time..
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 9:17 AM Post #614 of 687
  Howlin, thank you for taking the time to add a lengthy response.
 
I have two Daps 1) Smart phone SG5, for that I will use the micro B usb to Mini B usb to utilize the Intruders Dac  2) RWA Imod I already have a 30pin LOD to mini, so I will use that going into the Intruders single ended input, not utilizing the Intruders dac. It will be interesting to see which one has the bigger impact (SQ) on the sound. However a little disappointed I will not be able to use the Imod into the Intrduers dac.
 
Funny you mention the Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo db.. I touched base with them the other day on there FB page. As that was also on my radar as another option.. They told me the CLAS would not support my older Imod, and that I would need to get a more current Ipod, if I wanted to use the CLAS .  Initially I will use my smart phone and Imod, and see how that goes. If I am not happy, I will then pursue the CLAS option.
 
Using my Imod with my RSA Hornet and 71a (single ended), I was quite pleased with it, and I know going balanced will definitely improve on that. All of my files are in lossless.

SEABREEZE.
I did some digging.  There is a thread on micro to mini otg cable here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/630947/micro-to-mini-usb-otg-cable
 
And post 24 has a link to JDS labs for this short and reasonably priced OTG cable.
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/86/micro-to-mini-usb-otg-cable/
 
I just want to stress OTG.  I have seen so many posts from people who buy a micro to mini cable, and they say it doesn't work.  Then they look closer and the posting doesn't say OTG.
 
As a friendly suggestion... Since you have an imod and an S5, take a look at ibasso DX50 and DX90.  I bought the DX50 when it first came out and I am quite pleased.  Plays all the lossless files you could want, and has many different combinations for output.  Headphone out, Line out, and Digital coaxial out.  Unfortunately it won't go into the DAC of the intruder, but I use the line out from the DX50 to the intruder and it is fantastic.  I also use it digital out into a peachtree audio decco65.  Awesome.
 
I only make the suggestion because I have had great success with it, and I can expand beyond apple and smart phones to a reasonably priced and high quality DAP.
 
Here is a link to some pictures of my setup with the DX50 and the Intruder.  Great kit.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/679473/the-ibasso-dx50-thread-latest-firmware-1-8-0/4560#post_9909925
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 12:02 PM Post #615 of 687
Howlin, really appreciate you effort on by behalf.
 
Will definitely keep in mind the OTG, and thanks for the heads up on it.
 
I had seen a few other positive comments about the DX50 and it's wolfson dac with the Intruder, as I was casually browsing in other threads. Never did any serious research into it.
How much storage capacity does it have, and how does it differ from the DX90  Were there any comparisons to CLAS as far as SQ .
What the CLAS has going for it is, you can go balanced into the Intruder. That's not to say, I wont keep an open mind regarding the Ibasso's
 
What would be cool is, if someone has been down this road comparing, and there impressions and conclusions.
 
I know Jude was very impressed with his set up of the Ipod>CLAS>71b  driving the HD25-1-II &  DT 1350
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aahpv0_DDFE
 

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