The Hi-Fi + Hi-Res Audiophiles' Bluetooth Headphone Adapter Thread - [17.Oct.21] iFi GO Blu impression added
Jan 20, 2023 at 12:54 AM Post #1,231 of 1,312
All electronic components in a device generate some level of unwanted noise when it is in operation (as physic tells us that energy is always lost since no system is perfect, and some of the energy lost in a circuit becomes noise). Noise is basically whatever signal that is not part of the original / intended signal and is added by the circuit itself. Typically in the old days, loudspeaker system can pass with a 10% distortion / noise test. On most personal audio devices these days, general consensus is that you need to be 1% or less (about -40dB) to claim to be 'Hi Fi' (as 1% is generally believed to be the threshold of obvious detection on noise/distortion). But for true audiophiles equipment, we usually looking for 0.0x% for minimum or even 0.00x% (-60 to -100 dB range) as norm. Simply put, we want the source to reproduce the music as faithfully as possible.

I am personally on the school that some coloration can be beneficial, but only on a limited scope. Any source device should have it's basic engineering done correctly, then whatever fine-tuning / coloration can take place from that. Coloration is NOT and should NEVER be allowed to be a free pass for bad engineering.

As for how a person's ear can lie and how a reviewer might not even know he /she is biased, here are two examples of mine: First, Shanling UP4 - early reviews and impressions all praised how good it was, but my first two week of listening told me something was way off. I actually ended up building some special cable rig just to measure it and the result was that it has really bad distortion and phase mismatch. I reported the issue here in this thread, Shanling took notice and released a new firmware to address the issue. While UP4 never did measure as great as it's competition, at least it was decent enough after firmware update. That bakes the question of how those early reviewers could have missed distortion and phase mismatch so bad and praised UP4 for it? My guess is that either they never did listen to UP4 before writing or they simply have really crappy hearing. Either way, that's not good for those who are misled by their review. Will however give credit to Shanling as they learned from their mistake and UP5 has really good measurement. Second example is iBasso CF01 - I immediately noticed it has weak output and caused severe coloration to my multi-driver IEM. Again, made a special cable rig to measure it and turned out it has 20 ohm of output impedance (and for reference, any thing that designed to drive multi-driver IEM, such as CF01, should have 1 ohm or less in output impedance in order to avoid any coloration). Almost all the reviews I found on CF01 at the time just praised how great CF01 was, but none mentions it has super weak output power (probably in single digit mW range) and it completely change the FR curve on most if not all multi-driver IEM. Surprisingly no one noticed any of that when it only took me less than 10 minutes to feel something is way off. After my reporting in the forum, iBasso rep actually had the audacity to refute my claim and said my measurement was wrong as they CF01 has only 1 ohm of output impedance and would provide proof. Well, they never did - though I got confirmation from another CF01 owner that his CF01 measured the same as mine.

Measurement is not the end of everything, but it does help us - including users, reviewers, manufacturers and the community as a whole, keep a heathy and honest opinion to our hobby. For me personally, I always take reviews with big grain of salt.
Thanks a lot for this great post! And I can confirm what you write about the CF01 - I bought one used (at least for a very cheap price) and for me, too, it was immediately evident that the device weakened the sub bass of almost any of my IEMs by quite a lot. I guess because the SQ coming out of it is quite relative to the IEM it is used with, due to the impedance issue, a lot of reviewers have interpreted this each in their own way. I think it generally brightens the sound, so there is (maybe) an illusion of more clarity than other comparable devices.
 
Jan 20, 2023 at 2:07 AM Post #1,232 of 1,312
1. Fixing own ****-ups is hardly a reason for boasting.
2. You never acknowledged that there was a problem that needed fixing.
3. You showed your corporate middle finger to all those early adopters, who trusted you and bought their units based on your statements that Go Blu is indeed a good product. Clearly it was not.

I was merely saying that the community's take on our products often gives us ideas how to make them better, which is not boasting I think. Either way, thanks for your feedback :)
 
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Jan 20, 2023 at 3:20 AM Post #1,233 of 1,312
I was merely saying that the community's take on our products often gives us ideas how to make them better,

This is not the case of customers offering ideas to make a product better.

This is the case of selling a poorly designed product. You rushed Go Blu to market at the expense of early adopters.

