[Andykong]

I didn't use any measuring equipment to determine the power output; it was just through subjective listening. I was using my V-Moda M-100 headphones with my Rockboxed iPod Classic, and while using the headphone output port on the iPod, running through the line input of the Cayin C5. (This is how I always listen.)

I don't use the 30-pin port on the iPod (as a line-out) for listening, because this will disable the volume control on the iPod. The way I listen (with "double amping") makes no audible difference in the sound quality for me, nor does it affect the power output of the Cayin C5.

For the EQ settings, I only used my M-100s, so I can't be sure that my "adjustment" numbers will apply to other kinds of headphones. These numbers may or may not apply to other headphones; I just haven't tested that.

Anyway, if you haven't already, I'd strongly suggest that you follow this link to my in-depth comparison post from April 2015, comparing the E12A to the C5. Regarding the power output, here's a little excerpt from it:


In other words, the E12A is rated at 400mW, so if the Cayin C5 has 2.25 times that amount, then that comes to 900mW for the C5. Check out that link!

Yes, I have read the link before, but since you didn't specify the detail of your testing/audition at your post, so I need to clarify the issues.

If you are not using any measurement tools, and is "rating" an amplifier with subjective experience, then your experience will be affected by the gears (especially the headphone) you used. If your original statement has included V-Moda M-100 as reference and do not generalize as a broadly applicable standard , it will make more sense.

The V-mode M100 is a high sensitivity low impedance headphone headphone (103 dB @ 1kHz 1mW, 32ohm), based on my personal experience and numerous reviewers, it is easy to drive, smartphone friendly and doesn’t need an amplifier to sound good. While I consider M100 as a fun, excited and interesting headphone, I don't think this is a good reference tool on "rating" of output power of headphone amplifier, especially if you want to generalize your finding. Your personal experience will certainly be very different if you were to use a low sensitivity Fostex T50RP (50 ohm, 92dB (at 1kHz, 1mW)) or a high impedance Sennheiser HD 650 (300ohm, 112dB/mW).

If you specify your power rating observation are relevant to certain (or one particular) headphone, I certainly think that is a valid observation and applause for your sharing. However if you want to generalize your power rating as our general product characteristic, I would certainly challenger the validity of your opinion.

In addition, you are implying that if the source equipment has 10 bands EQ feature, then after your proposed EQ setting, you can change the A5 to sound like C5, with or without bass boost. If this is an EQ setting that were only relevant for rockboxed ipod and M100, I'll certainly welcome your contribution , but if you were to generalize your opinion, I would like to highlight several problems such as:

1. Not all DAP/smarthpone with EQ sounds the same
2. If you change the source or the headphone, it might not necessary be possible to stimulate the sound signature of another amplifier through "simple" EQ setting.
3. You selected a basshead headphone, that will limit the validity of your observation when you want to generalize your opinion.

Regarding the Vmoda M100, I would like to quote the comment from Innerfidelity as follow:

The V-Moda M-100 has dramatically emphasized bass, nominally up about 8-9dB over the mid-range. That's a lot of bass, and it starts to kick in from 400Hz to 200Hz. I would have preferred the bass boost to happen about 100Hz lower. For acoustic music and smooth Jazz like Foreplay or Dave Grusin, this upper bass/low mids accentuation is a bit too thick.

I'd call the treble "sparkly." It's nice and present, without being strident or harsh. It's a bit unnatural though, and lacks extension in the highest octave. The thing is, it works with pop and streaming sources where loudness wars and compressions of all kinds can conspire to make a mess of the treble. The M-100 is wonderfully forgiving here. Assuming you're looking for a fun, bass-rich headphone, I think you'll be quite happy with the treble here. Again, if you're looking for air and transparency, look elsewhere.

 

[Andykong]

Nothing wrong with that; people do it all the time whenever they hook their rig up to other equipment. Even line-outs use a non-adjustable amp of some sort to boost the audio from the DAC to an audible level for the power amp to work with.

You just have to test & make sure your gain levels don't introduce clipping & that there is no channel imbalance up the audio chain.

The issue is not double amping. Please read the statement again:

I don't use the 30-pin port on the iPod (as a line-out) for listening, because this will disable the volume control on the iPod. The way I listen (with "double amping") makes no audible difference in the sound quality for me, [COLOR=FF00AA]nor does it affect the power output of the Cayin C5.[/COLOR]

Is it truely the case? The output of the first stage amplifier (ipod in this case) has no implication on the "perceived" output power of second stage amplifier (C5 in this case)?

 

[ceemsc]

The issue is not double amping. Please read the statement again:

Is it truely the case? The output of the first stage amplifier (ipod in this case) has no implication on the "perceived" output power of second stage amplifier (C5 in this case)?

I cannot comment on the effect on the C5 but using the 30 pin lineout on the iPod bypasses the iPod's headphone amplifier so the chain is now : AAC -> Ipod DAC -> C5 Amp -> Headphones...

