[NJoyzAudio]

@NJoyzAudio I don't know what happened to me a few days ago, but last weekend I shared the same sentiment as you. I knew N8ii was different, but I wasn't so sure until last night.
I'm not sure what happened, burn-in, my understanding of the sound of N8ii, but as of today, I rate N8ii as the best dap I have in my position sonically.
LP6 has this dynamic, honest representation that displays the entire sound in a balanced manner. But with N8ii I'm able to hear the spaces between the instrument.
M.A. recordings albums are truly great when one wants to hear natural sound and I haven't heard anything which can do this recording justice like N8ii.

Audionewbi

Thank You for your insight.
Looks like there is hope and keeping fingers crossed I will have a similar experience!

 

[Andykong]

From N8, not sure if ii differs...

@CayinSupport

Thank you, the I2S pin out is correct, we maintain the same pin-out across all N8, N8ii and N8ii.

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong and @CayinSupport , it would be nice to have some improvement over USB in/out.

USB out can only play upto DSD256 and not 512X toward 2 of my desktop DAC

USB in, it is a little glitchy, not only it has latency lags but also stall like 0.5 second randomly

Thanks !

I didn't check DSD512, I don't have that in my music library, I'll check with our Engineer regarding using USB Audio out with DSD512.

You can control the buffer setting to improve the latency lag, a smaller buffer will reduce the lag, a larger buffer will improve jitter on the expense of more lag.

The lip-sync/lag/delay is caused by the Asynchronous USB transmission for USB Audio. This will involve adding a data buffer between the DAC and your computer so it will not synchronize with the video screen of your computer accurately. This will affect the user experience when lip-syn (movie, MTV) or special sound effects (computer game) is an important feature. This is a design constraint, we can completely eliminate the delay because it is a natural outcome of asynchronous transmission.

To explain the concept of asynchronous USB transmission, I shall quote the following explanation on asynchronous USB for discussion purposes:

"Asynchronous USB (not to be confused with asynchronous sample rate conversion) uses a clock housed near the dac (usually in the external dac’s casing) and allows it to drive the converter directly, thereby not relying on the instable computer’s clock. It is called asynchronous because the DAC’s master clock isn’t synchronized directly to any clocks within the computer. Instead, the DAC is controlled by a (potentially high-precision) fixed-frequency clock. This clock controls the datastream from the computer to a buffer near the DA converter."

I would like to draw your attention to two issues in this explanation:

1. the DAC’s master clock isn’t synchronized directly to the clock of the digital source (a computer in most the cases)
2. This controls the data stream from the computer to a buffer near the DA converter

In other words, the audio signal processing is deliberately "disconnected" from the computer clock but the video display remains connected to the computer clock, so the video and audio are not synchronized by nature. In addition, we have to provide a data buffer in the audio circuit to hold the audio data stream from the computer. The buffer will inevitably cause delays in the audio signal with reference to the non-buffered video signal. For the record, IEE1394 Firewire was considered the only acceptable option to connect a computer device to an high-end audio back in the 90s, USB was not considered acceptable as those were the time when USB connection was operated in synchronized mode and the extremely high jitter and occasional drop out is considered unacceptable by an audiophile. The Asynchronous USB transmission has solved these inherited problems and gradually replaced the IEEE1394 Firewire connection in high-end audio, it become the necessary (but not sufficient) criteria to use USB for high-quality audio applications.

If you cross-check with other audio manufacturers, the following video from Cambridge Audio explained the various options (synchronous, adaptive, and asynchronous) briefly.



Additional references are available HERE, HEREand HERE. I hope we can accept the industrial consent that Asynchronous USB transmission is the appropriate choice for a Digital Audio Player.

 

[Whitigir]

I didn't check DSD512, I don't have that in my music library, I'll check with our Engineer regarding using USB Audio out with DSD512.

You can control the buffer setting to improve the latency lag, a smaller buffer will reduce the lag, a larger buffer will improve jitter on the expense of more lag.






The lip-sync/lag/delay is caused by the Asynchronous USB transmission for USB Audio. This will involve adding a data buffer between the DAC and your computer so it will not synchronize with the video screen of your computer accurately. This will affect the user experience when lip-syn (movie, MTV) or special sound effects (computer game) is an important feature. This is a design constraint, we can completely eliminate the delay because it is a natural outcome of asynchronous transmission.

