[MuppetFace]

Quote:

 

Spoiler: Well%2C%20presumably...

this newly formed Booker Death Squad (made up of Elizabeths) will have to take down all Bookers in all parallel universes everywhere.  The game was only one of those instances.  If that's the case, then I can begin to see where a future DLC might come from.

On the subject of fate, maybe there's a chance that Columbia (and all that it entails) will happen anyway?

I wouldn't mind seeing a DLC where a whole bunch of Elizabeths come and pull our Booker out, right before he dies, only to tell him that they've spent some 10 odd years killing Bookers, and that it hasn't done a damn thing.  Finally they realize that it's not about killing Booker, but about Killing the Luteces... thus giving us yet another DLC.

 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

Well, again, that wouldn't really work because of the infinite number of targets they'd have to presumably take out themselves. A subset of infinity and whatnot. In any case, I really didn't get a sense that was the crux myself. The game presented the drowning of Booker as a culmination and cumulative event. It makes more sense to me to think that Booker's death was somehow cumulative across the multiverse: it somehow bled into all realities, just as the death of the twins when they were using their contraption brought them outside of the continuum and allowed them to appear in any world at any time.
 
Your DLC theory is intriguing, but post-credits DLC is a rarity in the gaming world and presents some practical issues. The biggest issue being it would have to occur after the ending, and that would seriously disrupt the climactic build up they were going for with it. IMHO it would really cheapen the whole experience.
 
Post-credit DLC actually happened in Mass Effect 2, as you kept playing after the Collector base, but that was a transitional game in a trilogy. Even then the effect was a little odd.
 
As for killing the Luteces... yeah, good luck with that. : P
 

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

Well, again, that wouldn't really work because of the infinite number of targets they'd have to presumably take out themselves. A subset of infinity and whatnot. In any case, I really didn't get a sense that was the crux myself. The game presented the drowning of Booker as a culmination and cumulative event. It makes more sense to me to think that Booker's death was somehow cumulative across the multiverse: it somehow bled into all realities, just as the death of the twins when they were using their contraption brought them outside of the continuum and allowed them to appear in any world at any time.
 
Your DLC theory is intriguing, but post-credits DLC is a rarity in the gaming world and presents some practical issues. The biggest issue being it would have to occur after the ending, and that would seriously disrupt the climactic build up they were going for with it. IMHO it would really cheapen the whole experience.
 
Post-credit DLC actually happened in Mass Effect 2, as you kept playing after the Collector base, but that was a transitional game in a trilogy. Even then the effect was a little odd.
 
As for killing the Luteces... yeah, good luck with that. : P
 

 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

 
Using the Doctor Who time syntax, 
 
There are certain fixed points in time that are pivotal to the stream of events. Altering that point will create repercussions throughout several dimensions. I think if you pplied that thinking here, it may be easier to swallow. Combstock/Booker is a point around which time flows, so removing him would alter the events to follow, and create similar ripples elsewhere. 
 
It took Elizabeth a long time to figure it out, as evidenced by the multiple versions of herself that were present for the execution.
 

 

[warrenpchi]

Quote:

Quote:

Spoiler: Well%2C%20presumably...

this newly formed Booker Death Squad (made up of Elizabeths) will have to take down all Bookers in all parallel universes everywhere.  The game was only one of those instances.  If that's the case, then I can begin to see where a future DLC might come from.

On the subject of fate, maybe there's a chance that Columbia (and all that it entails) will happen anyway?

I wouldn't mind seeing a DLC where a whole bunch of Elizabeths come and pull our Booker out, right before he dies, only to tell him that they've spent some 10 odd years killing Bookers, and that it hasn't done a damn thing.  Finally they realize that it's not about killing Booker, but about Killing the Luteces... thus giving us yet another DLC.

 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

Well, again, that wouldn't really work because of the infinite number of targets they'd have to presumably take out themselves. A subset of infinity and whatnot. In any case, I really didn't get a sense that was the crux myself. The game presented the drowning of Booker as a culmination and cumulative event. It makes more sense to me to think that Booker's death was somehow cumulative across the multiverse: it somehow bled into all realities, just as the death of the twins when they were using their contraption brought them outside of the continuum and allowed them to appear in any world at any time.
 
Your DLC theory is intriguing, but post-credits DLC is a rarity in the gaming world and presents some practical issues. The biggest issue being it would have to occur after the ending, and that would seriously disrupt the climactic build up they were going for with it. IMHO it would really cheapen the whole experience.
 
Post-credit DLC actually happened in Mass Effect 2, as you kept playing after the Collector base, but that was a transitional game in a trilogy. Even then the effect was a little odd.
 
As for killing the Luteces... yeah, good luck with that. : P

 

Spoiler: Right...

But that's why they come back after a decade or so and confess that they had it wrong.  It's not Booker that's the pivotal crux, but rather our very knowledge of parallel universes.  In other words, regardless of the way time unfolds in each universe, we were simply never meant to have the walls between universes come down.  And of course, that all started with the Luteces.

