[Dobrescu George]

The EU cap rules set two limits, a lower limit of 85 db and an upper limit of 100 db. The volume can be raised to the lower limit for an indefinite amount of time. The user may raise the volume beyond the lower limit up to to the upper limit, provided there is a warning which the user is made to acknowledge, and this warning has to be repeated at regular intervals.

 
Yes - and those 100DB theoretical at 16 OHM / 100DB SPL can equal to much less on other headphones / IEMs... 
 
That is the problem - that we, as audio lovers - mostly use headphones or IEMs that are considerably harder to drive.. 

 

[tienbasse]

Unfortunately, the EU law (and  regional laws in place in some countries like France) doesn't specify what the sensitivity of the headphones used for setting the cap should be.
 
So as you say, depending on the headphones you plug, the result can be a minor inconvenience, or a total disaster.
 
So far, Sony has made it a disaster with most of their DAPs, because I suspect I suspect they used a low sensitivity pair of IEMs for setting up the cap...
Or how to locally transform high-end DAPs into pieces of garbage, unless you use low sensitivity IEMs and nothing else.
 
To make it worse, Sony only enforces local warranty, so as a EU citizen, you're pretty much screwed if you buy your Sony DAP outside the EU. For some of their products, the warranty is even national only. Pure nonsense, when you travel a lot for your job like me.

 

[nc8000]

Unfortunately, the EU law (and  regional laws in place in some countries like France) doesn't specify what the sensitivity of the headphones used for setting the cap should be.

So as you say, depending on the headphones you plug, the result can be a minor inconvenience, or a total disaster.

So far, Sony has made it a disaster with most of their DAPs, because I suspect I suspect they used a low sensitivity pair of IEMs for setting up the cap...
Or how to locally transform high-end DAPs into pieces of garbage, unless you use low sensitivity IEMs and nothing else.

To make it worse, Sony only enforces local warranty, so as a EU citizen, you're pretty much screwed if you buy your Sony DAP outside the EU. For some of their products, the warranty is even national only. Pure nonsense, when you travel a lot for your job like me.

The really crazy part is that the EU regulation only aplies to a device WITH it's included headphone (only way for the supplier to know what the dB will be) so Sony didn't have to do anything as they don't supply a headphone. That is why iPhones are capped but not iPads

 

[AUDIOBREEDER]

I feel 140 is too high. They should cap it to 90 max. More lives will be saved. Moreover where can you drive 90-140?
Same for audio. Just paying 10% for better sound

Man that sucks for EU customers. Sucks that Sony didn't make an effort to circumvent it. Its like in the US all cars are pretty much capped to 120mph.

 

[Dobrescu George]

I feel 140 is too high. They should cap it to 90 max. More lives will be saved. Moreover where can you drive 90-140?
Same for audio. Just paying 10% for better sound

 
For Highway, anything under 240 KM/h is rather disappointing. 
 

The really crazy part is that the EU regulation only aplies to a device WITH it's included headphone (only way for the supplier to know what the dB will be) so Sony didn't have to do anything as they don't supply a headphone. That is why iPhones are capped but not iPads

 

This explains everything! 
 
So the headphones included are the ones that have their cap set at 100DB or whatever
 
This is crazy! 
 
99% of IEMs are harder to drive than those IEMs they included. 
 
Their own headphoes - the expensive ones are WAY harder to drive. 

 

[kubig123]

this is a great news!
 
thanks for clarifying it.

 

[Zakalwe]

The really crazy part is that the EU regulation only aplies to a device WITH it's included headphone (only way for the supplier to know what the dB will be) so Sony didn't have to do anything as they don't supply a headphone. That is why iPhones are capped but not iPads

This explains everything! 

So the headphones included are the ones that have their cap set at 100DB or whatever

This is crazy! 

I do not think so. According to this, the most recent 2013 revision no longer requires the player to come with headphones. The player is not allowed to exceed certain output voltages at its headphone socket when set to maximum volume. These voltages are just assumed to correspond to the db-volume limits when combined with actual headphones - they do not test the volume, just the voltage.

Regarding iPhones versus iPads, I would speculate that the latter simply are not regarded as "personal music players" in the sense of the standard. But to be sure one would have to look at the actual standard, which in fine EU tradition is only accessible for money.

