[ClieOS]

Can some of you guys perhaps help me out?

It has finally come to it: Had to upgrade my phone, of course no headphone jack.
Had the BTR5 on my list, but now came across a video on Youtube basically saying it's sounding bad and the UP4 is the superior device.
Now I don't know how credible this guy is since he might be a click bait contrarian in order to get some views, but the release of the BTR3K didn't help in making a choice either.

Here in Europe I'd pay around 63€ for the BTR3K and 90€ for the BTR5. Shanling is out of contention since they're more expensive to import.
Money isn't really the issue, but I'll be mainly using the 3.5 Jack since I don't own balanced cables for my main IEMs.
I'll also be using the device as a DAC when I'm on travels since my laptop has a really bad sound output (thanks, Lenovo).

What kind of device would you say makes more sense to purchase? Since I saw ClieOS BTR3K write up, I think this might be the right device for me, but the DAC in the BTR5 sounds more appealing (on paper at least).

If you need the extra power and better USB DAC function (*namely for Hi-res and DSD), then BTR5 makes more sense. If you prefer portability / simplicity and a higher value factor, then BTR3K makes better sense.

UP4 has its own issues, which I have discussed. It won't be a completely bad buy if it is the only BT adapter of its kind at its price range. The problem is that there are noticeably better options for the same (or less) money that have none of those issues. The important point about any review is of course that you have no idea the quality of the reviewer and thus you don't know how reliable and relatable his/her particular review is going to be after you factor in personal taste / bias. This is where measurement can be helpful on making sure that the gear in question will at least objectively be issue-free on the basics..

 

[jsmiller58]

Can some of you guys perhaps help me out?

It has finally come to it: Had to upgrade my phone, of course no headphone jack.
Had the BTR5 on my list, but now came across a video on Youtube basically saying it's sounding bad and the UP4 is the superior device.
Now I don't know how credible this guy is since he might be a click bait contrarian in order to get some views, but the release of the BTR3K didn't help in making a choice either.

Here in Europe I'd pay around 63€ for the BTR3K and 90€ for the BTR5. Shanling is out of contention since they're more expensive to import.
Money isn't really the issue, but I'll be mainly using the 3.5 Jack since I don't own balanced cables for my main IEMs.
I'll also be using the device as a DAC when I'm on travels since my laptop has a really bad sound output (thanks, Lenovo).

What kind of device would you say makes more sense to purchase? Since I saw ClieOS BTR3K write up, I think this might be the right device for me, but the DAC in the BTR5 sounds more appealing (on paper at least).

The BTR5 is very versatile - good sounding via BT (I exclusively use LDAC), good power to even drive reasonable headphones, and a competent USB DAC/Amp. If you think you can make use of all that, then the BTR5 is a great option.

If just for BT for IEMs I don’t know if it is worth paying much of a premium... I have several BT adapters (BTR5, W5, W3, es100) and honestly with IEMs they are pretty much alike from sound quality. The es100 has a built in EQ function that some people really value, but I never use it.

 

[Synthy]

This is where measurement can be helpful on making sure that the gear in question will at least objectively be issue-free on the basics..

i've been looking around, does any reviewer do measurements for bluetooth receivers/adapters? i haven't been able to find any.

 

[benandfaith]

Considering entering into world of bluetooth dac/amp.

Is there a sound quality improvement using my sub-$50 chifi IEMs with BTR3K versus plugging IEM directly into my smartphone (S10+ Exynos)?

 

[IEManiac]

Considering entering into world of bluetooth dac/amp.

Is there a sound quality improvement using my sub-$50 chifi IEMs with BTR3K versus plugging IEM directly into my smartphone (S10+ Exynos)?

Reportedly S10+ headphone jack output is pretty good. I'd spend the money on a nice IEM instead.

 

[ClieOS]

i've been looking around, does any reviewer do measurements for bluetooth receivers/adapters? i haven't been able to find any.

Not that I know of, at least not in any extensive way that worth a reading. The problem only gets worst with too many casual Youtube reviewers all trying to get a piece of the action but often only coming up short on technical aspects. I do basic measurement on what I do own, but I don't post them unless there is issue worth talking about.

 

[ClieOS]

Reportedly S10+ headphone jack output is pretty good. I'd spend the money on a nice IEM instead.

There are plenty of reason why smartphone makes a bad source for IEM, and many of them are not in plain sight. For example, many smartphone has really high output impedance (*Apple generally is pretty good on keep it low, but still in the 10 ohm or less range. Many Android smartphones have output impedance on the 50 ohm range, if not more), which ends up messing with the cross-over inside the IEM and makes it sounds different than what it would have normally sounded like. Most smartphone also has poor output power, which meant you will never get as good a sound you should get with a decent source. Of course, some (and often really expensive and good sounding) IEM have extremely low impedance also worsen the problem.

