[Comfy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif nice...i think you've pretty much killed my curiosity of wanting to try balanced. that sounds like the perfect headphone.

Stax are balanced.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Based on the top stat rigs I've heard, I also have to agree. The highs sound extremely artificial to me -- someone else described them as "wispy" and I concur. I have not heard the O2mk2 or any other stat on the Blue Hawaii and some say it's superb, perhaps it is. For the best of both worlds (stat and dynamic) -- fast transients, huge, open soundstage and great impact, the HD800 is hard to beat. If you haven't experienced them yet balanced and with a nice cable, you haven't come close to hearing their full potential.

The HD-800s come the closest for me to the natural speed of 'stats. If anything, a lot of dynamic cans often just sound like they are trying, and not succeeding after listening with a good Stax rig. However, you don't get quite the same punch with 'stats that you do with dynamic cans, as a dynamic driver simply has more movement. 'Stats though often have a larger surface area, so there's none of the "tiny speaker next to my ear" effect you often get with many headphones.

Going by things you've said, maybe you simply prefer the punch of dynamic cans over the more delicate sound of 'stats. If you're a detail-junkie, you will never get a dynamic that will beat a pair of O2s IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comfy /img/forum/go_quote.gif And all this with no distortion whatsoever. No etch, no lack of soul, no upper-mids bump. Just pure, unadulterated sonic pleasure.

I like to describe electrostats not by what they can do, but what, compared to regular headphones, they don't have as faults. Questions of detail, speed, sibilance and harshness fairly don't exist in the world of electrostats, at least not in the same way they do in the dynamic world.

Something not to forget is the music being listened to. The benefits of any headphone or kind of headphone are lost if they don't benefit the owner and their preferred music, eg: You don't need ultra-detail for regular pop music.

 

[Comfy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't need ultra-detail for regular pop music.

That's a matter of opinion, in this obsessive-compulsive hobby of ours. But if one has to choose, I'd trade ultra-detail for ultra-euphonics, if I had to listen to, say, Britney Spears for over a minute.

Then again, I very much enjoy the lo-fi rattle, hum and feedback of a White Stripes album, when listened with a very detailed setup. And I don't understand the people who suggest otherwise.

 

[GuyDebord]

For me the o2 comes closer to the sound i love. Transparent, musical, effortless and natural, I love how the stats just disappear. I have never heard a dynamic can do well on this terms, the closest are the k1000, but absolutely not the hd800. The hd800 has grain and renders with a level of precision which becomes unnatural, harsh and clinical, not my cup of tea. Other good dynamics that I have heard are always colored and struggle to be musical and natural, ultimately painting the music.

Without question, I would go for the BHSE or WES, someday soon...

 

[kh6idf]

Interesting thread considering I have just switched from dynamics to stats myself. I sold my Grado sr325's (old black model - quite nice sounding - ask pdupiano, he has them now) and am currently using the Stax SRS-2050II set (thanks ub3rmario).

I didn't use an especially great amp with the 325s, I used a Behringer SRC2496 headphone output. Although it kept impressing me the more I listened to it, I faced a choice of investing in a higher grade dynamic amp or trying the entry-level Stax. I felt these were my two options to move to the next level and I didn't want to spend what it would take to examine both options at the same time.

I decided to go the Stax route for now. Back in college I had the Stax electrets for a while and remember how good they were and wanted to experience that sound again, hopefully even better with a true electrostat. There wasn't a lot of information or reviews on the 2050II system, but there were enough comments from satisfied owners that I felt like it would be worth exploring, and so far it definitely is - I feel like it is a move up the ladder from where I was although there are SOME qualities about the 325s that I miss. But there are many areas where the stats are better - it's new territory to explore. Perhaps I will return to dynamics in a future upgrade or continue down the elecrostat path. If funds were unlimited I would have both but with finite resources it's better to concentrate on getting the best possible setup for the money rather than spreading it too thin.

 

[krmathis]

Either way will most probably get you "there".
Just be prepared to put quite a lot of money into proper amplification. I have a couple of each and have a really hard time picking a favorite. They all shine, just in their different way.

Enjoy!

 

[32y0]

Interesting thread, I'm wondering how something like a Koss ESP950 will sound compared to balanced HD600/DT880.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Something not to forget is the music being listened to. The benefits of any headphone or kind of headphone are lost if they don't benefit the owner and their preferred music, eg: You don't need ultra-detail for regular pop music.