Also, let's not forget that the Luteces have some special properties.  They are apparently the same person.  In some universes Lutece is male (Robert), and in other universes female (Rosalind).  They're also just drifting in the multiverse it seems, permeating all and tied to none.  It's very possible that they are the unicorn that must be slain.

So now we have some wacky plot where the Luteces, and eventually Elizabeth herself, must all be wiped from existence before the first tear is ever made.  If they wanted to be absolutely ridiculous about it, maybe they could have a final DLC where its basically just a hunt for Elizabeth's pinky tip to tie up loose ends.

Well actually, if they got rid of the Luteces, then there'd be no pinky tip at all now that I think about it.  Also, there'd be no Columbia as well because she invented the levitation tech right?

 
Quote:

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

Using the Doctor Who time syntax, 
 
There are certain fixed points in time that are pivotal to the stream of events. Altering that point will create repercussions throughout several dimensions. I think if you pplied that thinking here, it may be easier to swallow. Combstock/Booker is a point around which time flows, so removing him would alter the events to follow, and create similar ripples elsewhere. 
 
It took Elizabeth a long time to figure it out, as evidenced by the multiple versions of herself that were present for the execution.

 

Spoiler: Well%2C%20I%20suppose%20that%20possible...

Though I would then be compelled to ask What makes Booker so special?

 

[warrenpchi]

Spoiler: Hmm%2C%20interesting%20snippet%20from%20the%20Bioshock%20Wiki

Robert and Rosalind extensively make reference or parody scenes, dialog and themes from Tom Stoppard's Rosencratz and Guildernstern are Dead, a play which deals with the themes of inescapable determinism, the passage of time and the nature of existence. The early coin-flipping scene featuring the 'twins' is a homage to the opening of Stoppard's play, where the character Roasencratz has flipped a coin to show heads such a great number of times that he and his companion begin to debate the nature of fate and probability. It is also a recurring theme throughout the game that no character can truly say with certainty if Robert and Rosalind are dead, a theme also explored in the play.

 

[Mimouille]

I am harassing Marcus from Inear. Hope to be able.to order soon. Looks like awesome build quality plus custom type crossover, so indeed intriguing.

Would it be a pf 1601 Rose Gold? Funny that you find one, this morning, I actually explored the rising sun interwebs to see if I got lucky and found one foe.you...which I did not.

Someone sent me a PM this morning with a lead on where I could find a long since out-of-production IEM. I've been searching for this particular model for a while now, and it's incredibly rare to find one in like-new condition these days. Here's hoping I can snag it. Anyway, I really appreciate the heads up. You know who you are. Thank you so very much, good sir!

Also what's up with this new Stage Diver semi-universal from a company called InEar Monitoring? I don't really want to look through the threads here on head-fi, but the product is intriguing. Thoughts?

 

[Mimouille]

Post coitum animal triste

So this was what's been bothering my all day. More importantly, what is your avatar doing?

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

MF, what's your new avatar from?

 

Quote:

So this was what's been bothering my all day. More importantly, what is your avatar doing?

 
 

It's something I found on Tumblr in a group dedicated to monster girls. She's a snake lady, a lamia, constricting around and squeezing the life out of some hapless young knight.

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

 
 

Spoiler: Well%2C%20I%20suppose%20that%20possible...

Though I would then be compelled to ask What makes Booker so special?

 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

He is the one who morphs into Combstock. He triggers the events that perpetrate the cycle. Killing Combstock is equivalent to cutting off the tail of a lizard...it will grow back. However, Booker is the root cause.

 

[Idsynchrono_24]

I wish I had time to reply to all this Infinite talk, but GAF has collected and sorted a ton of info and gone to great lengths to detail all the various plot points and even supplied flow charts explaining the timeline. It's been awhile since I've gone through the OP, but chances are, any questions you have may be answered there, or at the very least, you may find something new to consider -

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533205

MASSIVE END GAME SPOILERS obviously, so dont click unles you've completed Infinite

 

[5aces]

chillin' with the Main Squeeze...

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

He is the one who morphs into Combstock. He triggers the events that perpetrate the cycle. Killing Combstock is equivalent to cutting off the tail of a lizard...it will grow back. However, Booker is the root cause.

 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

As much as I dig the Dr. Who application to explain the weird timeline stuff, it's kind of only half the story here because we're not just talking about a single timeline but rather infinite timelines, and infinitely differing timelines at that.
 
If we had a single timeline, then killing Booker would indeed be killing the root cause because he is not only Booker, but also the seed that becomes Comstock. But go back to some of my previous points. In an infinite series, there are other potential triggers that turn that seed into Comstock, some happening well before the baptism. Hell, there are other "possible Bookers" who are worse than Comstock probably. Or even beyond Booker, there are other "possible Elizabeths" who could be villainous. Or "possible Aunt Fannys" or "possible Michael Jacksons." I mean, in a series of infinite worlds it's kind of weird to just have a single dude be the possible catalyst for the destruction of all of them, even multiple permutations of that same dude.
 
I think Warren's point is quite astute. "What's so special about Booker" takes on a whole new meaning in that case... y'know?
 
