[plakat]

No charts, graphs, diffusion plots will ever convey the joy from actually listening !

Yes, measurements are more a tool: they can help explain why something doesn’t sound good and give a hint what may be going on or, in the best case, even help with solving that problem. No manufacturer in their right mind would replace listening tests with graphs. But neither should they solely rely on listening: graphs help checking for problems and may prove developers have done their homework. They do not prove that someone will like how a headphone sounds.

 

[Nostoi]

@plakat and @Nostoi thank you very much for your Beyer DT 700 Pro impressions. Maybe I will purchase them for Christmas to be a closed complement for my Dt 1990 Pro. I want to ask you about the isolation of the new 700 Pro X. For example, plakat can compare with your 9200s (a good reference for me) or other closed cans you have and Nostoi with the Fostex TH 900 (not good in that regard) you had or your Rögnir...

Listening to "Anathema - Hindsight" while writing, with the 1990s

Isolation is excellent, really outstanding. TH900 are the opposite for semi-closed headphones. For the Rögnir, because the pads are somewhat flat, I wouldn't say they're great for isolation or leakage. Credit to DCA Stealth for being better in that respect. ZMF VC have better isolation and less leakage, though 700Pro remains top dog.

Good choice on the music. And the headphones. I think I've ordered the 1990s at least 3 times in the past. Probably I'll order again now that I'm back on the Beyer train.

 

[plakat]

@plakat and @Nostoi thank you very much for your Beyer DT 700 Pro impressions. Maybe I will purchase them for Christmas to be a closed complement for my Dt 1990 Pro. I want to ask you about the isolation of the new 700 Pro X. For example, plakat can compare with your 9200s (a good reference for me) or other closed cans you have and Nostoi with the Fostex TH 900 (not good in that regard) you had or your Rögnir...

Listening to "Anathema - Hindsight" while writing, with the 1990s

I'm currently on vacation and do not have the D9200 with me (the DT700 is here, being the new toy in town it was allowed to join me
The isolation of the D9200 was nothing special, so I think its ok to say from memory that the DT700 isolates much better. Given its moderate price its definitely worth checking out.

 

[Terriero]

Isolation is excellent, really outstanding. TH900 are the opposite for semi-closed headphones. For the Rögnir, because the pads are somewhat flat, I wouldn't say they're great for isolation or leakage. Credit to DCA Stealth for being better in that respect. ZMF VC have better isolation and less leakage, though 700Pro remains top dog.

Good choice on the music. And the headphones. I think I've ordered the 1990s at least 3 times in the past. Probably I'll order again now that I'm back on the Beyer train.

I'm currently on vacation and do not have the D9200 with me (the DT700 is here, being the new toy in town it was allowed to join me
The isolation of the D9200 was nothing special, so I think its ok to say from memory that the DT700 isolates much better. Given its moderate price its definitely worth checking out.

Thanks to both of you. I think I have my own christmas gift now... And, like you Nostoi, maybe I will buy again the Beyer DT 150 which I miss sometimes and add the DT 100 velour pads that @shampoosuicide mentioned here (because with standart pads sometimes I felt much pressure). I am going to ask in the DT 700 thread about the inner size of the pads (because I had issues with my T1s and not with DT 1990 or Amiron).

I asked about isolation because sometimes (I have to be in a special mood) I enjoy a lot my HD 800s but I have to find that special moment (no children playing behind me or watching TV, not at nights to don't disturb the family and that special mood inside me) to use them and I prefer to use my closed headphones or the somewhat semi-closed at not high volume DT 1990 Pro.

By the way, @shampoosuicide are these the foam pads you were referring? In that page Thomann don't mention a DT 150 compatibility.

 

[shampoosuicide]

Thanks to both of you. I think I have my own christmas gift now... And, like you Nostoi, maybe I will buy again the Beyer DT 150 which I miss sometimes and add the DT 100 velour pads that @shampoosuicide mentioned here (because with standart pads sometimes I felt much pressure). I am going to ask in the DT 700 thread about the inner size of the pads (because I had issues with my T1s and not with DT 1990 or Amiron).

