The FiiO X3 2nd gen (ex X3K, X3II) Thread : 192K/24B, CS4398,Native DSD, USB DAC with LO and inline remote

[yoyorast10]

A suggestion, when pausing a song, that it slowly stops? I'm not sure if Fiio even reads this thread.

 

[oldschool]

  A suggestion, when pausing a song, that it slowly stops? I'm not sure if Fiio even reads this thread.

 
I like the Rockbox implementation to fade in and fade out (3 seconds, etc.) when pausing and resuming.
 
About Fiio - I am pretty sure they read everything but it's up to them what to add to the firmware and what not. Honestly, some of the suggestions given are often silly or not that important. A company can please only so many personal preferences and requests.

 

[bruce1967]

  A suggestion, when pausing a song, that it slowly stops? I'm not sure if Fiio even reads this thread.

When the first X3 was new the Fiio people were on the forum quite often but that product had alot of FW problems from the beginning unlike the X3ii which is like a finished product as soon as it was released. The X3 had alot of growing pains. Something I would love to see in the future for the X3iii would be a return to all buttons and scrap the scroll wheel and the return of hardware base and treble.

 

[despuit]

  A suggestion, when pausing a song, that it slowly stops? I'm not sure if Fiio even reads this thread.

I like that and someone too posted about that standby issue I noted a page before lol. I'll e-mail them both of these things, all so there is a guy on here named James FiiO. The more we submit the more likely it will come to be!

 

[despuit]

  It is hard to tell the difference between good quality MP3 and 16 bit flac sometimes but since all my music is on CD I just ripped it all to flac. I know I'm getting CD quality and that is good enough for me. I honestly can't hear better than that so CD quality is as good as it gets for me. I've never tried DSD and probably won't bother since 24 bit hi res audio sounds the same as 16 bit flac to me.

I don't understand this, I've all ways been able to tell the difference even when using really cheap headphones and a wretched source. I think it is something learned for most people, my brother is the same way I have to literally point out the differences because he doesn't pay attention to that stuff.  I'm a really into details so even I can't hear a difference I'll keep going over and over it till I can appreciate it.

First thing that bites me though is the base volume and I can usaully detect if it is a true flac this way. From MP3, AAC and other lossy formats to ape, m4a, flac lossless files immediately I notice the sound is louder. Some songs I really don't like any more because with that additional noise control I can hear symbols, and high hats that weren't there before. I like a lot of music I can't stand that stuff, same with horns. Then moving into 24 bit I find the volume is reduced but you have a lot more control over the music, there is a major gap that you hit though. I don't know how it is on the upper levels, I have midrange system. For me though you reach a point where this is the realest it is going to sound, which is sometimes pretty good. I've thought people were talking to me before, or people were knocking, or in the house and I am alone. But what dissapoints me is soundstage, I wish these recordings would sound more at a distance. I still want them to be vibrant but just let my imagnation see you instead of singing right next to me. I think that's why people like classical music so much as it gives that illusion you're in a big room. And you start to see the sections and paint a picture in your head.

 

[bruce1967]

  I don't understand this, I've all ways been able to tell the difference even when using really cheap headphones and a wretched source. I think it is something learned for most people, my brother is the same way I have to literally point out the differences because he doesn't pay attention to that stuff.  I'm a really into details so even I can't hear a difference I'll keep going over and over it till I can appreciate it.

First thing that bites me though is the base volume and I can usaully detect if it is a true flac this way. From MP3, AAC and other lossy formats to ape, m4a, flac lossless files immediately I notice the sound is louder. Some songs I really don't like any more because with that additional noise control I can hear symbols, and high hats that weren't there before. I like a lot of music I can't stand that stuff, same with horns. Then moving into 24 bit I find the volume is reduced but you have a lot more control over the music, there is a major gap that you hit though. I don't know how it is on the upper levels, I have midrange system. For me though you reach a point where this is the realest it is going to sound, which is sometimes pretty good. I've thought people were talking to me before, or people were knocking, or in the house and I am alone. But what dissapoints me is soundstage, I wish these recordings would sound more at a distance. I still want them to be vibrant but just let my imagnation see you instead of singing right next to me. I think that's why people like classical music so much as it gives that illusion you're in a big room. And you start to see the sections and paint a picture in your head.

