[V-Duh]

Quote:

Balanced vs. unbalanced shouldn't make a difference in sound quality in itself. Balanced was designed for avoiding interference and hum when running longer lengths. Not a problem in most home environments.
 
When we do hear differences, it's usually due to variances in input/output implementation. For example, the reason "balanced" sounds so much better via the Bryston BHA-1 is because the unbalanced port was only added as an afterthought. Thus, due to the internal design compromise, it doesn't reflect what the amp can truly do. It's the amp, not the cable.
 
Taboo MKIII has dual 1/4" unbalanced jacks as well as a pair of balanced XLR's up front. Might/might not sound significantly different depending upon the internal configuration. But I aims to find out at the next meeting... 

 
See...more knowledge, better answer.  Thanks Nick.

 

[dminches]

Quote:

Balanced vs. unbalanced shouldn't make a difference in sound quality in itself. Balanced was designed for avoiding interference and hum when running longer lengths. Not a problem in most home environments.
 
When we do hear differences, it's usually due to variances in input/output implementation. For example, the reason "balanced" sounds so much better via the Bryston BHA-1 is because the unbalanced port was only added as an afterthought. Thus, due to the internal design compromise, it doesn't reflect what the amp can truly do. It's the amp, not the cable.
 
Taboo MKIII has dual 1/4" unbalanced jacks as well as a pair of balanced XLR's up front. Might/might not sound significantly different depending upon the internal configuration. But I aims to find out at the next meeting... 

 
Well said.  What you said is consistent with what I've been told by the guys who design and build all this stuff.

 

[negura]

Good points. Is there any recommendation from Decware regarding Balanced vs SE?

 

[Argo Duck]

Yes excellent points from Nick!

Not sure, but I think an amp originally designed to drive speakers (such as the Taboo series) may lend itself more simply and directly to balanced hp out than unbalanced...but I'm happy to stand corrected.

If true though, might give balanced a small sonic advantage (with speaker amps), and support what Frank found between the two options.

 

[dminches]

Quote:

Not sure, but I think an amp originally designed to drive speakers (such as the Taboo series) may lend itself more simply and directly to balanced hp out than unbalanced...but I'm happy to stand corrected.

 
Why would they be related?

 

[Argo Duck]

Iirc you can wire straight through versus having to common up. But probably wrong - I did a little electronics (which didnt interest me) in my physics degree, and that was 30 years ago.

Best ignore me and move on I think!

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Yes excellent points from Nick!

Not sure, but I think an amp originally designed to drive speakers (such as the Taboo series) may lend itself more simply and directly to balanced hp out than unbalanced...but I'm happy to stand corrected.
 

 
Since the Taboo's output is transformer-coupled, it should already be a balanced output headphone amplifier.
 
se

 

[Argo Duck]

Thanks Steve! So is there anything one has to do to get to the unbalanced output that doesn't have to be done to the balanced hp out?

And could this potentially effect SQ?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Thanks Steve! So is there anything one has to do to get to the unbalanced output that doesn't have to be done to the balanced hp out?

And could this potentially effect SQ?

 
There would be no unbalanced output unless the bottoms of the output transformer secondaries are tied to ground, in which case all of the outputs would be unbalanced. I don't know exactly how the Taboo is wired internally so I can't say anything with absolute certainty.
 
se

 

[Argo Duck]

I was thinking ground came into it...thanks for clarifying Steve. And I'll stick to things I know more about in future.

 

[V-Duh]

I found another Taboo tube rolling option to try:  a pair of Ei Elite EL84EG tubes in a box of audio stuff hidden away.  It appears that in early-2000s this tube was recommended by a couple Head-Fiers (including Nick Dangerous) for the ASL MG-Head.  I understand they were made in a factory in Niš, Yugoslavia (now Serbia) using “Philips technology.”  The quality was reported to be good but suffered after the Yugoslav wars in the 1990s.  I’m hoping the Elite tubes did not suffer quality issues as much as others.
 
The internals do seem to be similar to the Amperex and Philips Holland EL84s.  I also notice the current JJ EL84 is set up the same way – as a copy of the Philips setup?  Does anyone have a recollection of the sound signature of these tubes? 

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Aha! The old MG Head OTL days w/HD580... what good times (and value!). Seems I'm back where I started again with Senns and tubes in another price-performance OTL configuration. Oh well, I likes what I likes.

Wish I could recall the sonic signature of those Elites, but too many Belgian ales have filtered through my kidneys since then. I remember I didn't think the MG Head was worth shelling out for big buck EL84 drivers... just stuck with the JJ's and spent the cash rolling the signal tube. Never found better than the Raytheon windmill getter 5751 black plate and yellow label Sylvania JHS-5751 black plate in the MG Head.

I guess history really does repeat itself, because it's the same story with the CSP. Drivers are stock 6N1P-EV and again I didn't hear enough benefit to swap them out. Spent the good money on the signal and rectifier tubes instead. (Mullard old shield 1960's E88CC and EML 5U4G meshplate).

The trick is to roll the signal tube first, then the rectifier... because it's about the synergy of the two together. Then swap a few pairs of drivers and see where that takes you.

 

[V-Duh]

Quote:

Aha! The old MG Head OTL days w/HD580... what good times (and value!). Seems I'm back where I started again with Senns and tubes in another price-performance OTL configuration. Oh well, I likes what I likes.

The trick is to roll the signal tube first, then the rectifier... because it's about the synergy of the two together. Then swap a few pairs of drivers and see where that takes you.

 
My first desktop setup was the MG-Head OTL with an HD600.  Didn't have the time or energy to research tube rolling back then...just wanted to listen to music.
 
I have a few signal tubes showing up tomorrow:  Ediswan CV2492, Matsu****a/National PCC88, Philips 7DJ8, & Siemens 7308.  I figured that would give me a range of signatures to try.
 
My Taboo was shipped with a Valve Art 274b so that's a good starter.  I also picked up a Philips 5R4GYS.  Not a wide range but just beginning.
 
For the drivers I have some Philips EL84s and those Ei EL84EGs.  However, it seems Steve really set the amp up for the SV83s so I don't expect much beyond stock.
 
In all reality it's premature to be purchasing tubes as the amp doesn't have enough hours on it to be making meaningful changes.  More importantly, I plan on tuning it for the LCD-3 that I don't have yet because of the IRS taking a big hunk of flesh on the 15th.  Cart...horse...what?...
 
Thanks for the info!

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Even if you don't plan to roll driver tubes, it's a good idea to get a pair of EL84's just to hear the difference from the stock SV83's. It is noticeable enough to base a preference upon.

Also good point about voicing for cans. The HD800 benefits from quality bass, which was a strong criteria for selecting the tubes I ended up with. But I overdid it at first! It takes time to figure out where "effective neutral" is, relative to everything in the chain (and in your head).

 

[mwindham08]

If you swap out the SV83's with something else can you still use the Lucid modes?