To explain the concept of asynchronous USB transmission, I shall quote the following explanation on asynchronous USB for discussion purposes:

"Asynchronous USB (not to be confused with asynchronous sample rate conversion) uses a clock housed near the dac (usually in the external dac’s casing) and allows it to drive the converter directly, thereby not relying on the instable computer’s clock. It is called asynchronous because the DAC’s master clock isn’t synchronized directly to any clocks within the computer. Instead, the DAC is controlled by a (potentially high-precision) fixed-frequency clock. This clock controls the datastream from the computer to a buffer near the DA converter."

I would like to draw your attention to two issues in this explanation:

1. the DAC’s master clock isn’t synchronized directly to the clock of the digital source (a computer in most the cases)
2. This controls the data stream from the computer to a buffer near the DA converter

In other words, the audio signal processing is deliberately "disconnected" from the computer clock but the video display remains connected to the computer clock, so the video and audio are not synchronized by nature. In addition, we have to provide a data buffer in the audio circuit to hold the audio data stream from the computer. The buffer will inevitably cause delays in the audio signal with reference to the non-buffered video signal. For the record, IEE1394 Firewire was considered the only acceptable option to connect a computer device to an high-end audio back in the 90s, USB was not considered acceptable as those were the time when USB connection was operated in synchronized mode and the extremely high jitter and occasional drop out is considered unacceptable by an audiophile. The Asynchronous USB transmission has solved these inherited problems and gradually replaced the IEEE1394 Firewire connection in high-end audio, it become the necessary (but not sufficient) criteria to use USB for high-quality audio applications.

If you cross-check with other audio manufacturers, the following video from Cambridge Audio explained the various options (synchronous, adaptive, and asynchronous) briefly.



Additional references are available HERE, HEREand HERE. I hope we can accept the industrial consent that Asynchronous USB transmission is the appropriate choice for a Digital Audio Player.

Can you set the buffer for iPad and Mac OS Andy ?

 

[Andykong]

Can you set the buffer for iPad and Mac OS Andy ?

I am a blank sheet with MacOS or any Apple product, sorry.

 

[NYanakiev]

That is a surprise, I was under the impression that your unit has a bad battery. So you can't get the player to turn on after the battery drain, but your dealer can wake up the player after charging it?

Your post seems to imply that this is about user error and not about an issue affecting some of the n8iis out there.

At any rate, having tried 4 different cable and charger combinations, I gave up to preserve my own sanity (and stop being frustrated about a product worth almost £3000 that isn't working as expected).

I will abstain from commenting further but the important part is not that the unit was eventually brought back to life but that this happened to me twice in three days of ownership (with it being dead for 90 minutes at a time)

To reiterate, I have never owned a device that is so particular about how it is being charged or with what.

 

[Andykong]

Your post seems to imply that this is about user error and not about an issue affecting some of the n8iis out there.

At any rate, having tried 4 different cable and charger combinations, I gave up to preserve my own sanity (and stop being frustrated about a product worth almost £3000 that isn't working as expected).

I will abstain from commenting further but the important part is not that the unit was eventually brought back to life but that this happened to me twice in three days of ownership.

To reiterate, I have never owned a device that is so particular about how it is being charged or with what.

My friend, you are so sensitive. I never had that in mind, I was assuming your unit will eventually send back to our lab and we'll figure out what happened in due course. If the unit can be revived, my biggest concern is how, and I want to know that badly so that I can be more equipped to help other N8ii users if they run into similar problems. I try to be helpful and answer all questions as much as possible, if there is an anwer out there that I don't know, I want to learn about that.

 

[KPzypher]

My friend, you are so sensitive. I never had that in mind, I was assuming your unit will eventually send back to our lab and we'll figure out what happened in due course. If the unit can be revived, my biggest concern is how, and I want to know that badly so that I can be more equipped to help other N8ii users if they run into similar problems. I try to be helpful and answer all questions as much as possible, if there is an anwer out there that I don't know, I want to learn about that.

Are the potential charging related issues limited to the first batch of N8iis?