To me, good sounding music depends mostly on the mastering. I've heard albums mastered poorly and good remaster or vice versa..the original master sounding better than the remaster but maybe my hearing is not as good as it was when I was 18. I just find that good enough is good enough. I'm tired of trying to find something that sounds better. I have a good set up that I can enjoy my music on. I guess I'm just not interesting in analyzing the sound anymore as much as I am in just listening to the music and the words and enjoying that.

 

[pureby]

  To me, good sounding music depends mostly on the mastering. I've heard albums mastered poorly and good remaster or vice versa..the original master sounding better than the remaster but maybe my hearing is not as good as it was when I was 18. I just find that good enough is good enough. I'm tired of trying to find something that sounds better. I have a good set up that I can enjoy my music on. I guess I'm just not interesting in analyzing the sound anymore as much as I am in just listening to the music and the words and enjoying that.

 
A person who listens to MP3 and radio all the time will not appreciate lossless at first.
A person who listens mostly to lossless, will surely notice MP3 sound even when played on a smartphone with some 20$-headphones.
It is indeed a learning curve with MP3 and lossless. You learn to appreciate lossless sound only when you know what you are about to loose.
 
As of 24 bit, there is simply no difference in sound quality between 24-bit and CD (16-bit) unless you exceed the 160 dB sound level, which will permanently damage your ears within seconds or make you deaf within minutes.
So the "benefits" of 24-bit sound are kinda... useless. But at least 24-bit sound does not degrade sound quality at all (it only wastes twice as much space on your hard drive for the same sound quality).
 
The above can not be said about high-frequency sounds (88 kHz, 192 kHz, etc.), those cannot be heard by humans either, but playing them on normal speakers might mess up the audible frequency range (up to 15~16 kHz for most adults above 25, or up to 20 kHz for perfectly functioning "golden-ears").  This is because most speakers are not designed for HQ playback.
And if someone spent money on 192 kHz speaker system well... That's money thrown away, because you just spent money on sound that can not be perceived by human beings. Might have invested all that money in better-sounding 20-kHz speakers and enjoyed the increased quality of the audible range.

 

[despuit]

  To me, good sounding music depends mostly on the mastering. I've heard albums mastered poorly and good remaster or vice versa..the original master sounding better than the remaster but maybe my hearing is not as good as it was when I was 18. I just find that good enough is good enough. I'm tired of trying to find something that sounds better. I have a good set up that I can enjoy my music on. I guess I'm just not interesting in analyzing the sound anymore as much as I am in just listening to the music and the words and enjoying that.

Even then for mastering sometimes just that vintage sound even if at one time it was denoted as choppy or what not is a prize in its own. Like movies from the 50s or 80s in their original formats.  Hearing is relative, and I find we all have unique ways of hearing to have bionic ears would be to lose our humanity. So that's understandable, taking it at face value. Sometimes we can be over analytical and it depreciates the value. Ignorance is bliss sort of thing. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[bruce1967]

  Even then for mastering sometimes just that vintage sound even if at one time it was denoted as choppy or what not is a prize in its own. Like movies from the 50s or 80s in their original formats.  Hearing is relative, and I find we all have unique ways of hearing to have bionic ears would be to lose our humanity. So that's understandable, taking it at face value. Sometimes we can be over analytical and it depreciates the value. Ignorance is bliss sort of thing. Thanks for the feedback.

No problem. Do you listen to more modern music or older stuff? I typically listen to music in the "Classic Rock" category.