That's why I love the treatment of possible worlds in Portal far more. In one we have an angry sentient cloud who rules over Earth with an iron... er, fluffy... fist. Another version of the world was made entirely out of money (that Cave Johnson then used to fund his further experiments).
 
That's why I'm saying Infinity's concept of possible worlds is "soft." Because it seems to be possible worlds limited to these two people and only a handful or permutations of them centering around a single event. Which is weird.
 

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

As much as I dig the Dr. Who application to explain the weird timeline stuff, it's kind of only half the story here because we're not just talking about a single timeline but rather infinite timelines, and infinitely differing timelines at that.
 
If we had a single timeline, then killing Booker would indeed by killing the root cause because he is not only Booker, but also the seed that becomes Comstock. But go back to some of my previous points. In an infinite series, there are other potential triggers that turn that seed into Comstock, some happening well before the baptism. Hell, there are other "possible Bookers" who are worse than Comstock probably. Or even beyond Booker, there are other "possible Elizabeths" who could be villainous. Or "possible Aunt Fannys" or "possible Michael Jacksons." I mean, in a series of infinite worlds it's kind of weird to just have a single dude be the possible catalyst for the destruction of all of them, even multiple permutations of that same dude.
 
I think Warren's point is quite astute. "What's so special about Booker" takes on a whole new meaning in that case... y'know?
 
That's why I love the treatment of possible worlds in Portal far more. In one we have an angry sentient cloud who rules over Earth with an iron... er, fluffy... fist. Another version was made entirely out of money (that Cave Johnson then used to fund his further experiments).
 
That's why I'm saying Infinity's concept of possible worlds is "soft." Because it seems to be possible worlds limited to these two people and only a handful or permutations of them centering around a single event. Which is weird.
 

 
 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

Well, there are also infinite Elizabeths. One Elizabeth could possibly be the trigger or the vector that spreads the original idea one by one, until all are wiped out.
 
It could also be that all the Bookers need to progress to Combstock to keep the fabric up, each one acting as an important pillar in the dimensional continuums. Maybe with the collapse of our own Booker, the whole thing becomes unstable, wiping out the existence of all other Bookers and erasing all that happened right before Elizabeth's conception.
 

 

[warrenpchi]

Spoiler: A%20bit%20of%20a%20tangent...

But on the subject of Booker, one thing annoyed me during the whole Vox Pupuli revolt.  As we're given to understand it, in any given timeline or universe, there can only be one incarnation of Booker/Comstock right?  I mean in a natural way, free from the use of tears.  So exactly how is it that, in one of the timelines we cross into, Booker is not only Comstock but also a Vox Populi martyr at the same time?  What the eff?

 

[eke2k6]

Spoiler: A bit of a tangent...

But on the subject of Booker, one thing annoyed me during the whole Vox Pupuli revolt.  As we're given to understand it, in any given timeline or universe, there can only be one incarnation of Booker/Comstock right?  I mean in a natural way, free from the use of tears.  So exactly how is it that, in one of the timelines we cross into, Booker is not only Comstock but also a Vox Populi martyr at the same time?  What the eff?

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

good point. It could be that another version of Booker crossed into that world to stop Comstock, but ended up joining the revolution and getting killed.

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

 
 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

Well, there are also infinite Elizabeths. One Elizabeth could possibly be the trigger or the vector that spreads the original idea one by one, until all are wiped out.
 
It could also be that all the Bookers need to progress to Combstock to keep the fabric up, each one acting as an important pillar in the dimensional continuums. Maybe with the collapse of our own Booker, the whole thing becomes unstable, wiping out the existence of all other Bookers and erasing all that happened right before Elizabeth's conception.
 

 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

That's just it though: I don't see why they're interdependent as permutations. The very idea of "possibilities" implies divergences, and the worlds are completely separate outcomes. The only way for one Booker's death to cascade into all possible worlds to my thinking is if it occurs outside of the spacetime continuum, if somehow that single Booker "stands in" for all possible Bookers. This is basically what become of the twins: they exist outside of spacetime due to a freak accident and now they can appear at any point in time in any reality.
 
This goes back to my original theory about Elizabeth: that she is somehow able to "pull" the death of Booker into all possible worlds, just as she can pull things into the current world throughout the game. That seems like God-level power to me tho, and it's a little silly to think it arose due to a bit of her pinky being left behind is a smelly alleyway.
 
Your point about infinite Elizabeths goes back to another point of mine: what about the Elizabeth who has powers (because there are infinite "powered" Elizabeths and infinite "not powered" Elizabeths) who decides she wants to save Booker? Actually, there could be an infinite number of powered Elizabeths who want to save Booker and stop him from being drowned. There could be an infinite number of evil Elizabeths.
 
It all falls back to the point I made in the very beginning: that with the idea of infinite possible timelines, you kind of *have* to allow for an infinite number of exceptions and contingencies. I mean, the game even seems to acknowledge this when we see a possible Booker at the end who never sold his daughter. It would seem like Booker isn't "erased." I mean, think about the ethics behind that: there are an infinite number of Bookers who are innocent, who have nothing to do with Comstock, who never sold their daughters.