 

[Andykong]

I cannot comment on the effect on the C5 but using the 30 pin lineout on the iPod bypasses the iPod's headphone amplifier so the chain is now : AAC -> Ipod DAC -> C5 Amp -> Headphones...

ipod DAC? Not familiar with that, but this is certainly a feasible setup, especially if your headphone required more power then the iPod can handle directly, this will make a lot of sense.

 

[DiscoProJoe]

Yes, I have read the link before, but since you didn't specify the detail of your testing/audition at your post, so I need to clarify the issues.

If you are not using any measurement tools, and is "rating" an amplifier with subjective experience, then your experience will be affected by the gears (especially the headphone) you used. If your original statement has included V-Moda M-100 as reference and do not generalize as a broadly applicable standard , it will make more sense.

The V-mode M100 is a high sensitivity low impedance headphone headphone (103 dB @ 1kHz 1mW, 32ohm), based on my personal experience and numerous reviewers, it is easy to drive, smartphone friendly and doesn’t need an amplifier to sound good. While I consider M100 as a fun, excited and interesting headphone, I don't think this is a good reference tool on "rating" of output power of headphone amplifier, especially if you want to generalize your finding. Your personal experience will certainly be very different if you were to use a low sensitivity Fostex T50RP (50 ohm, 92dB (at 1kHz, 1mW)) or a high impedance Sennheiser HD 650 (300ohm, 112dB/mW).

If you specify your power rating observation are relevant to certain (or one particular) headphone, I certainly think that is a valid observation and applause for your sharing. However if you want to generalize your power rating as our general product characteristic, I would certainly challenger the validity of your opinion.

In addition, you are implying that if the source equipment has 10 bands EQ feature, then after your proposed EQ setting, you can change the A5 to sound like C5, with or without bass boost. If this is an EQ setting that were only relevant for rockboxed ipod and M100, I'll certainly welcome your contribution , but if you were to generalize your opinion, I would like to highlight several problems such as:

• Not all DAP/smarthpone with EQ sounds the same
• If you change the source or the headphone, it might not necessary be possible to stimulate the sound signature of another amplifier through "simple" EQ setting.
• You selected a basshead headphone, that will limit the validity of your observation when you want to generalize your opinion.

 
Yes, I'll have to concur here. From now on when talking about this, I'll be sure and specify that this is with my Rockboxed iPod Classic and V-Moda M-100 headphones, and that my numbers may or may not translate to other kinds of headphones or equipment.
 
Humorously, if you follow that link (to the post from April 2015), I talk about how I went to my local hi-fi shop, and made the drivers on the Sennheiser HD 650 bottom out with the beat with my EQ presets and Cayin C5 amp, but the FiiO E12A didn't quite have enough power to make that happen! 

 
So, with the HD 650, I was unable to gauge the difference in power output between the E12A vs. the C5.  Oh well.... 

 
Anyway, as for Innerfidelity's comments about the M-100, and about its drawback of having bloated upper midbass / lower midrange, that's where DiscoProJoe's Rockbox EQ Presets come to the rescue!  Most of these presets have a big dip in the midbass and lower-midrange frequencies to counteract all the bass boosts combined in the system:
 
1. From the Rockbox-firmware bass-boost feature of +12 dB (which is separate from the equalizer and can be combined with it)
2. From the Cayin C5 bass boost switch, which adds about 5.5 dB of bass
3. From the natural bass-boosted sound signature of the V-Moda M-100 headphones (with the bass boosted by about 8 dB)
 
So these EQ presets take out the extra midbass from the all those bass boosts, and continue to further boost the low-end sub-bass on top of all the bass boosts combined.  With this, I'm able to make my M-100s put out...not only...throbbing sub-bass, but an amazing soundstage and awesome musical detail in the mids and highs as well.
 
None of the "audiophile" types of headphones that I've heard at my local hi-fi shop...have as much sub-bass sensitivity as the M-100. In other words, I can't play them as loud and with as much sub-bass as my M-100s without getting amp clipping (from my Cayin C5), or without getting driver distortion, or without the drivers bottoming out with the beat.
 
And as for the treble (i.e., the highs), I definitely prefer it on the M-100. I can crank up the M-100 without the treble hurting my ears, and it still sounds nice and crisp. By contrast, the HD 650's treble sounds a bit recessed.
 
Anyway, perhaps you or some of your colleagues can come to the New York spring meetup in June 2017 and hear what I've got with my extreme EQ presets. You may be very pleasantly surprised at how it sounds.

 

[DiscoProJoe]

I cannot comment on the effect on the C5 but using the 30 pin lineout on the iPod bypasses the iPod's headphone amplifier so the chain is now : AAC -> Ipod DAC -> C5 Amp -> Headphones...