I asked about isolation because sometimes (I have to be in a special mood) I enjoy a lot my HD 800s but I have to find that special moment (no children playing behind me or watching TV, not at nights to don't disturb the family and that special mood inside me) to use them and I prefer to use my closed headphones or the somewhat semi-closed at not high volume DT 1990 Pro.

By the way, @shampoosuicide are these the foam pads you were referring? In that page Thomann don't mention a DT 150 compatibility.

Those are the pads, alright. They fit the DT 150 perfectly, in my experience.

 

[dan3952]

Yesterday I auditioned the Focal Celestee and DCA Aeon 2 Noire headphones. When playing Hotel California (Live - 1994) by The Eagles, I loved the punch and impact of the Celestee as it really brought out the hang drum in the song to life and made me feel I was there. The Noire was weaker in bringing out the hang drum. However, I hated how narrow and congested the soundstage on the Celestee was and I loved the wider and more open soundstage on the Noire.

Can anyone recommend a closed headphone (price doesn't matter) that can match or beat the macrodynamics, punch, and impact of the Celestee but with a considerably more open soundstage (hopefully as open as the Noire's )?

Or alternatively, a closed headphone that can match the openness of soundstage of the Noire but with more punch, impact, and macrodynamics than the Noire?

I had Focal Clears in 2018, and had noted the lousy soundstage on those, as well. My $500 Shure SRH-1540 closed backs, have a better soundstage than those (but not better imaging, and certainly not better resolution). As long as Focal uses metal drivers, I think I will find their headphones to be "technical": that is, the resolution is good, but it's not always presented in an enjoyable way. I find percussion to be fatiguing in particular, with metal drivers. I had used JRiver's DSP features with every pair of headphones I have had, to widen the soundstage (though the images of the different instruments and voices in the mix, also widen, at the same time). I also EQ all of them, after having studied their FR curves carefully.

My picks would be the Audeze LCD-2C, or LCD-XC, for dynamics (if you can deal with their dark signature which is different from lively Focals). The former ones, are the same price as the two you've tried. I had heard they had fixed the typical Audeze hole in the upper mid range with the LCD-XCs. I haven't owned either of those, but had I LCD-3s for a bit. I have not heard anything that has better dynamics than those, out of ten or more pairs of headphones I've tried. That, shouldn't come as a surprise, when you look at how big the magnets are.

 

[shaylin3]

After more than 500 hours of BURN IN, L5000 is now a perfect all-round earphone for me
If you can only choose one headset as the only one, I will choose L5K
If you need another headset as a complement, I recommend TH900

 

[oqvist]

I had Focal Clears in 2018, and had noted the lousy soundstage on those, as well. My $500 Shure SRH-1540 closed backs, have a better soundstage than those (but not better imaging, and certainly not better resolution). As long as Focal uses metal drivers, I think I will find their headphones to be "technical": that is, the resolution is good, but it's not always presented in an enjoyable way. I find percussion to be fatiguing in particular, with metal drivers. I had used JRiver's DSP features with every pair of headphones I have had, to widen the soundstage (though the images of the different instruments and voices in the mix, also widen, at the same time). I also EQ all of them, after having studied their FR curves carefully.

My picks would be the Audeze LCD-2C, or LCD-XC, for dynamics (if you can deal with their dark signature which is different from lively Focals). The former ones, are the same price as the two you've tried. I had heard they had fixed the typical Audeze hole in the upper mid range with the LCD-XCs. I haven't owned either of those, but had I LCD-3s for a bit. I have not heard anything that has better dynamics than those, out of ten or more pairs of headphones I've tried. That, shouldn't come as a surprise, when you look at how big the magnets are.

I have the Focal Elear. Open headphones but yes it´s soundstage is so narrow I don´t understand how. Dunno if the drivers is severy angled but I have several headphones with angled drivers that is not that narrow. On my tube amp it could be tolerated though.

I had the LCD-2 and it´s not the answer for dynamics. I would simply say dynamic drivers for best dynamics. if dynamic mean extension then yes magneplanars is great but they made me discover a new audiofile term dynamic compression is very true for a lot of magneplanar headphones.

