[theaudiologist]

apparently yes, it's 32 bit floating point PCM

 

[A_Man_Eating_Duck]

If you want to use FLAC you'll need to convert it from float to integer, which foobar2000 is doing automatically for you. You can force it to convert from 32bit float to 32bit int by going in to the converter setup > output format | change the output bit depth from auto to 32-bit (sorry, just tested this and you are right, just converts to 24bit). This is not a lossless process but it should be very difficult \ impossible to hear the difference.

If you do find a very noticeable difference please post a small source sample (10-20seconds) so we can demonstrate the problem to the Foobar2000 devs just in case you have uncovered a bug.

 

[castleofargh]

are people really selling 32bit records? I can understand having 32bit ability in a DAW to get ever more headroom for some reason, but I don't know of an ADC capable of resolving 32bit(and for which purpose? listen to ants in the wall 2 rooms apart? and then of course there is that other small detail, no sound system can output even 24 bit resolution to this day, let alone 32bit.
 so why would music be exported to 32bit?

 

[headdict]

  are people really selling 32bit records? I can understand having 32bit ability in a DAW to get ever more headroom for some reason, but I don't know of an ADC capable of resolving 32bit(and for which purpose? listen to ants in the wall 2 rooms apart? and then of course there is that other small detail, no sound system can output even 24 bit resolution to this day, let alone 32bit.
 so why would music be exported to 32bit?

Come on, you already know the reason. More bits sell for more bucks. Simple math.
 
Just out of curiosity: Does anybody know how to calculate the dynamic range of 32 bit floating point PCM? I'm sure it makes a huge difference, maybe even a measurable one. Too bad we human beings can't hear it. We can still see and compare the numbers, though, and we tend to take numbers very seriously. Today many smartphones have a 64 bit architecture. When will we see 64 bit audio files?

 

[RRod]

 
Come on, you already know the reason. More bits sell for more bucks. Simple math.
 
Just out of curiosity: Does anybody know how to calculate the dynamic range of 32 bit floating point PCM? I'm sure it makes a huge difference, maybe even a measurable one. Too bad we human beings can't hear it. We can still see and compare the numbers, though, and we tend to take numbers very seriously. Today many smartphones have a 64 bit architecture. When will we see 64 bit audio files?

 
http://diwaves.com/tmp/sample_bits.htm

 

[headdict]

   
http://diwaves.com/tmp/sample_bits.htm

Very interesting! So floating point has no dynamic range advantage over integer. Why is it used then?

 

[RRod]

 
Very interesting! So floating point has no dynamic range advantage over integer. Why is it used then?

 
The article lists these advantages:

  Unlike with integers, and because the mantissa is normalized, the quantization error is not fixed. It is relative to each sample value. This has important advantages over integers:
1)The effective resolution for every sample is the full resolution that the mantissa allows, while the effective resolution of an equivalent size integer corresponds only to the significant bits used by the actual value.
2)The SNR is constant regardless of the signal level.
3)The quantization noise is relative to each sample value.  For any sample value smaller than 0 dB, the quantization noise is also smaller by the same ratio.
4)Even if a signal is normalized so its peaks are 0 dB, samples that are not peaks, but smaller values, exhibit a smaller quantization noise, always a fixed amount relative to the value itself. So while the maximum error in this case is the same (for the 0 dB values), the average is smaller (every other value has smaller error). Note also that our ear is more sensitive to distortion and noise in the parts of the waveform closer to zero, and less in the peaks. More exactly is more sensitive to the differential or slope, which is highest near zero and minimal at the peaks for a sine wave, and statistically similar for any signal.

 
So it seems to sum up as "it's better for the softer parts", which is where we tend to notice quantization error. Practically I doubt this counts much versus straight up # of bits, in that I'd be surprised if the difference between a good and bad workflow was int vs float. There's also the "no clipping" thing, but we're talking about stuff happening in a DAW; for the ADC you still have clipping to worry about and you don't have 32-bits of dynamic range or SNR.

 

[timb5881]

A couple of questions about the trial foobar mobile. I have it on my iPad and iPhone. Will it stream 24/96 files with the plugin on my computer to my iPhone through foobar? So far it seems to be, when I do a stream on the foobar on the computer. It only seems to allow me to only acces my iTunes library without streaming music at the same time. So if I use a dac on my iPhone , like my Cyberdrive feather, can I stream dsd and other high resolution music? Can I acces them as files on my phone, high Rez, that are not in my iTunes folders?

 

[Traveller]

Do you want to discuss the sound science of bit-perfect playback?

 
Actually, I do

 
A silly question perhaps, but why does Foobar2000 allow for volume control with DACS that have own (HW) volume controls?
I use Foobar2000 on my Windows-based Notebooks and UAPP on my Android-based Smartphone. UAPP is able to determine which of my DACs have HW volume controls (ex. Mojo) and which do not (ex. AQ Dragonfly).
 
When it comes to assuring "bit-perfect" data transmission, source-side volume control makes me nervous...

 
Thanks for any feedback you may have

 

[harpo1]

I have a weird issue and I'm not sure what is causing it so any help would be appreciated.  I have a 1 TB hard drive connected to my Asus router.  I copy a foobar folder over to it and it's fine for a while.  Then usually within a week I open foobar2000 and my library is gone.  Look on the hard drive and the foobar folder is gone.  This has been going on now for about 6 weeks.  Any ideas?

 

[canthearyou]

I have a weird issue and I'm not sure what is causing it so any help would be appreciated.  I have a 1 TB hard drive connected to my Asus router.  I copy a foobar folder over to it and it's fine for a while.  Then usually within a week I open foobar2000 and my library is gone.  Look on the hard drive and the foobar folder is gone.  This has been going on now for about 6 weeks.  Any ideas?

Did you set a static IP address for the storage?

 

[harpo1]

Did you set a static IP address for the storage?

It's connected to the usb port on the router so it doesn't show up in the network map.  

 

[Traveller]

...why does Foobar2000 allow for volume control with DACS that have own (HW) volume controls? I use Foobar2000 on my Windows-based Notebooks and UAPP on my Android-based Smartphone. UAPP is able to determine which of my DACs have HW volume controls (ex. Mojo) and which do not (ex. AQ Dragonfly)...

One more for the list; why is it that with WASAPI one has to select the Bit-depth? Again, I would expect Foobar to set the bit-depth based on the source...

ASIO does not have this option but I'm not quite happy with the sonic signature and prefer to use WASAPI.

 

[PleasantSounds]

  One more for the list; why is it that with WASAPI one has to select the Bit-depth? Again, I would expect Foobar to set the bit-depth based on the source...

ASIO does not have this option but I'm not quite happy with the sonic signature and prefer to use WASAPI.

 
Possible that switching between 16 and 24 on the fly has some side effects, or it's simply a design choice that could have been different, but evidently considered no big deal. If you're really curious why then check at the hydrogen audio where the f2k developers hang out.
 
In practice if your DAC supports 24-bit then set it to 24, otherwise 16. No adverse effects with playing 16-bit files through 24-bit interface.

 

[Traveller]

...In practice if your DAC supports 24-bit then set it to 24, otherwise 16. No adverse effects with playing 16-bit files through 24-bit interface.

Thanks for the feedback, sir! Will check out Hydrogen when I get a chance. [2/3 of] my USB DACs support 24-bit+.
 
Is this then a case of "padding" the remaining bits with zeros when working with lower-bit-depth source music? And we're sure the DAC isn't processing the addition bits (waste of resources / battery, etc)?