Originally Posted by arirug /img/forum/go_quote.gif I use rechargeable batteries in the P3+. Do I have to take these out if I want to use the external power supply?
No, you can leave them in place while using external power.
The P3+ has upgraded components and additional sockets for opamp rolling in LR, Buffer and Ground. There are several ground provisions available, a virtual ground, and separated ground
iBassos use of the "4-Channel" does not mean audio channels as in surround sound, rather it is like a 2 monoblock amps with separate preamps. There is separation of the power supplies to avoid interaction.
I am not sure how all this relates to absolute sound quality in practice, although in theory it should result in better sound under demanding conditions.
IIRC, the P3 is 4-channel architecture and the D10 is 2-channel.
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Originally Posted by GreenLeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I look forward to seeing a D10+ though.
Can anyone tell me the difference between the P3+ and the P3 OEM in terms of the components and the SQ. Is the D10 2 channels? Can you please tell the advantages of 3 channels/4 channels over 2 channels as well?
Originally Posted by HiFlight /img/forum/go_quote.gif The P3+ has upgraded components and additional sockets for opamp rolling in LR, Buffer and Ground. There are several ground provisions available, a virtual ground, and separated ground
iBassos use of the "4-Channel" does not mean audio channels as in surround sound, rather it is like a 2 monoblock amps with separate preamps. There is separation of the power supplies to avoid interaction.
I am not sure how all this relates to absolute sound quality in practice, although in theory it should result in better sound under demanding conditions.
IIRC, the P3 is 4-channel architecture and the D10 is 2-channel.
Thanks Ron.
Just want to clarify one more thing:
P3+ use upgraded components. Does it means that P33+ is as good as the P3 OEM project one?
Can anyone tell me what the operating voltage on the opamps are? Is there a step up converter in there? A lot of opamps behave and sound bad at low voltage supply - lower than 10V, and some can't take more than 12V.
Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will be honest. I think the amp of the D10 is excellent. I don't think they really need to change it.
Agreed.
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Originally Posted by GreenLeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does it means that P3+ is as good as the P3 OEM project one?
No, difference btwn them are the voltage(P3+;9V, fi.Q;16V and 24V), variety for circuits, and main GND is fixed with LT1210CT7(That can provide 1.1A, you can choose output GND driver as you like), and the fi.Q is designed for driving higher performance headphones like E9 or HD650 on the go.
I have arrived at a combination of opamps that I consider to be suitable for Topkit status. The total number of opamps in the complete kit is (9).
There are, at this level of amp performance, just a few opamps that I think really bring a true sense of realism to the P3+
The complete kit consists of 2 sets of LR opamps, the AD743, and the AD744 running in output bypassed and biased to class A operation. Both of these opamps are deliver stunning performance in the P3+.
For buffers, I chose 2X stacked BUF634s. They deliver enough current to allow for full instrumental dynamics & transients and yet provide a good reserve of headroom.
For Ground I am using one Hi-C BUF634 in the G channel socket with a dummy opamp in the V socket.
These can be interchanged, delivering a noticeably different output presentation.
With the Hi-C 634 in G socket, soundstage is more open and airy, and somewhat removed from the listener. When reversed, the sound has more punch and impact, with a closer soundstage. Both sound very good, and it will be up to the user to choose their favorite, based on music type, headphones used, and personal preference.
Some of the components, such as the AD743s are interchangeable with other Topkits. The stacked buffers will soon be available as an optional item from iBasso. They are also an easy DIY mod, if you have 4 BUF634s.
I think that this Topkit will be offered alacarte, due to the large number of opamps involved.
It is also likely that the battery life will be shortened significantly, as the Hi-C BUF634 alone draws about 15ma.
I will so far as to say that while listening to the full kit, the soundstage, sense of ambience, imaging and perception of reality is equal to that of any amp I have ever owned.
Did you try tying pins 6 together on the G/V sockets?
Ok, I am using the 743's, stacked bUF6634 (found an extra pair) and the a dual opamp in the G/V (the one HiFlight liked but I can't remember the number).
I need to let it warm up but it does sound good. Very high definition and separated sounds.
Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will be honest. I think the amp of the D10 is excellent. I don't think they really need to change it.
I agree too, but I think part of the "sickness" of myself (and all head-fi members) is the curiosity about how I can improve my setup.
It can be summed up by the 6 Million Dollar Man catch phrase: "We can rebuild him...Better, Stronger, Faster".
Originally Posted by HiFlight /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will so far as to say that while listening to the full kit, the soundstage, sense of ambience, imaging and perception of reality is equal to that of any amp I have ever owned.
Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif Including your SAC K1000 amp?
I would say that with my Sony F1 phones, I can tell little difference between the two. Mostly I was using the F1s for my testing, as the soundstage differences are more easily heard with them.
The Heron+ performs WAY above its paygrade!
Off the topic a bit, I like the sound of the RWA Teac and Promethius TVC preamp better with K-1000s than I do with the SAC. I believe the highs are tamed a little better. Make me lust for a RWA 30.2!
Originally Posted by ryuzoh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed.
No, difference btwn them are the voltage(P3+;9V, fi.Q;16V and 24V), variety for circuits, and main GND is fixed with LT1210CT7(That can provide 1.1A, you can choose output GND driver as you like), and the fi.Q is designed for driving higher performance headphones like E9 or HD650 on the go.
Thanks for the reply, Ryuzoh.
Then I can drop this thread
and concentrate on the P3 OEM project and the announcement of the 2nd batch of the fi.Q.
I like the stock opamp, transistor buffers and the 6655 in the G/V socket. Very dynamic and open with good frequency extemes. Beautiful bass.
Edit:
With this configuration I get a nice distance from the sound, width and depth and very solid resonant bass. It is fun to explore the different opamps though. This thing is versatile.
Edit:
Ok using the AD744 in the G/V sockets. Nice. Very fast like G/V bypassed version but a little different sound.
Originally Posted by HiFlight /img/forum/go_quote.gif
For Ground I am using one Hi-C BUF634 in the G channel socket with a dummy opamp in the V socket.
These can be interchanged, delivering a noticeably different output presentation.
With the Hi-C 634 in G socket, soundstage is more open and airy, and somewhat removed from the listener. When reversed, the sound has more punch and impact, with a closer soundstage. Both sound very good, and it will be up to the user to choose their favorite, based on music type, headphones used, and personal preference.
If your running the amp with an open loop buffer as ground the effect is an unnatural wide soundstage. This is an errouneus sound. The ground has to be low impedance if you want a correct soundstage.
There are only a couple of device choices for the G and V channels: BUF634, iBasso transistor buffer, and the Dummy buffer. My choice was based on which one sounded most like a live performance. Neither of the 2 channels sounded unnaturally wide.
Of course, a wide variety of dual channel opamps can be used in the center socket, but this sort of defeats the option of using dedicated buffers in the G and V channels.
Although iBasso said that most any combination of buffers or opamps could be used in the 3 ground options, I didn't try bypassing both or using different buffers in both G and V sockets.
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