The Ether C and Aeon 2 Noire is the ones that I feel suffer the least of the magneplanars I tried. LCD-2, Ananda, T50RP.

Otherwise Kennerton Magni take full benefit of it´s dynamic drivers. Don´t isolate nearly as well though could be seen as semi closed. Relatively wide soundstage certainly better then the Noire for my ears. Ether C is closer and have some benefits and some deficits compared to Magnis soundstaging. But the Ether C drivers dynamics is probably quite similar to Noires I feel though it has a different presentation with more air.

 

[E-norm]

So, after returning back to work at the office I felt the old upgradis coming on and I after living happily with the Meze 99 Classics at work I want to try something else. Open plan office makes isolation a top priority and hence comfort as well as I will be using them for many hours a day. At home I have the Susvara, VC and 1266 if that says anything about my preferences. Haven't really been following the closed back scene lately. Aeon Noire is high on my list but I was wondering if there are any other great suggestions?

 

[krenky]

So, after returning back to work at the office I felt the old upgradis coming on and I after living happily with the Meze 99 Classics at work I want to try something else. Open plan office makes isolation a top priority and hence comfort as well as I will be using them for many hours a day. At home I have the Susvara, VC and 1266 if that says anything about my preferences. Haven't really been following the closed back scene lately. Aeon Noire is high on my list but I was wondering if there are any other great suggestions?

Well if you are about quality then the one and only Denon D9200. The isolation is not perfect but decent. For many users here they are the top choice.

Also would consider ZMF VC, Audio Technica ATH-AWKT, Sony MDR-Z1R, Audeze LCD-XC dont forget to look at Kennerton Rögnir or Magni.
Or something on the budget but with one of the best sound isolation Sennheiser HD25 (they are on ear, hurt after longer period.)

 

[Malevolent]

I am not an analytical listener. In other words, I don't dissect lows, mids and highs. I am always looking for engagement with the music which is a pretty nebulous and an individual preference. When I hear music from a headphone that engages me, I automatically break out into "couch dancing" . I can't always quantify or describe why a headphone grabs me which is why I don't post much on this forum. There are many members here (I'm looking at you @Malevolent) who can put into words what the sound experience is like with different headphones and I so appreciate that ability.

If I were pressed to try to express my preferences, I would say I love subbass, forward mids and sparkly treble. But most important to me is imaging - the way the sound plays around inside my head. I like to feel like I'm in the center of the music. I love depth, width and height equally, but I need all three to play well with each other.

Having said all that, the VCs were missing something major for me. The sound, even on the Pendant/Soekris combo, still felt a little tame - missing some excitement?? It's so hard to put into words. All I know is that I would start with them for my nightly 3 hour listening sessions and, after about 45 minutes I would lose interest. I would then reach for the Sundaras and, within minutes, I would be "couch dancing". This would happen every single time I listened to the VCs. This went on for about 2 months because I didn't want to give up on these headphones that I had spent so much money on and waited so long to receive. Finally I just had to be honest with myself and sold them.

I totally love the iFi system and feel it is end-game for me. My goal now is to find headphones that sound amazing on that system and not the other way around. If anyone is into EDM, I recommend that system. There are so many ways that you can make adjustments to get the sound you want. I also swear by the Lokius which adds another level of tweaking.

Sorry for the longest post I have ever written on Head-fi.

I don't think your impressions are unfounded, to be honest - I, too, feel that the Vérité Closed is lacking a little in the engagement aspect. This is probably due to its smoother highs; the treble peaks aren't very prominent, and the overall presentation of the higher registers are more laid-back than forward, more tame than energetic. This is the headphone's sole "weakness", though - it excels in other aspects of its sound, especially in the technical components.

Nevertheless, if you favor a more relaxing listen, with excellent texture and impact in the lows, coupled with a grand, lush midrange performance, the Vérité Closed remains one of the best in the business. However, if your require more energy, spark, and excitement, there are other closed headphones that perform this role better.

By the way, which iFi system do you have? Is is the Pro iDSD and iCAN combo? I enjoy this pairing myself; earlier this year, I did briefly consider purchasing this stack. The major feature set provided in the Pro iDSD is quite unparalleled in the world of high-end DACs.

