[olddude]

And, of course, if you use an amp through LO you use full volume (at least that is what JDS Labs says) and the gain settings on the DX50 do not affect the sound.

 

[Yanec]

  DX50 have a digital volume control, implemented in the WM8740 DAC
So, for best signal to noise, you must set this digital volume the higher you can, and the gain (low-mid-high) the lower you can
Start with low gain, and if you need a volume of 250 and + for correct sound level, go to the next higher gain setting (and lower the volume obviously...)

That's theoretically correct but practically if you match the volume level using low gain(with higher volume) and mid gain(with lower volume) the sonic characteristics are different.
 
I am not talking about noise floor and signal to noise.
 
The stage, the separation, the placement accuracy and the amplitude/response/ across the frequency range are just far better when using mid gain compared to low gain at the same volume level. With any given phones.
 
(Of course if you use an external amp - you use the LO and the internal amp has no effect. In this case the volume should definitely be set to the max to exclude the degrading effect of the digital volume control in the DX50.)

 

[CoiL]

 
That's theoretically correct but practically if you match the volume level using low gain(with higher volume) and mid gain(with lower volume) the sonic characteristics are different.
 
The stage, the separation, the placement accuracy and the amplitude/response/ across the frequency range are just far better when using mid gain compared to low gain at the same volume level. With any given phones.

Totally agree in case of DX50. I even use mid gain with my Piston V2.1 16Ohm and sound improves noticeably to better. 
I wonder if lower-ohm IEM`s (~10Ohm) can survive mid gain with DX50 and is it safe? Actually would like to know how much mW DX50 gives out in each gain setting. Couldn`t find it at homepage.
 
Edit: Found some figures: http://www.head-fi.org/t/675321/ibasso-dx50-vs-fiio-x3-comparison-thread/105#post_9907465

 

[Yanec]

  Totally agree in case of DX50. I even use mid gain with my Piston V2.1 16Ohm and sound improves noticeably to better. 
I wonder if lower-ohm IEM`s (~10Ohm) can survive mid gain with DX50 and is it safe? Actually would like to know how much mW DX50 gives out in each gain setting. Couldn`t find it at homepage.
 
Edit: Found some figures: http://www.head-fi.org/t/675321/ibasso-dx50-vs-fiio-x3-comparison-thread/105#post_9907465

Haven't tried 10 Ohms, still the DUNU DN-1000 was recommended in this thread as excellent fit with the DX50 and it is 10 Ohm.
 
I have tried 16 Ohm phones with DX50 without any issues. Even the budget-friendly Creative EP-830 (16 ohms, 106dB/mW) can take high gain and maximum volume without any trouble.
 
Regarding the comparison thread with the figures that you gave link to - I think that the DX50 with the right firmware and the right settings is no doubt the better choice over the fiio x3.

 

[Lilfurbal]

With all this talk of the dunu 1000 headphones, I decided to place an order for the dunu 2000 headphones to try out with the dx50, and to try out in general.  They are 16 ohm compared to the 1000's 10 ohm.  Not really familiar with this brand , figured I'd aim high.  

 

[olddude]

Sometimes newer/more expensive is not "better."  I've read some comments about how the 1000 is better.  YMMV.

 

[nihontoman]

Where did you get that? As far as I know DX50 uses digital volume control. So it uses but shifting. Why would LO volume is also affected by the volume control if it's implementing an analog volume control?

iBasso also recommends setting volume to max when using LO.

What you are saying about volume control does not add up.

ibasso themselves said that. it is floating around somewhere on this forum. they just change voltage AFTER the signal has become analog, just like Fiio E6 does when changing volume of the signal it gets
 
 
also, even if it were bit shifting, IMO when the noise floor is so much higher on LOW gain compared to HIGH gain, it would be much better for SQ to set it at high gain and listen to less bits... that's what the higher bitrate is there for - lower noise floor resulting in higher dynamic range - right?

 

[babs]

You are right, this relate only to absolute signal to noise, not to the SQ
If you notice a big difference between Low and Mid gain, this must be related to the behavior of the output amplifiers of the DX50
Some amplifiers need more gain to keep THD low, or drive low impedance ...etc
Note: very few operational amplifiers are designed to drive less than 600ohms.
 
I personally hear no obvious differences between Lo and Mid gain, But I have a modded DX50 with high speed high current output amplifiers
I use a low impedance IEM (senn. IE8: 16ohms)

 

[headwhacker]

 
ibasso themselves said that. it is floating around somewhere on this forum. they just change voltage AFTER the signal has become analog, just like Fiio E6 does when changing volume of the signal it gets
 
 
also, even if it were bit shifting, IMO when the noise floor is so much higher on LOW gain compared to HIGH gain, it would be much better for SQ to set it at high gain and listen to less bits... that's what the higher bitrate is there for - lower noise floor resulting in higher dynamic range - right?