 

[despuit]

  A person who listens to MP3 and radio all the time will not appreciate lossless at first.
A person who listens mostly to lossless, will surely notice MP3 sound even when played on a smartphone with some 20$-headphones.
It is indeed a learning curve with MP3 and lossless. You learn to appreciate lossless sound only when you know what you are about to loose.
 
As of 24 bit, there is simply no difference in sound quality between 24-bit and CD (16-bit) unless you exceed the 160 dB sound level, which will permanently damage your ears within seconds or make you deaf within minutes.
So the "benefits" of 24-bit sound are kinda... useless. But at least 24-bit sound does not degrade sound quality at all (it only wastes twice as much space on your hard drive for the same sound quality).
 
The above can not be said about high-frequency sounds (88 kHz, 192 kHz, etc.), those cannot be heard by humans either, but playing them on normal speakers might mess up the audible frequency range (up to 15~16 kHz for most adults above 25, or up to 20 kHz for perfectly functioning "golden-ears").  This is because most speakers are not designed for HQ playback.
And if someone spent money on 192 kHz speaker system well... That's money thrown away, because you just spent money on sound that can not be perceived by human beings. Might have invested all that money in better-sounding 20-kHz speakers and enjoyed the increased quality of the audible range.

 
1. I agree
 
2. I dissagree, people have that debate that 32 bit is the ceiling. I don't disagree with the science behind it as I don't know lol. But for my ears vinyl has a unique sound signature. A level of clarity that pierces through the airwaves, and more regulated wave length. I would listen to a 24 bit file over a 16 bit file any day there is no comparsison for me. Sure you could do a lossy/lossless 16 bit file comparison and maybe 5/10 I couldn't tell the difference because you do have to know the music to appreciate it. But do that with 16 bit and 24 bit file and I can 9/10 tell the difference if not 10/10 but it is all ways better to account for human error.

3. Those arugements are relative to the majority not the minority, my frequency range is different then yours. So the scope of what I can hear can be an improvement, and again for me it is not the frequency per se. Rather how it is regulated. And I agree with speakers being limited the more I delve into this because an article was talking about the z axis limitations of towers. But again I wouldn't know about that too much, I know my headphones that cost 400 dollars sound on par with a speaker system that cost 5,000 minus the range. I notice the left range can be hit but is quieter because headphones are more finite and percise, but with that speaker system I can just boost the audio till the windows shatter to hear it do that on headphones and you're deaf.

 

[bruce1967]

   
A person who listens to MP3 and radio all the time will not appreciate lossless at first.
A person who listens mostly to lossless, will surely notice MP3 sound even when played on a smartphone with some 20$-headphones.
It is indeed a learning curve with MP3 and lossless. You learn to appreciate lossless sound only when you know what you are about to loose.
 
As of 24 bit, there is simply no difference in sound quality between 24-bit and CD (16-bit) unless you exceed the 160 dB sound level, which will permanently damage your ears within seconds or make you deaf within minutes.
So the "benefits" of 24-bit sound are kinda... useless. But at least 24-bit sound does not degrade sound quality at all (it only wastes twice as much space on your hard drive for the same sound quality).
 
The above can not be said about high-frequency sounds (88 kHz, 192 kHz, etc.), those cannot be heard by humans either, but playing them on normal speakers might mess up the audible frequency range (up to 15~16 kHz for most adults above 25, or up to 20 kHz for perfectly functioning "golden-ears").  This is because most speakers are not designed for HQ playback.
And if someone spent money on 192 kHz speaker system well... That's money thrown away, because you just spent money on sound that can not be perceived by human beings. Might have invested all that money in better-sounding 20-kHz speakers and enjoyed the increased quality of the audible range.

Well I listen to 16 bit flac ripped from my CD collection and I like how it sounds. I tried some 24 bit stuff and didn't notice a difference really but I certainly don't have golden ears.

 

[despuit]

  No problem. Do you listen to more modern music or older stuff? I typically listen to music in the "Classic Rock" category.

