The FiiO X3 2nd gen (ex X3K, X3II) Thread : 192K/24B, CS4398,Native DSD, USB DAC with LO and inline remote

[JaeYoon]

Amping can improve the SQ of even the most sensitive iems, it's not just about loudness, I know that people tend to think that an amp is being used only to get more juice to feed hard to drive cans.

In fact, it also acts as a frequency booster that reveals the full potential of a pair of headphones, IMO everything sound way more balanced, no more recessed lows,mids or highs depending on the chosen amplifier of course ☺

I agree with this. Sledge recommended I try the fiio e12a amp. It will not only power iems and low impedance headphones. It will make everything sound better.

I used to follow the same mindset that amping probably only gives more power. But the Amp i used made acoustic guitars, vocals sound more organic. Everything was improved in a good way. Even the instrument spacing.
I had to buy it and try out the amp for myself to understand.

Another thing that I find neat about the amp. I don't know if every amp has a volume knob. But I like how mine has it, it is very convenient plus only the incredibly expensive digital audio players have volume knobs on them.

 

[Brooko]

Amping can improve the SQ of even the most sensitive iems, it's not just about loudness, I know that people tend to think that an amp is being used only to get more juice to feed hard to drive cans.

In fact, it also acts as a frequency booster that reveals the full potential of headphones, IMO everything sound way more balanced, no more recessed lows,mids or highs depending on the chosen amplifier of course ☺

 
No - it doesn't.  If you measure most competently made amps - they add gain (amplify the signal).  The last thing they should be doing is actually changing it.  A lot of people seem to have this false idea that there is something magic happening with amplification - there isn't.  A competently made amplifier will have a completely flat signal that will have no effect at all on frequency (note that I am not talking about hardware eq - tone controls, bass boost etc).
 
What an amp will / might add:

1. Cleaner power with less fluctuations
2. Lower impedance (if you have very sensitive low impedance earphones)
3. Changes in crossfeed (possible but not that common IMO, or at least seldomly audible)
4. Tone or other EQ options to flavour the sound - this can also include crossfeed in some amps
5. Higher voltage, current, or both to handle harder to drive cans
6. Better battery life - by not drawing on the sources power.

 
The one thing a competently made amp will not do is make everything more balanced, or change lows, mids and highs.
 
I can only assume you are confusing things with the DAC section - which can employ different filters, which can give rolled off upper frequencies etc.

 

[JaeYoon]

No - it doesn't.  If you measure most competently made amps - they add gain (amplify the signal).  The last thing they should be doing is actually changing it.  A lot of people seem to have this false idea that there is something magic happening with amplification - there isn't.  A competently made amplifier will have a completely flat signal that will have no effect at all on frequency (note that I am not talking about hardware eq - tone controls, bass boost etc).

What an amp will / might add:

• Cleaner power with less fluctuations
• Lower impedance (if you have very sensitive low impedance earphones)
• Changes in crossfeed (possible but not that common IMO, or at least seldomly audible)
• Tone or other EQ options to flavour the sound - this can also include crossfeed in some amps
• Higher voltage, current, or both to handle harder to drive cans
• Better battery life - by not drawing on the sources power.

The one thing a competently made amp will not do is make everything more balanced, or change lows, mids and highs.

I can only assume you are confusing things with the DAC section - which can employ different filters, which can give rolled off upper frequencies etc.

Wow then I learned something new. So the amp just does exactly all those points assuming they are well made. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Brooko]

You can have a little flavouring with the actual amplification chip itself.  EG the Muses OP amps are supposed to be very slightly warmer.  Its always puzzled me how that works though as both measure flat (eg comparing AM1 and AM2 on the X7).
 
But thinking that its going to affect or balance out the highs mids and lows is defintiely not going to happen.  It's simple maths really.
 
The only time it can happen is if:
 

1. You are under-driving the headphones (not enough power) - adding the right amplification can affect frequency then
2. You have bad damping factor from your source - eg a 10 ohm output with 32 ohm cans - if the cans have a natural impedance bump somewhere, then from the source with bad damping you'll get a frequency response which does not match the intended response from the manufacturer.  Adding an amp with lower impedance can help solve those types of problems.

 
The issue is where you have a low impedance, easy to drive headphone - and power it from a very good low impedance source - with good power control (like the X3ii).  Then someone comes along and tells you an amp will improve it.  Like I said earlier - you might have an amp with a slightly warmer or leaner base signature, or with tone controls.  But otherwise - its going to add very little (better power management is one thing).
 
I do use my E17K with the X3ii - but I'm realistic about why I use it.  Its there to extend battery life on the X3ii, and add tone controls (which are handy when I'm reviewing different types of IEMs, and need a quick EQ tweak).

 

[Lionlian]

Is x3ii sound comparable to ak100ii ?
I just have a chance listen to ak100ii just for few minute and instantly falling in love with it, I hope x3ii should not be too far off.

 

[JWolf]

Is x3ii sound comparable to ak100ii ?
I just have a chance listen to ak100ii just for few minute and instantly falling in love with it, I hope x3ii should not be too far off.

I cannot say about the AK sound, but I can say it's very much overpriced for what you get. For the same money you can get an X3II and a really nice set of cans. You buy the AK and you would then have to buy the cans. The X3II is a great value. The AK is a so-so value at best.

 

[JaeYoon]

I cannot say about the AK sound, but I can say it's very much overpriced for what you get. For the same money you can get an X3II and a really nice set of cans. You buy the AK and you would then have to buy the cans. The X3II is a great value. The AK is a so-so value at best.

