OPR8R
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The Decware TABOO MK 111 Thread
- Thread starter Frank I
- Start date
Argo Duck
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I was interested. Have been following impressions on a site that ends in 'star' as well. Overall, I find the impressions confusing. I found dubstep's very confusing but reversing a few words here and there it fell into place - DSG must've writing in a hurry! Makes me think more impressions and solid reviews are needed.
There does seem to be partial agreement from different head-fiers the X is less resolving than the 3. Makes sense - if the X was better you'd either price it higher or price the 3 down. This issue of resolution makes me keep the LCD3 on my target list.
If it's true the X is 'more neutral', it should be a good fit with Taboo and other highly tuneable tube amps.
There does seem to be partial agreement from different head-fiers the X is less resolving than the 3. Makes sense - if the X was better you'd either price it higher or price the 3 down. This issue of resolution makes me keep the LCD3 on my target list.
If it's true the X is 'more neutral', it should be a good fit with Taboo and other highly tuneable tube amps.
I am glad the Audeze guys keep pushing their own envelope. I also appreciate their connectedness with the community. Sennheiser is too big to really worry about that.
OTOH, I love my HD800's and they are likely endgame HP's for me. (for now....
)
OTOH, I love my HD800's and they are likely endgame HP's for me. (for now....
Folks,
I've finalised an assessment in regards to various noises and hums heard on the Taboo. When I initially received my Taboo I was very investigative with it in trying to find if there was any noise, hum or anything unbecoming. It was dead silent with everything I threw at it (I am not sure whether I tried IEMs, but I tried several open/closed headphones). But lately with IEMs and more sensitive headphones I was finding a background hum. I initially discarded it as not very suitable to use with those headphones, but curiosity got the better of me. So I started to swap a bunch of components in my system to try and narrow down to the root cause.
How to test: Make sure nothing is playing, no windows sounds etc, no unexpected Skype calls. Plug in IEMs. Max the volum pot out on the Taboo and any preamp volume. If you hear 0 hum you're 100% good. If you hear any hum then this is where the fun starts.
I have found three root causes to noise/hum:
1. Mains line noise. This is 90%+ solved with a power regen. If you plug your components directly into the mains unless you're really lucky and your mains is exceptionally clean you will end up getting some hum and all kinds of resident noises. In London and where I live the voltage alone is anywhere between 230 and 258V measured. I don't have an oscilloscope but I expect there are tons of nasties on the line as well. That will be heard directly as noise/hum via the Taboo PSU or other components (DAC etc).
2. USB power noise. I use an USB cable with separate leads: one for power, one for data. USB power noise can potentially be reduced by using a laptop, a battery 5v supply or by using a linear regulated 5V power supply for USB connected to the above power regen.
3. USB data line noise. Now this is where it gets more interesting. There are tons of solutions for 1 and 2. But even with using galvanic isolation for power and anything that has you, if you have data line noise via USB it will be passed through with the music by all devices in turn. One of my laptops is 100% clean (HP Elitebook). The other one passes a faint trace of noise (Dell XPS), but it's nothing compared to the desktop PC for example. I am now looking to buy a SOTM tX-USBexp card for my desktop PC and see if that solves it there as well.
Other potential causes:
Tubes: My tubes are fine. I have tons of them so I swapped them all around. No difference once they get going.
Unshielded Interconnects: If they are unshielded they can pick up all kinds of interference. I swapped a couple of sets included shielded ones to rule this one out. Not a problem for me either way.
The Taboo is a very sensitive device. When all is well it is completely quiet, which is impressive especially for a tube amplifier. As I said 0 hum. However it's very sensitive and I like to think this translates into transparency. Feed it quality downstream, it will reward you.
I am now enjoying IEMs on the Taboo with 0% hum.
I've finalised an assessment in regards to various noises and hums heard on the Taboo. When I initially received my Taboo I was very investigative with it in trying to find if there was any noise, hum or anything unbecoming. It was dead silent with everything I threw at it (I am not sure whether I tried IEMs, but I tried several open/closed headphones). But lately with IEMs and more sensitive headphones I was finding a background hum. I initially discarded it as not very suitable to use with those headphones, but curiosity got the better of me. So I started to swap a bunch of components in my system to try and narrow down to the root cause.
How to test: Make sure nothing is playing, no windows sounds etc, no unexpected Skype calls. Plug in IEMs. Max the volum pot out on the Taboo and any preamp volume. If you hear 0 hum you're 100% good. If you hear any hum then this is where the fun starts.
I have found three root causes to noise/hum:
1. Mains line noise. This is 90%+ solved with a power regen. If you plug your components directly into the mains unless you're really lucky and your mains is exceptionally clean you will end up getting some hum and all kinds of resident noises. In London and where I live the voltage alone is anywhere between 230 and 258V measured. I don't have an oscilloscope but I expect there are tons of nasties on the line as well. That will be heard directly as noise/hum via the Taboo PSU or other components (DAC etc).
2. USB power noise. I use an USB cable with separate leads: one for power, one for data. USB power noise can potentially be reduced by using a laptop, a battery 5v supply or by using a linear regulated 5V power supply for USB connected to the above power regen.