My music is every where, the majority of my music is pop/folk from all over the world. I think that is where we seperate you listen to music for meaning, I just hear noise. So French, Japanese, English all sounds the same to me. And I all so like power metal, classic rock, opera, classical (strings) so my focus is mainly on the vocal aspect of music, and the pop works it way in big because I perfer music on the low end (bass). I enjoy treble in vocals, but when it comes to instruments I can't stand it so I don't listen to Jazz, Symbols, or things of the alike. Is why I perfer MP3s for certain songs as I can't hear that stuff.

 

[pureby]

   
1. I agree
 
2. I dissagree, people have that debate that 32 bit is the ceiling. I don't disagree with the science behind it as I don't know lol. But for my ears vinyl has a unique sound signature. A level of clarity that pierces through the airwaves, and more regulated wave length. I would listen to a 24 bit file over a 16 bit file any day there is no comparsison for me. Sure you could do a lossy/lossless 16 bit file comparison and maybe 5/10 I couldn't tell the difference because you do have to know the music to appreciate it. But do that with 16 bit and 24 bit file and I can 9/10 tell the difference if not 10/10 but it is all ways better to account for human error.

3. Those arugements are relative to the majority not the minority, my frequency range is different then yours. So the scope of what I can hear can be an improvement, and again for me it is not the frequency per se. Rather how it is regulated. And I agree with speakers being limited the more I delve into this because an article was talking about the z axis limitations of towers. But again I wouldn't know about that too much, I know my headphones that cost 400 dollars sound on par with a speaker system that cost 5,000 minus the range. I notice the left range can be hit but is quieter because headphones are more finite and percise, but with that speaker system I can just boost the audio till the windows shatter to hear it do that on headphones and you're deaf.

I wasn't talking about vinyl. Vinyl is out of question, because it is analogue sound and not digital, hence you can't compare the two. Vinyl is not 16- or 24-bit or anything, it is analogue and bit depth is a property of digital sound and does not apply to analogue.
 
By the way, 32-bit isn't the ceiling at all. In fact, many recording studios work with 48-kHz* sound [EDIT: typo! I meant 48-bit sound of course] and there are good technical reasons to do that while sound-engineering (non-related to the end-product that you playback on your home sound system).
 
About audible sound range, sure yours and mine are different. But the fact is, they are different within the range of ~20 Hz and ~20'000 Hz, because those are the limits of human hearing. This limit applies to all human beings, which means all majorities and all minorities that have ever lived or will live, combined.
I'ts like, adult human beings cannot be 10cm tall and neither can they be 50 meters high. Most humans are about ~1.75 meter; some might be 1 meter, some might get 2.50, but that's it.
Exactly the same applies to human hearing. It has it's limits. No human can hear like a dog or like a cat. It's a fact. Audible range ends somewhere. And that end is, like it or not — +/-20 kHz. 

Why some people like 192 kHz sound more, is because of the different master they get with 24-192 files. But the difference you hear, is not extra bits or extra kHz, its the different source master you like more. Take that same master, reduce it to 16-bit 44.1 kHz digital sound and you'll never be able to hear the difference.

 

[bruce1967]

  My music is every where, the majority of my music is pop/folk from all over the world. I think that is where we seperate you listen to music for meaning, I just hear noise. So French, Japanese, English all sounds the same to me. And I all so like power metal, classic rock, opera, classical (strings) so my focus is mainly on the vocal aspect of music, and the pop works it way in big because I perfer music on the low end (bass). I enjoy treble in vocals, but when it comes to instruments I can't stand it so I don't listen to Jazz, Symbols, or things of the alike. Is why I perfer MP3s for certain songs as I can't hear that stuff.

It's interesting how people listen to music differently. I do listen to music for meaning but I do of course have to enjoy the sound, the melody etc. As long as people enjoy it that's all that matters.

 

[interpolate]

Sampling frequency is not the same as frequency range.