And this remains my biggest complaint with reviews of headphones. When you use speakers, you don't have multiple pairs to listen to for different types of music. If you did, it would be one heck of a hassle to switch them out. Likewise, why should it be any different with headphones (even though it's not nearly the hassle)? I don't want to be switching out headphones for different types of musics. I find that to be silly. I want one pair that does everything exceptionally well, and the HD800 can do it. If you've developed your system to a point where tonality and impact are natural and sound as they do in real life, this will apply to all music and there will be no need to grab for another pair of phones. Not everyone builds their system around one pair of phones so they need to use multiple pairs of headphones to achieve their desired sound. But I think it's much more rewarding and easy to have one pair of phones and a system that does everything well. At the very most all you should need is two pairs of phones, one open and one closed (perhaps for isolation purposes) but that would be the extent of it for me if I even pursued a closed phone which I doubt I will do since I can't afford an R10. I would only have the desire to replace the HD800 with something better, not add another "flavor" to the collection.

 

[Deadneddz]

If a phone is heavily genre specific then it really isn't a great phone. What I mean by heavily genre specific is that it just doesnt play music well on a technical level but its colorations can be pleasing in some specific genres. Take for instance the Grado RS1. Although these phones might be considered to be genre specific it really does no harm other than having heavy colorations. It still can be a good phone on a technical level, but its colorations are far enough from neutral, so in this case I would not consider the RS1s heavily genre specific. The sound is just too far from neutral so its presentation can seem genre specific while its techincal abilities are not.

There is a point to have different headphones, and although there are many headphones(with the right system) that can portray great fidelity on a wide range of genres, there are different presentations on that great sound. Take something like the HE90 or SR-Omega, which the engineers designed with a "speaker like" presentation in mind or the O2 and HD800 which have more "pin-point" accuracy and portray music with greater layering and cohesivness. Both types can be used to listen to a wide range of genres well when driven by a stong amp and a good source.

But when listening to a modern day pop or rock song, you may like the presentation of a headphone that has more focus on separation and accuracy, while on a recording that has tons of ambient cues, with little to no complicated sections, you may like the presentation of a phone that can portray a greater sense of air and openess. Some phones are able to play seemingly all genres with great fidelity but the presentation of certain phones may suit you better depending on what you're listening too.

 

[wower]

I was hoping against the odds a great consensus would emerge that would make future decisions easy. I must of have been crazy. At the moment I'm swayed by arguments for one great phone and I can see the value in every dollar spent on the one rig that plays all music equally extraordinarily.

I came to the following conclusion as the discussion evolved: I have to admit that I don't see wanting to have three top phones on hand essentially mean each is tied to a specific genre. Sure one speaker system has to many genres well. But isn't this generally a factor of money and space and not ability or desire. There is no fundamental reason to hold the same to be true for headphones and amps as a hobby as for large stereos? In my mind I guess I was thinking as each different phone being tied to what mood I might be in, and if that correlated with specific genres it would be a total after thought on my part. I will always have a decent stereo set up. Maybe one of those nice Luxman 40 wpc intergrateds from TTVJ one day with good top shelf book shelf speakers. But I plan to live in an apartment for a long time to come and love the headphone hobby which meshes this lifestyle so well and I just don't think I have to apply the same aims of large stereos to headphones as a hobby, expect perhaps in the aim of good music and good value for the dollar.

 

[earwicker7]

To me, it's all about clarity (low level details and such). If I want thumping bass, I have my car.

Stats rule!

 

[gilency]

In my limited experience with headphones I don't see myself buying another pair of dynamics any time soon, not even the HD800's.
Even with the Stax 404's, I get lost for hours listening to their clear sound. The SR-007's (may be Jade's) are my next pair, to be followed by a better amplifier. That is pretty much the extent of my upgraditis.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilency /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my limited experience with headphones I don't see myself buying another pair of dynamics any time soon, not even the HD800's. Even with the Stax 404's, I get lost for hours listening to their clear sound. The SR-007's (may be Jade's) are my next pair, to be followed by a better amplifier. That is pretty much the extent of my upgraditis.

After realizing that my Lambda Signatures sounded better without the foam behind the drivers, I also removed the foam from behind the 404. It's now a very different phone, relaxed mid's, nothing much you could call an "etch." Sure the 007 is better but you might want to try this mod before you plunk down $2K.

 

[vcoheda]

i prefer my 800/B52 over my O2/KGSS. i am actually thinking of selling my stats to focus on my dynamics.

 

[wavoman]

I agree re the Stax ... with both the 717, and the KGSS, I find the 404s just slightly behind the Lambda Sigs, and those just slightly behind the O2s. Very slight. The 404s and the LS's are not modded. The O2s are Mk II 007a's with the Spritzer mod (by Spritzer himself!).

My main rig is like Dave's (vcoheda), we're NY/NJ twins, using a Beta 22 (balanced) for dynamics, and a (non-special) KGSS for the 'stats. I need both ... different moods as I've said before ... could never sell the 'stats. Yea I know, I don't have 800s, maybe that would change my mind, but I doubt it.