 
If it's floating around it should turn up pretty quick. But I can't find any reference yet
 
Why would you say the noise floor is higher on Low gain than the higher gain? Remember the function of the amp is to amplify the signal from the intput. Every component in the chain emit some sort of noise and it's cumulative. So setting the amplifier to higher gain will not only amplifier the audio signal but the noise as well.  Shifting bits in digital volume control reduces SNR. But with a DAC with higher bit depth, the impact is not as noticeable as lower bit depth.
 
ESS internally use 32-bits to control volume on there 24-bit DAC to further mitigate the impact of digital volume control. There is a youtube video posted somewhere about this topic either here or the DX90 thread. It is a good read.
 
The hiss people hear with sensitive iems on low gain may have been caused by emi or other factors and not necessarily the noise floor.
 
Coincidentally, even DX90 sounds the best at medium gain even on low impedance sensitive phone.

 

[CoiL]

Okay, I think atm I give up on USB-DAC driver + different plugins and players/programs (ASIO, KSP, WASAPI etc.). I don`t know if problems lay in W7x64, ASIO etc. drivers or DX50 drivers or programs compability etc. Yes, they are beta and I`m not going to whine about it. I do hope day comes when drivers are signed and support WDM,WASAPI,KSP,ASIO etc. and don`t have so much compability issues + some more OS support. 
I actually don`t care much about DAC function because line-out to my speaker system is just awesome sounding with SU1.2.3 and like with cans - irr off/on makes difference. OFF = almost like my modified Aune T1 DAC with Siemens E88CC tube with larger airy soundstage and smooth "live" dynamics, ON = more detail and closer soundstage (with a bit wider imaging), better for analytical listening.
 
That was actually also one of reasons I bought DX50 - music on my table without messing with PC. Just turn on, push play and music heaven follows ;P
Large mSD card support that can accommodate easily all my lossless music + exchangeable high capacity battery if on the run + wall charger option + OTG USB function to play songs from friends USB for example + physical buttons + touchscreen + LO + SDPIF out + HO (3 gain options as we know) + custom FW`s with different sound flavors ...what more to want?

 

[Lilfurbal]

  Sometimes newer/more expensive is not "better."  I've read some comments about how the 1000 is better.  YMMV.

 
I've only read comments of the 2000 being better, though with the 1000 potentially having more bass.  So I went off what the majority was suggesting from the research I was able to do.  
 
What I'm more concerned with however is how they compare to my current headphones, which were $350 at the time they were bought (klipsch x10).  The 2000's are cheaper than those were out of the box, and also cheaper than the x11i's which are also $350.  I was convinced enough that a cheaper pair of headphones might have something on what I'm already use to,  I've heard of other x10 owners upgrading to the dunu 2000.  I look forward to directly comparing these two headphones, tomorrow apparently.  Amazon prime shipping and all.  
 
Decision wasn't so much between the 1000 and the 2000 as it was between what is most similarly priced to what I currently have, want to see how like priced items compare... for fun really. 

 

[nihontoman]

   
If it's floating around it should turn up pretty quick. But I can't find any reference yet
 
Why would you say the noise floor is higher on Low gain than the higher gain? Remember the function of the amp is to amplify the signal from the intput. Every component in the chain emit some sort of noise and it's cumulative. So setting the amplifier to higher gain will not only amplifier the audio signal but the noise as well.  Shifting bits in digital volume control reduces SNR. But with a DAC with higher bit depth, the impact is not as noticeable as lower bit depth.
 
ESS internally use 32-bits to control volume on there 24-bit DAC to further mitigate the impact of digital volume control. There is a youtube video posted somewhere about this topic either here or the DX90 thread. It is a good read.
 
The hiss people hear with sensitive iems on low gain may have been caused by emi or other factors and not necessarily the noise floor.
 
Coincidentally, even DX90 sounds the best at medium gain even on low impedance sensitive phone.

 
 
I remember it quite clearly. it should be here. I'll try and look it up. it shouldn't be that weird though, considering so many of the portable amplifiers (like Fiio e6) use a method like that for changing the volume... I mean there's no DAC in E6 and it somehow manages to change the volume of the analog signal that is fed to it...
 
as for noise floor, maybe I'm using the term "noise floor" incorrectly, but I'm referring to constant and unchanging hiss/hum (even when changing volumes, it is the same on silent audio files and when it's just connected to HO) that decreases on the mid gain and even more on the high gain. if the noise floor is exclusive for DACs than I'm not sure what to call the hiss that is present on DX50s HO, but it is noise, and it is the least noticeable on highest gain

 

[CoiL]

That`s what I also remember reading from somewhere that vol changing is implemented differently and not regulated by DAC chip. But I might be mistaken and don`t have any references to share.

 

[nihontoman]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/679473/the-ibasso-dx50-thread-latest-firmware-1-5-0/8205#post_10049737
 
 
here is the post.  headwhacker   you should've looked a bit better

 

[headwhacker]

^ Thanks