Of course, it also depends largely on what level of 'good' the listener is willing to settle on. There is an old Chinese saying that roughly means: you will only get mad at yourself once you start to compare yourself to everyone else.

 

[benandfaith]

There are plenty of reason why smartphone makes a bad source for IEM, and many of them are not in plain sight. For example, many smartphone has really high output impedance (*Apple generally is pretty good on keep it low, but still in the 10 ohm or less range. Many Android smartphones have output impedance on the 50 ohm range, if not more), which ends up messing with the cross-over inside the IEM and makes it sounds different than what it would have normally sounded like. Most smartphone also has poor output power, which meant you will never get as good a sound you should get with a decent source.

So, would bypassing the phone and going with btr3k bring noticeable improvement?

 

[ClieOS]

So, would bypassing the phone and going with btr3k bring noticeable improvement?

My smartphone is a Sony Xperia 5 that doesn't come with a 3.5mm headphone output, I can't answer for a Samsung S10+ unless you want to loan me one to try out. I do have my doubt that any smartphone can have headphone-out as good as BTR3K's.

 

[IEManiac]

There are plenty of reason why smartphone makes a bad source for IEM, and many of them are not in plain sight. For example, many smartphone has really high output impedance (*Apple generally is pretty good on keep it low, but still in the 10 ohm or less range. Many Android smartphones have output impedance on the 50 ohm range, if not more), which ends up messing with the cross-over inside the IEM and makes it sounds different than what it would have normally sounded like. Most smartphone also has poor output power, which meant you will never get as good a sound you should get with a decent source. Of course, some (and often really expensive and good sounding) IEM have extremely low impedance also worsen the problem.

Of course, it also depends largely on what level of 'good' the listener is willing to settle on. There is an old Chinese saying that roughly means: you will only get mad at yourself once you start to compare yourself to everyone else.

Plenty of smartphones that suffer from none of those problems. You should give a more balanced assessment. He asked specifically about the S10+ and you denounced the entire gamut.

Single-driver IEMs don't have crossovers. In any case, the problem of too high Rout transcends the use of crossovers.

There are reasons to think that a stand alone DAC with measure and sound better than a phone. But it is altogether possible, indeed likely that standalone DACs and phone headphone jacks wiil sound identical, leaving power aside, because their performance is beyond the threshold of human perception.

More nuance and balance is in order here. Particularly since you, we don't have objective indicators in which to make a solid declaration and since decisions based on no objective data are not expenditure neutral. The S10+ otoh does have tests.

No need for smug or veiled contempt with so-called Chinese wisdom. Your ears are no better or worse than anyone else's here.

 

[ClieOS]

Plenty of smartphones that suffer from none of those problems. You should give a more balanced assessment. He asked specifically about the S10+ and you denounced the entire gamut.

Single-driver IEMs don't have crossovers. In any case, the problem of too high Rout transcends the use of crossovers.

There are reasons to think that a stand alone DAC with measure and sound better than a phone. But it is altogether possible, indeed likely that standalone DACs and phone headphone jacks wiil sound identical, leaving power aside, because their performance is beyond the threshold of human perception.

More nuance and balance is in order here.

Please give me examples of plenty of these "no problem" smartphones then. I am merely giving a general assessment of what I have read about on actual measurements on Apple and Samsung smartphones (among others) in the past, many can be found here in the forums older threads, reported by people who bother to actually measured their smartphone headphone-out, not just based on guess work. You don't seem to own a S10+ yourself, so what factual evidence or personal experience you have to say S10+ is good besides what you have read somewhere else? Besides, we don't even know which IEM @benandfaith owns to say it must be a single driver. You can find plenty of cheap multi-driver Chi-fi IEM on the market these days. Assuming he will only stick to single driver IEM is unrealistic. Instead of best case scenario, I am more inclined to assume it is likely not and rather give advice that not only works for what he has now, but possibly also for what he will get in the future.

 

[thekenta]

If you need the extra power and better USB DAC function (*namely for Hi-res and DSD), then BTR5 makes more sense. If you prefer portability / simplicity and a higher value factor, then BTR3K makes better sense.

If just for BT for IEMs I don’t know if it is worth paying much of a premium... I have several BT adapters (BTR5, W5, W3, es100) and honestly with IEMs they are pretty much alike from sound quality. The es100 has a built in EQ function that some people really value, but I never use it.

Thanks, guys.
Decided on the BTR3K because of size factor, longer battery life and me probably not using the 2.5mm jack.

 

[jsmiller58]

Thanks, guys.
Decided on the BTR3K because of size factor, longer battery life and me probably not using the 2.5mm jack.

I hope you are thrilled with your choice (and I am sure you will be). Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[MewCore]

Is anybody else experiencing volume drop by 4db as soon as they enable the EQ in FiiO Control app?

 

[hkpants]

Is anybody else experiencing volume drop by 4db as soon as they enable the EQ in FiiO Control app?

EQ functions typically have a negative pre-gain to prevent clipping/distortion.