Anyway, I hope that you find that perfect headphone that synergizes with your system. Good luck!

 

[Malevolent]

No apologies That was a great expression of your passion for this hobby.

Also, seriously THREE hours a night ?!

That's how long anybody could last before their neck starts aching.

You'll see the gains after a few months of use, though. It'll be 3.5 hours, then 4, then 4.5....

 

[Malevolent]

Thanks @Malevolent for starting this thread. I've not seen this it until just now. My listening circumstances are such that I am best off just having closed backs.

My listening @home: Verite Closed, @work - Eikons. At some point, I'd like a closed back planar at some point and it sounds like the Rognir may be a good fit. Thanks @Nostoi for the recent comments on the Rognir compared to the VC. If anyone else thinks there is a good closed-back planar contender, I'd love to hear.

Slightly off-topic, but another nice thing on this thread is the many electronic music fans . 90+% of my listening is electronic music. There is a lot of poorly produced electronic music, but there is also some very well produced electronic music, which from a production point of view is novel and interesting IMO. You can really use the whole sound spectrum and you're not limited to what natural instruments produce. So - on that note, here is a quick electronic music sampler of the moment... (don't listen to the crap-quality bandcamp links, try on Tidal or however you get high quality music!)

Tipper - Jettison Mind Hatch is a 2019 favourite album, but he just released a new short allbum called Insolito. Start with this one:


Keerd:


BOP


Mr Bill


Cheers

Welcome, fellow closed-back + EDM music fan!

Anyway, I think that it is less a case of "closed-back fans love EDM" and more of "fans of EDM prefer using closed-back headphones".

Anecdotally, I've tried a bunch of top-end headphones in my life, and only closed-back headphones keep my head bopping to dance music.

 

[squeakez]

I don't think your impressions are unfounded, to be honest - I, too, feel that the Vérité Closed is lacking a little in the engagement aspect. This is probably due to its smoother highs; the treble peaks aren't very prominent, and the overall presentation of the higher registers are more laid-back than forward, more tame than energetic. This is the headphone's sole "weakness", though - it excels in other aspects of its sound, especially in the technical components.

Nevertheless, if you favor a more relaxing listen, with excellent texture and impact in the lows, coupled with a grand, lush midrange performance, the Vérité Closed remains one of the best in the business. However, if your require more energy, spark, and excitement, there are other closed headphones that perform this role better.

By the way, which iFi system do you have? Is is the Pro iDSD and iCAN combo? I enjoy this pairing myself; earlier this year, I did briefly consider purchasing this stack. The major feature set provided in the Pro iDSD is quite unparalleled in the world of high-end DACs.

Anyway, I hope that you find that perfect headphone that synergizes with your system. Good luck!

Thank you for putting into words exactly how I felt about the VC. The mids were wonderful and the subbass was really good. But the highs that I needed to feel really engaged were only so-so.

Yes, I have the Pro iDSD and iCAN combo and I feel like it could be end-game for me. There are so many tweaks you can make, especially between solid state, full tube, and tube+ that I can't imagine finding another amp/dac combo that offers so much variety. And I do feel like I have found the perfect headphone that synergizes so beautifully with the iFi system in the Sundaras. I bought these on Amazon about 6 months ago, fully intending to try them and then return them. I was literally shocked at how good they sounded. Just about every night when I am finished listening and taking them off, I have the thought "these are as close to perfection as I have come so far". They are my benchmark for every other headphone I try now.

I just picked up a used set of Z1Rs for the second time because I really wanted to try them on the iFi system. They are awesome! I've only tried them on the full tube setting and will try the others over the next several nights. Not better than the Sundaras - just different. I also placed an order for the Beyer DT 700 PRO X. I used to be a huge fan of the 770/80 so I am looking forward to trying these out after reading all the positive impressions on this thread.

 

[squeakez]

That's how long anybody could last before their neck starts aching.

You'll see the gains after a few months of use, though. It'll be 3.5 hours, then 4, then 4.5....

You should see the size of my neck .