That's crazy. Both the Ak100ii and x3ii have cs4398 chipset.
Yet the ak100ii cost 4-5x more. I wonder how well it utilizes that chipset for that much of a cost.
But it does have a volume knob.

You are definitely better off starting with a x3ii.
You could even buy a x5ii and get a good headphone still for that price.

 

[bruce1967]

Amping can improve the SQ of even the most sensitive iems, it's not just about loudness, I know that people tend to think that an amp is being used only to get more juice to feed hard to drive cans.

In fact, it also acts as a frequency booster that reveals the full potential of headphones, IMO everything sound way more balanced, no more recessed lows,mids or highs depending on the chosen amplifier of course ☺

I know amping can improve the sound but I'm pretty happy with the sound as it is although some kind of bass boost might come in handy sometimes.

 

[x RELIC x]

That's crazy. Both the Ak100ii and x3ii have cs4398 chipset.
Yet the ak100ii cost 4-5x more. I wonder how well it utilizes that chipset for that much of a cost.
But it does have a volume knob.

You are definitely better off starting with a x3ii.
You could even buy a x5ii and get a good headphone still for that price.

The chipset is the least contributor to the end sonic signature in theses off the shelf chips. While certain manufacturers chipsets may have a certain 'flavour' the implementation of the chipset is far more important than the component used. The power supply, analogue stage from the DAC, the amp implementation and more have a far greater effect on sound quality. AK, Questyle, FiiO, Apple, and others use the same chip and all sound different from one another.

There is also the UI to consider as well as build quality. Don't get me wrong, I think that A&K is overpriced for what it delivers sonically (I own the AK240 and FiiO X5 and X5ii - previously owned the X3 first gen), but to say the chipset is the determining factor in sound quality is not the case.

 

[JWolf]

The chipset is the least contributor to the end sonic signature in theses off the shelf chips. While certain manufacturers chipsets may have a certain 'flavour' the implementation of the chipset is far more important than the component used. The power supply, analogue stage from the DAC, the amp implementation and more have a far greater effect on sound quality. AK, Questyle, FiiO, Apple, and others use the same chip and all sound different from one another.

There is also the UI to consider as well as build quality. Don't get me wrong, I think that A&K is overpriced for what it delivers sonically (I own the AK240 and FiiO X5 and X5ii - previously owned the X3 first gen), but to say the chipset is the determining factor in sound quality is not the case.

 
How does the AK240 sound in comparison to the X5II? Is the AK240 worth the money?

 

[x RELIC x]

How does the AK240 sound in comparison to the X5II? Is the AK240 worth the money?

Nope.

I like the interface, A LOT, but the sound quality difference is no where near the price difference of the AK240. I bought Currawong's AK240 used at a reasonable price, compared to new, and I still think it wasn't really worth the price. It does have more depth and better realism to the sound, but the law of diminishing returns kicks in much more than the AK marketing would have you believe. I mostly strap it to the Mojo with the optical connection because I like the interface so much. Compared to the X5ii it's a warmer DAP and my initial reaction was that it wasn't as detailed (using JH Angie universal IEM). The truth is that it's not as forward and the X5ii is slightly grainy in comparison to the AK240. It is better, but not $2500 new better.

Oh, and the battery life sucks on the AK240.

 

[JaeYoon]

The chipset is the least contributor to the end sonic signature in theses off the shelf chips. While certain manufacturers chipsets may have a certain 'flavour' the implementation of the chipset is far more important than the component used. The power supply, analogue stage from the DAC, the amp implementation and more have a far greater effect on sound quality. AK, Questyle, FiiO, Apple, and others use the same chip and all sound different from one another.

There is also the UI to consider as well as build quality. Don't get me wrong, I think that A&K is overpriced for what it delivers sonically (I own the AK240 and FiiO X5 and X5ii - previously owned the X3 first gen), but to say the chipset is the determining factor in sound quality is not the case.

But i never mentioned that the sound chipset was the determined solution.
I just noticed something that was of interest that they both share.

A couple of posts ago I already made a post that the LG V10 most likely had a much better dac the ESS 9018 than the one in the X3ii fiio that I'm already using.

However the V10 cannot adaquately power my headphone using Normal (Non-aux) very tedious to work around. With plugging and unplugging.

Along with the amp I've the small form factor of the fiio x3, I havent touched the v10 for audio anymore. So i kinda figured that out 2 days ago

 

[x RELIC x]

But i never mentioned that the sound chipset was the determined solution.
I just noticed something that was of interest that they both share.

A couple of posts ago I already made a post that the LG V10 most likely had a much better dac the ESS 9018 than the one in the X3ii fiio that I'm already using.

However the V10 cannot adaquately power my headphone using Normal (Non-aux) very tedious to work around. With plugging and unplugging.

Along with the amp I've the small form factor of the fiio x3, I havent touched the v10 for audio anymore. So i kinda figured that out 2 days ago

I was thinking you were coming from a different perspective. Apologies.

 

[JaeYoon]

I was thinking you were coming from a different perspective. Apologies.

A
Actually I also apologize. I reread my post I still was comparing the part of the DAC between the two. So Im still wrong. But yeah i shouldve put in other specs of astrel kern 100ii alongside with the fiio

But hey Relic I need to ask are any of the Astrell and kern players great though. The newest ones are like 2k.
If they are worth,i may consider investing saving up for.

 

[FuzzyHead]

   
Load firmware 1.45 and using the latest USB DAC driver, it's trivial.

 
I had FW 1.5 I got a new X3 today in the mail shipped with firmware 1.5 scroll wheel feels well smooth