 

[Whitigir]

I do not think so. According to this, the most recent 2013 revision no longer requires the player to come with headphones. The player is not allowed to exceed certain output voltages at its headphone socket when set to maximum volume. These voltages are just assumed to correspond to the db-volume limits when combined with actual headphones - they do not test the volume, just the voltage.

Regarding iPhones versus iPads, I would speculate that the latter simply are not regarded as "personal music players" in the sense of the standard. But to be sure one would have to look at the actual standard, which in fine EU tradition is only accessible for money.

According to this link. This is the guy who assigned volume CAP on your Europe parts

 

[nc8000]

I do not think so. According to this, the most recent 2013 revision no longer requires the player to come with headphones. The player is not allowed to exceed certain output voltages at its headphone socket when set to maximum volume. These voltages are just assumed to correspond to the db-volume limits when combined with actual headphones - they do not test the volume, just the voltage.

Regarding iPhones versus iPads, I would speculate that the latter simply are not regarded as "personal music players" in the sense of the standard. But to be sure one would have to look at the actual standard, which in fine EU tradition is only accessible for money.

Thank you. Tablets are actually also mentioned in your link

 

[Kerouac]

According to this link. This is the guy who assigned volume CAP on your Europe parts

 
Looking at the lines on his skull, it seems that he had a lobotomy just before that glorious ''Eureka!'' moment

 

 

[Dobrescu George]

   
Looking at the lines on his skull, it seems that he had a lobotomy just before that glorious ''Eureka!'' moment

 

 
Whoa, lots of volume cap hate in here. 
 
Well, I mainly use very hard to drive headphones - to almost impossible to drive headphones and only the sweet yet dark melodies of Jill Tracy are enjoyable at low volumes..
 

 
 
But I kinda know they're doing it for most of people's own good - so not gonna just hate them - but rather wish they would keep their protection out of audio enthusiastic sector - where headphones need power to be driven well. 
 

 

[tienbasse]

   
Whoa, lots of volume cap hate in here. 
 
Well, I mainly use very hard to drive headphones - to almost impossible to drive headphones and only the sweet yet dark melodies of Jill Tracy are enjoyable at low volumes..
 
But I kinda know they're doing it for most of people's own good - so not gonna just hate them - but rather wish they would keep their protection out of audio enthusiastic sector - where headphones need power to be driven well. 

It's not a question of hate, it's how some manufacturers enforce caps in a sensible manner and others like Sony do it in a silly manner.
85dB/100dB is pretty loud as long as long as the headphones/iem do get enough juice.
 
And to add to this nonsense, you're not free to damage your ears with a DAP, which could take a while unless you're really silly.
But you're free to go to a concert, to stand about 5 meters from huge loudspeakers (x000 Watts) and to get permanent ear damage in about 20 minutes. Makes perfect sense!

 

[Dobrescu George]

  It's not a question of hate, it's how some manufacturers enforce caps in a sensible manner and others like Sony do it in a silly manner.
85dB/100dB is pretty loud as long as long as the headphones/iem do get enough juice.
 
And to add to this nonsense, you're not free to damage your ears with a DAP, which could take a while unless you're really silly.
But you're free to go to a concert, to stand about 5 meters from huge loudspeakers (x000 Watts) and to get permanent ear damage in about 20 minutes. Makes perfect sense!

 
I hear your pain! 
 
I was at some concerts a while ago. 
 
Even wearing hearing heavy hearing protection - it was way too loud to feel good. 
 
I'm one to listen to loud music - at loud volumes - still don't want that loudness in my life - need this hearing to enjoy real good music in really good listening conditions. 
 
 

 
 
 
But yes - I agree with your points - and sorry if my comment seemed serious - I was trying to be sarcastic - ironical - joking around - because I'm completely against volume capping. I stand with FiiO players - and I was a fan of Chord Hugo for some time - those seem to provide the best result for my tastes. 

 

[AUDIOBREEDER]

Why would Sony release these capped versions in Europe?
I am guessing they did well with the ZX2 capped models, so they did it with the WM models.

 

[nc8000]

Why would Sony release these capped versions in Europe?
I am guessing they did well with the ZX2 capped models, so they did it with the WM models.

Because it's unfortunately the law in EU, but that is a discussion for another thread