The Extreme has arrived!
Dec 18, 2006 at 9:59 AM Post #46 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by PFKMan23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The pin out is the same and the heater current and voltage are appropriate for the amp. So long as you are keeping the limits of the resitors and trasformer in mind you should be fine. Of course something like a 6528 with the same pin out as the 5998 isn't necessarily ok, because it draws 5 amps of heater current per tube which when totaled would exceed the transformer. As long as you're not taxing the transforemr too hard you should be fine. Although, that being said you need to make sure things work ok in the long run or are practical as an amp optimized for something like a 12au7 won't necessarily be ok with the 12ax7 given the difference in gain. That's especially something you need to keep in mind with tubes that draw more heater current than the stock tube types. Of course you need to research the tubes first...


PFKMan23,

that's my point exactly - just because the pin out and filament draw/voltage is the same, does not mean that the tube is really a substitute.

Let me use an analogy- meat is mainly protein. So is tofu. But can tofu really substitute for meat? Depending on your needs, yes and no! If you're just looking for a protein source (i.e. something that works), it's perfectly fine. But if you're looking for a genuine substitute it certainly won't make the cut.
 
Dec 18, 2006 at 10:04 AM Post #47 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Most of the "new tubes" used in the amps require an adapter. Most of the adapters have compensation networks included to change specific parameters of the tubes opertaion .... so the tube operates as required in the circuit. The 5687 adapter, for instance, has a network that prevents oscillation as well as providing circuit compensation. As you know, some tubes are electrically identical and only need the adapter to provide the correct base and pin out; example 6sn7> 7n7. But understand, many tubes will not work at all or some will only work in certain amps under certain conditions; examples provided below.

He also recommends you dont try to use a SP adapter in another manufacturer's amp without consulting BOTH the said manufacturer and SP to determine compatibility.

Now .... some tubes just wont work period because they have to much gain and / or to little current drive; example 12ax7.

Some tubes wont work because they draw to much current and will fry the amps resistors even though the amps tube sockets have the correct pin out and the amps transformer can handle the heater current draw; example 6as7 output tubes in the Supra's.

Some tubes work only in combination with certain other tubes; example the 6su7gty/ 6080 in the Extreme.

Now lets be more specific with some examples. Lets look at the 6414>6bl7gta combo @ 300 volts in the first new chassis MPX3's. This combination works very well in this amp. The 6bl7gta tube, however, sounds awful using the typical 6sn7gt for gain and running the same 300 volts in this vintage MPX3 because the tube is underdriven. This 6414>6bl7gta combo works extremely well in the SLAM SE @ 300 volts and even better at 375+ volts .... with the standard SE bias. Up the bias on a SLAM SE like mine that has a manual bias control using this 6414>6bl7gta combo @ 375 volts .... and you will overdrive the output tubes.

Therefore and understandably, if you arent following the tube substitution threads closely and receiving information regarding tube compatibility from the manufacturer .... about your specfic and often custom amp .... these tube subs may appear "willy nilly".
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Good post sacd lover - perhaps I should be spanked for being a worrywart and slightly naive, but I was actually unaware that the Singlepower adaptors involved circuit compensation. I was worried that we were approaching a CV181/6SN7GT or 12AU7/12AX7 (jamato8 - heh) type situation.

I was under the impression that they were simple direct pin-to-pin adaptors.
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All the same though, I'm glad I raised the point - at least everyone knows more now!
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Dec 18, 2006 at 10:21 AM Post #48 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Good post sacd lover - perhaps I should be spanked for being a worrywart and slightly naive, but I was actually unaware that the Singlepower adaptors involved circuit compensation. I was worried that we were approaching a CV181/6SN7GT or 12AU7/12AX7 (jamato8 - heh) type situation.

I was under the impression that they were simple direct pin-to-pin adaptors.
wink.gif
All the same though, I'm glad I raised the point - at least everyone knows more now!
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No problem .... I know the answer because I asked the same question myself. The compensation isnt always easy to do either. I know he made several prototype adapters before he got the new adapter using the 2C51 to work as he desired.

By the way, the reason I am up is because I have spent the whole night listening to the Extreme. In fact, I am just going to stay up and get ready for work. I just couldnt stop listening. This amp is extremely good with high AND low impedence headphones. I definitely see some M2Si's .... or some type of grado in my future. I bet this amp will drive AKG 701's great too. Senn 580/595/600's sound as good as I have ever heard them. Everyone has their own preferances but I cant imagine anyone being anything less than extremely pleased with this amp.
 
Dec 18, 2006 at 10:30 AM Post #49 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No problem .... I know the answer because I asked the same question myself. The compensation isnt always easy to do either. I know he made several prototype adapters before he got the new adapter using the 2C51 to work as he desired.