I have zero issues with regard to improper discharge/recharge/battery indication, and i've ran thru several charging cycles now. I was wondering if there are any subtle changes made to the latest batch? Or did the latest FW sort things out to a degree?

I don't charge and play at the same time, so maybe that has to do with something? I wonder if Cayin has reached out to users affected by this to establish use pattern/behavior?

At any rate, hope things get sorted out soon. I know how frustrating it can be for end users, when you purchase an item this expensive and doesn't feel like it's working the way it should.

It's a great DAP and I hope every owner gets to enjoy the device to its full potential.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Are the potential charging related issues limited to the first batch of N8iis?

I have zero issues with regard to improper discharge/recharge/battery indication, and i've ran thru several charging cycles now. I was wondering if there are any subtle changes made to the latest batch? Or did the latest FW sort things out to a degree?

I don't charge and play at the same time, so maybe that has to do with something? I wonder if Cayin has reached out to users affected by this to establish use pattern/behavior?

At any rate, hope things get sorted out soon. I know how frustrating it can be for end users, when you purchase an item this expensive and doesn't feel like it's working the way it should.

It's a great DAP and I hope every owner gets to enjoy the device to its full potential.

Same, charged mine partially once and fully once as well since yesterday and I haven’t encountered any issues. Battery indicator works fine as well. Haven’t tried draining the battery to 0 but I never do that with any device anyways

Edit: charged and played for a few hours today without issue

 

[bgillis]

Also I've added a nice heatsink I found on Amazon that fits the N8ii perfectly
With the charger and the heatsink, even in Tubes/P/AB mode being used for burn in cycle (thank you Andy Kong for your recommendations in this thread for burn in settings) the device (and heatsink) is just barely warm to the touch, so I have confidence I can run it the next few days continuously and get burn in completed, without triggering the overheat protection
If anyone is interested this is the Heatsink I found on Amazon, and pictures of the N8ii on it are attached to this post
Was about $12 and available in several colors (150 mm x 85 mm x 12 mm/ 5.9 x 3.35 x 0.47 inch (L*W*T)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089QHMG5M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks for the tip

Also available here in Europe from rainforest... in black only, a bit larger and more expensive.
I will post a picture as soon as I get it.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Are the potential charging related issues limited to the first batch of N8iis?

I have zero issues with regard to improper discharge/recharge/battery indication, and i've ran thru several charging cycles now. I was wondering if there are any subtle changes made to the latest batch? Or did the latest FW sort things out to a degree?

I don't charge and play at the same time, so maybe that has to do with something? I wonder if Cayin has reached out to users affected by this to establish use pattern/behavior?

At any rate, hope things get sorted out soon. I know how frustrating it can be for end users, when you purchase an item this expensive and doesn't feel like it's working the way it should.

It's a great DAP and I hope every owner gets to enjoy the device to its full potential.

I had the battery percentage indicator issue early on, but that problem is long gone. The easy way to fix it is to just reboot. It sorted itself out after a few charging cycles. The biggest enhancement was getting a good fast charger.

 

[Whitigir]

Mine was one of those very early on in the very first batch and I have zero problems with indicators or charging, except I encountered the protection issues and posted about it

 

[Doug2507]

Think I was 2nd MT shipment (couple of days later). Only issue was hot on 1st drain and had to re-establish handshake using a proper qc3 charger after I'd drained it. (Including 15sec per button press). Been faultless ever since and now using a 65w GaN PD/QC3.0 charger (18w-24w depending on what else is plugged in) with supplied Cayin cable. Zero issues with battery indicator after cycling a few times.

 

[blotmouse]

I haven’t seen the indicator crop up either in the last week. Pre or post firmware upgrade
Maybe the battery needed burn in also, or the battery indicator is cloud controlled by Andy and he just got around to adding mine to the ‘working’ bin, lol.

All good though.