For months, you were in denial and now you announce how you listen and improve products based on customer feedback.

The crappy BT range feedback should not have come form early customers, it should have come from your Quality Control Dept.
 
Jan 20, 2023 at 6:57 AM Post #1,234 of 1,312
This is not the case of customers offering ideas to make a product better.

This is the case of selling a poorly designed product. You rushed Go Blu to market at the expense of early adopters.

For months, you were in denial and now you announce how you listen and improve products based on customer feedback.

The crappy BT range feedback should not have come form early customers, it should have come from your Quality Control Dept.

I hear you, but just to clarify, a rather small part of the entire first run of GO blu units was affected and we were able to overcome this issue also thanks to the feedback we got here. That's all there is to it really. Thanks!
 
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Jan 20, 2023 at 3:00 PM Post #1,235 of 1,312
You are totally missing the point or pretending to. Whatever.

My gripe is simple:
  • iFi released to market a poorly designed product;
  • When early customers (and reviewers) started reporting useless BT range, iFi denied that such a problem existed;
  • Nevertheless, iFi secretly introduced some design changes and indeed BT range improved.
Had iFi been honest, it would address the issue openly and offer the early customers a replacement or at least a discount on a new purchase. But this would costs money, so denial was the strategy of choice for iFi (and still is). Greed, just greed :thumbsdown:

EoT as far as I am concerned.
 
Jan 20, 2023 at 4:29 PM Post #1,236 of 1,312
EoT as far as I am concerned.

Sure thing, I've already said what we as the manufacturer had to say on the subject and it's fine that you're not seeing it the same way. We can't please everyone, but we're trying though! Thanks :)
 
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Jan 21, 2023 at 5:45 AM Post #1,237 of 1,312
This is really bad in my book IFI.

I bought a unit when first released.
Sent it back because of the range.
Purchased a second unit months later and was very happy with it.
Its a fantastic little thing.
I feel sorry for the first batch buyer's.

Please IFi learn from this and don’t do it again.
This will cost you customers in the long run.

I know I won’t be buying any IFi products when first released.
I shall wait several months.

Maybe you can show the early adopters some love ?
Maybe a discount on the GO Blu 2?
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 8:39 AM Post #1,238 of 1,312
This is really bad in my book IFI.

I bought a unit when first released.
Sent it back because of the range.
Purchased a second unit months later and was very happy with it.
Its a fantastic little thing.
I feel sorry for the first batch buyer's.

Please IFi learn from this and don’t do it again.
This will cost you customers in the long run.

I know I won’t be buying any IFi products when first released.
I shall wait several months.

Maybe you can show the early adopters some love ?
Maybe a discount on the GO Blu 2?

I hear you and I shall pass on your feedback internally, thanks! In general, we're here to support our customers and each person with the range issue in Go blu was well taken care of. Just saying :)
 
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Jan 30, 2023 at 9:10 AM Post #1,239 of 1,312
we're here to support our customers and each person with the range issue in Go blu was well taken care of. Just saying :)

Sorry, but this is total bull.

The right response should be: "We are here to amplify the positive remarks of our customers and totally ignore those who have issues, problems or are simply unhappy with the performance of our products".

Nothing personal, but iFi's reaction to Go Blu's crappy BT range was pathetic from day one and continues to be so :thumbsdown:
 
Feb 8, 2023 at 9:42 PM Post #1,242 of 1,312
Any news on the Bluetooth amp/dac front with some of the newer Qualcomm or LC3/LE Audio support?
Thinking Qudelix 5K/Xduoo/BTR style.

Most of the current gen BT DAC/amp comes with the QCC512x (5125 as the most common I see) with BT5.0. It is very likely Qualcomm will be able to upgrade these older chip to BT5.2 (which mandates LC3/LE support) by firmware if they wanted to, but Qualcomm is know to be very slow on firmware update, often took years if at all. It is more likely we are going to see new DAC/amp with native BT5.2 chip coming out first. Besides, LC3/LE is not meant as a better sounding codec but a more efficient codec, so if you are already on LDAC / aptX Adaptive, chance are you will not notice any real SQ improvement.
 
Feb 13, 2023 at 8:42 AM Post #1,243 of 1,312
Anybody know which bluetooth amp has wireless charging? I think I saw one but cant find it anymore.
 

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