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Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif
By the way, the reason I am up is because I have spent the whole night listening to the Extreme. In fact, I am just going to stay up and get ready for work. I just couldnt stop listening. This amp is extremely good with high AND low impedence headphones. I definitely see some M2Si's .... or some type of grado in my future. I bet this amp will drive AKG 701's great too. Senn 580/595/600's sound as good as I have ever heard them. Everyone has their own preferances but I cant imagine anyone being anything less than extremely pleased with this amp.


Damn - if that isn't a strong recommendation for an amp, I don't know what is. You tempt me, my friend!
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It's great news for me either way anyhow - I have a couple of WE421As and TS 5998s that would be useful either in one (an Extreme) for myself, or for others.
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Dec 18, 2006 at 10:41 AM Post #50 of 428
Has someone used this amp with a RS-1 yet? Since it does so well with a K-1000 I'm extremely interested in it, but since I also have a RS-1 and would like just one amp, this one might be the ticket.
 
Dec 18, 2006 at 10:53 AM Post #52 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Has someuse used this amp with a RS-1 yet? Since it does so well with a K-1000 I'm extremely interested in it, but since I also have a RS and would like just one amp, this one might be the ticket.


I am only using a humble pair of recabled, rescreened sr-80's. But they sound [size=x-large]Good![/size]

I am attempting to buy a pair of M2Si's or trade for a HF-1; possibly today. If those fall through I could very well end up with a RS-1. If I do end up with a RS-1 .... of course I will report the results. But since the amp sounds so good with modded sr-80's .... I am pumped up at the thought of a high end pair of grado strapped to my ears.
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Dec 18, 2006 at 11:00 AM Post #53 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by SK138 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Earl...that's bad news (for me)!! Now I have to consider purchasing it before the Head-Fi speciall sale is over. May my wife forgive me...but I will beg for mercy AFTER I get it
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Take her shoe shopping and all will be well.
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Dont ask why I make that recommendation.
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Dec 18, 2006 at 11:12 AM Post #55 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I will trade you my ms-2 for your hf-1 anyday..let me know man


I dont have either yet. Although I think I may have just bought a pair of M2Si's.
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I sense a grado buying spree appoaching though.
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Dec 18, 2006 at 11:36 AM Post #56 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif
By the way, the reason I am up is because I have spent the whole night listening to the Extreme. In fact, I am just going to stay up and get ready for work. I just couldnt stop listening. This amp is extremely good with high AND low impedence headphones. I definitely see some M2Si's .... or some type of grado in my future. I bet this amp will drive AKG 701's great too. Senn 580/595/600's sound as good as I have ever heard them. Everyone has their own preferances but I cant imagine anyone being anything less than extremely pleased with this amp.


I am quoting myself because I forgot to mention something. The above results do not factor in that I have not yet put any 6080's in the amp. I continue to use the 5998's as the output tubes. Mikhail recommends the 6080 outputs with the grados. If the 6080 tubes up the amps performance .... well .... WOW! I dont have the adapter for the new 2c51 tube yet either .... which is reportedly a very special tube.

Looks like nothing but good times ahead!
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Dec 18, 2006 at 11:38 AM Post #57 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Good post sacd lover - perhaps I should be spanked for being a worrywart and slightly naive, but I was actually unaware that the Singlepower adaptors involved circuit compensation. I was worried that we were approaching a CV181/6SN7GT or 12AU7/12AX7 (jamato8 - heh) type situation.

I was under the impression that they were simple direct pin-to-pin adaptors.
wink.gif
All the same though, I'm glad I raised the point - at least everyone knows more now!
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Some of the adapters are quite heavy must be alot in there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacdlover
I dont have the adapter for the new 2c51 tube yet either .... which is reportedly a very special tube.


I got one yesterday huge sound stage kind of smooth with K340s but I need more time with it.
 
Dec 18, 2006 at 12:18 PM Post #58 of 428
A Grado convert? Earl you'll soon end up with PS-1's.
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This must be a great amp!!

The 2c51 seems to be very interesting!! I'm wondering if it's worth spending more to get the Western Electric 2c51/396A's

Earl,do the SR80's sound 'bright' with the tubes you have used so far?
 
Dec 18, 2006 at 12:44 PM Post #59 of 428
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob N /img/forum/go_quote.gif
A Grado convert? Earl you'll soon end up with PS-1's.
rs1smile.gif
This must be a great amp!!

The 2c51 seems to be very interesting!! I'm wondering if it's worth spending more to get the Western Electric 2c51/396A's

Earl,do the SR80's sound 'bright' with the tubes you have used so far?





No they dont, plus, the sr-80 actually has some semblance of a soundstage.
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Dec 18, 2006 at 1:00 PM Post #60 of 428
Shows how closely, relating to the tubes being put indiscriminantely in a socket.

I didn't realize we were talking about the adapters I thought it was about just putting tubes in where the socket fit, which I have known plenty of people to do.
 

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