 

[ECKHUAAA]

New N8ii Owner!
Going past first 20hours of burn in, and wanted to share some of my opinions/observations.
I might be in the minority here and don't want to pass final judgement until I get at least 120+ hours of burn in, but my initial listen to set an initial baseline (Med Gain, P, Tubes, Class A so far my favorite), while there were some great micro details, my Lotoo PAW6K in true LO into the Cayin C9 ( in Low gain, Tubes, Class A, pre in) just sounds more musical, and fuller.
Not getting the same euphoria others have experienced with their initial listens on the N8ii.
I'm hoping that getting burn in completed will remedy this.
Again reserving final judgement until I get burn in done, can choose the right app and do some additional tuning (one of the things great about Android, the flexibility, but its also a curse). Will post final thoughts and HOPEFULLY not that the N8ii is up for sale once I've had some time with it after burn in.
My initial listen and from previous experience with Android DAPs I also tried Neutron, Power Amp, but did not have a chance to try UAPP, as many here are using.
Power Amp is a hard pass, and Neutron I will have to futz with as it never came off of 44.1khz even on FLAC test files I have that are 192khz, but looking like a pass also. Will try UAPP trial version after burn in.
Had a lot of back and forth on the Cayin Music Player, but it is finally sorting like I want. (again something I'm not fond of is the way Android Apps sort by default.)
The Cayin Music player has decent sound, but once burn in is complete will sit down to the task of choosing a player and really tuning it. (As well as items big and small to personal tastes, one example is the Lock Screen clock to be 12 hr instead of 24 hr clock. Figured out for the main clock, not the Lock Screen clock so far, something to do after burn in….Too many settings to go through?)
A curse or blessing with Android?

FW updated to 1.3 without any issues, and the battery readings are not only looking accurate but the battery settings are cycling as they should (have max battery set to 95%, and once it reaches there it discharges to about 70% then starts charging back to 95% and then repeats)

One of the things I do miss from my Lotoo DAPs with its OS, is the speed. While the N8ii is good as far as other Android DAPs I've owned, the Lotoo DAPs (PAW6K and LPGT) really do boot and shut down fast and are really snappy in response, maybe not as flexible as Android, but miss the speed none the less.
Their player also has a nice sound signature to it, hoping I can tune the N8ii to beat it, but as MVVRaz has already posted, he did not see a substantial improvement over the Lotoo DAPs, and specifically the PAW6K, my current DAP of choice, especially when combined with the Cayin C9.

Thanks to Twister6 and his comments earlier about chargers he’s tried.
The Anker model 711 30w Charger is working great during burn in.
Allows the device to play and go though the charge/discharge cycle without overheating, and its fast charging to slow charge cycling also.
Bonus is its size and it runs cool for a GaaN charger.

Also I've added a nice heatsink I found on Amazon that fits the N8ii perfectly
With the charger and the heatsink, even in Tubes/P/AB mode being used for burn in cycle (thank you Andy Kong for your recommendations in this thread for burn in settings) the device (and heatsink) is just barely warm to the touch, so I have confidence I can run it the next few days continuously and get burn in completed, without triggering the overheat protection
If anyone is interested this is the Heatsink I found on Amazon, and pictures of the N8ii on it are attached to this post
Was about $12 and available in several colors (150 mm x 85 mm x 12 mm/ 5.9 x 3.35 x 0.47 inch (L*W*T)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089QHMG5M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just want to thank all who have posted here for all of the information!
Nothing but the utmost respect for all I follow here and keeping fingers crossed I will enjoy as much as you all have.
Appreciate all the comments from everyone In this forum, both positive and not so for the N8ii, that have been posted, as they helped me decide to pull the trigger and take the chance.
Just wanted to give back to others who may be looking to move to the N8ii, and are on the fence one way or the other.
And of course all I have posted above is IMO, and YMMV

I am kind of a minimalist, less is more kind of guy, I feel the more items in the sound chain you may gain power and other things but coloration of the original creeps in, even the connecting wires... so I kind of appreciate the N8ii all in one ability to deliver decent drive intense musicality and natural presentation.
In my case I find the Hdb P AB Tube to be most satisfying, fuller well focused sound and wider sound stage and please if you are not streaming turn off the WiFi and you will immediately hear a very reasonable improvement in the sound, assuming the headphones and cables connecting it to the DAP can reveal that. And please don't forget the microSD card, get one that at least can go upto 160mb/sec read speed, if you play local files, most of the pro-versions of these cards will do that ...you will definitely hear a difference