3. USB data line noise. Now this is where it gets more interesting. There are tons of solutions for 1 and 2. But even with using galvanic isolation for power and anything that has you, if you have data line noise via USB it will be passed through with the music by all devices in turn. One of my laptops is 100% clean (HP Elitebook). The other one passes a faint trace of noise (Dell XPS), but it's nothing compared to the desktop PC for example. I am now looking to buy a SOTM tX-USBexp card for my desktop PC and see if that solves it there as well.
Other potential causes:
Tubes: My tubes are fine. I have tons of them so I swapped them all around. No difference once they get going.
Unshielded Interconnects: If they are unshielded they can pick up all kinds of interference. I swapped a couple of sets included shielded ones to rule this one out. Not a problem for me either way.
The Taboo is a very sensitive device. When all is well it is completely quiet, which is impressive especially for a tube amplifier. As I said 0 hum. However it's very sensitive and I like to think this translates into transparency. Feed it quality downstream, it will reward you.
I am now enjoying IEMs on the Taboo with 0% hum.
Argo Duck
Formerly known as "AiDee"
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^ great post negura 
Hopefully it will help folks.
V-Duh
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It got me thinking about identifying some noise I found unbearable the other night when I tried my Grados. I plan on going through my whole system step-wise to identify where sound is getting in over the coming holiday weekend. Power, tubes, negative energy, ground loop, cross-cable interference, elves, dirty contacts, USB issues, aurora borealis effects, dog slobber... Should be fun!!
Raz, great job on the post. It is very helpful to isolate all of the variables. I appreciate all the time you spent doing this.
Is there an "affordable" power re-generator on the market?
uncola
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Don't forget to test dimmer switches. I just had an issue where a cheap dimmer switch caused my schiit mjolnir to buzz. Turning off the lights controlled by the dimmer switch instantly fixed it. Had to swap it out for a simple on/off light switch
mwindham08
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So I tried swapping out the left and right tubes in the CSP3 with some Sylvania 6922 Jan Green labels. Both came in the original boxes, look mint and I assumed they were. When I turned it on, horrible screeching that is not present with the stock tubes. Kind of dissapointing as I was wanting to try them out. This was supposed to be a matched pair, I am guessing not? Anyone had any luck swapping tubes at these positions?
funch
Headphoneus Supremus
The 6N1P's are the only ones that have worked for me in my CSP2+.
Currently running these http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=263&osCsid=120be95196ce86494b308cab3546da4e
and am perfectly happy.
Currently running these http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=263&osCsid=120be95196ce86494b308cab3546da4e
and am perfectly happy.
thegrobe
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First off - Negura, great post. Very helpful and informative. My Taboo came back from warranty transfer/checkup from Decware a few weeks back and they could not identify the background hum. Back home, I get a bit of hum. So I need to look into a power regenerator or isolation transformer, etc if I want to try something else. I will keep at it! The Taboo is most certainly sensitive!
Quote:
I tried a brand new pair of matched, tested Genelex 6922's from Jim McShane. No doubt these were good, well matched tubes. I put them in the CSP3 and got "pop! pop! pop! pop!" noises. Unfortunately, I let the pre warm up for 5 minutes or so before turning on the amp. so those sat there and popped - probably chewing them up before I noticed and turned it off. Apparently the SRRP circuit of the CSP3 is notoriously hard on tubes. I'm not sure if I can post the link here, but on the Decware forums, in the CSP3 section, the "CSP first pics" thread, there is quite a discussion by those who have been trying tube rolling in the CSP3 - pretty much only the 6N1P are proving reliable. I'm pretty sure I ruined my brand new pair of 6922.
So after my failed experiment with the 6922, and upon recommendation from others on the Decware forum, I ordered up a matched pair of the super-cryo Cryoset 6N1P that Funch posted above. They are solid as a rock and sound great. I'm done rolling the output tubes on the CSP3. I find plenty of fine tuning with just the rectifier and input tube.
Quote:
I tried a brand new pair of matched, tested Genelex 6922's from Jim McShane. No doubt these were good, well matched tubes. I put them in the CSP3 and got "pop! pop! pop! pop!" noises. Unfortunately, I let the pre warm up for 5 minutes or so before turning on the amp. so those sat there and popped - probably chewing them up before I noticed and turned it off. Apparently the SRRP circuit of the CSP3 is notoriously hard on tubes. I'm not sure if I can post the link here, but on the Decware forums, in the CSP3 section, the "CSP first pics" thread, there is quite a discussion by those who have been trying tube rolling in the CSP3 - pretty much only the 6N1P are proving reliable. I'm pretty sure I ruined my brand new pair of 6922.
So after my failed experiment with the 6922, and upon recommendation from others on the Decware forum, I ordered up a matched pair of the super-cryo Cryoset 6N1P that Funch posted above. They are solid as a rock and sound great. I'm done rolling the output tubes on the CSP3. I find plenty of fine tuning with just the rectifier and input tube.
funch
Headphoneus Supremus
Yah, the Decware forum is where I got the recommendation for the tubes as well.
I just got in a pair of these http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tungsram-6bq5-el84-branded-ei/ and am finding them quite enjoyable
in my Taboo II.
I just got in a pair of these http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tungsram-6bq5-el84-branded-ei/ and am finding them quite enjoyable
in my Taboo II.
V-Duh
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Do these comments from Decware suggest the Taboo will be more appealing (using Lucid modes) with the Audeze LCD-2/3 (60/45 ohms) than the LCD-X (22 ohms)?
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