 
I think an iPod Classic with the original Apple firmware can put out a digital signal through the 30-pin port, running out to an external DAC/amp. But I don't believe that a Rockboxed iPod will put out a digital signal through the 30-pin port, running to an external DAC/amp -- just an analog line-out signal.
 
Of course, when plugging a Rockboxed iPod into a PC (from the 30-pin port to USB), this will disable all analog outputs on the iPod, and all its screen functions. (Your PC can then read and transfer files digitally.)

 

[Andykong]

[COLOR=FF00AA]Merry Christmas[/COLOR]​

On behalf of Cayin, I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year. I know we are always busy this holiday season, especially when Christmas is not a public holiday in Mainland China , but I want to take the time to wish you and yours, happy holidays. This is a special day for family and friends, there isn't anything can't wait until tomorrow, so relax and hug your beloveds around you, play some music, and enjoy the moment together.

I just had a wonderful Christmas dinner with my family. We were a bit late this year as my niece just arrived from LA this morning, but family is always worth waiting for, and good music will make the dinner ever more involving and pleasant. This is one of the playlist that I appreciated during the holiday season and I want to share this with you.

NOTE: If you can't see the embedded video above, please CLICK HERE to see the video.​

 

[Sennheiser Yo]

How exactly do I setup my cayin c5 amp/dac with my galaxy s5? Is there a certain order in which I have to plug in the otg to my android then my the headphones? I've got it to work a couple times since it got it a couple days ago but usually when I try to use the amp with my hd600 am galaxy s5 it sounds really distorted, I think there I's agony certain order to set it up but don't know what it is please help.

 

[BeBop Lives]

How exactly do I setup my cayin c5 amp/dac with my galaxy s5? Is there a certain order in which I have to plug in the otg to my android then my the headphones? I've got it to work a couple times since it got it a couple days ago but usually when I try to use the amp with my hd600 am galaxy s5 it sounds really distorted, I think there I's agony certain order to set it up but don't know what it is please help.

Yes, run S5 headphone line out to C5 line in.  Headphone out from C5 to your hd600.  Set Galaxy volume at 3/4 to start and after turning on C5 raise its volume only slightly so as not to ruin your hearing. There could be a problem with using your S5 but you wont know until you try this.  Further, set C5 gain to High, and leave the bass out to start.

 

[m usicguy]

Break in question,
 
I think i read here in the 144 pages that cayin does not recommend running the amp while charging?  Is this correct or can you do this.  Id love to leave it on a charger and get 100+ hours on it before i listen.
 
musicguy

 

[teston]

  Break in question,
 
I think i read here in the 144 pages that cayin does not recommend running the amp while charging?  Is this correct or can you do this.  Id love to leave it on a charger and get 100+ hours on it before i listen.
 
musicguy

In the manual, they don't recommend charging the cayin C5 and used the C5 as power bank to charge other devices at the same time. They don't mention about charging it while used with other features like amp (or dac with dac edition) so it will be fine.

 

[BeBop Lives]

  In the manual, they don't recommend charging the cayin C5 and used the C5 as power bank to charge other devices at the same time. They don't mention about charging it while used with other features like amp (or dac with dac edition) so it will be fine.

I got into the habit of never playing anything while charging.  It just seems to work out better that way.

 

[m usicguy]

Anybody have a recommended time for burn in or their experience?
 
Anybody know what range the bass boast actually is?
 
musicguy

 

[Andykong]

How exactly do I setup my cayin c5 amp/dac with my galaxy s5? Is there a certain order in which I have to plug in the otg to my android then my the headphones? I've got it to work a couple times since it got it a couple days ago but usually when I try to use the amp with my hd600 am galaxy s5 it sounds really distorted, I think there I's agony certain order to set it up but don't know what it is please help.

Are you referring to C5 headphone amp. or C5DAC Dac/Amp? Click here if you are referring to the C5DAC because this is C5 discussion thread.

Android OTG should work like plug and play, the normal procedures should be:

1. Turn off C5DAC, connect to Android device (please make sure you are using an OTG cable for the connection)
2. Turn on C5DAC
3. Start playback at mobile phone

The headphone can plug into C5DAC anytime, it doesn't affect the connection. Please make sure your USB cable is connect to the DAC input USB port, and have switched to DAC rather then charging.

 

[Andykong]

Break in question,

I think i read here in the 144 pages that cayin does not recommend running the amp while charging?  Is this correct or can you do this.  Id love to leave it on a charger and get 100+ hours on it before i listen.

musicguy

In the manual, they don't recommend charging the cayin C5 and used the C5 as power bank to charge other devices at the same time. They don't mention about charging it while used with other features like amp (or dac with dac edition) so it will be fine.

We do not recommend charging and listen to the amp at the same time because the power circuit will operate at a higher capacity during charging and generate some interference to the audio circuit and will affect your listening experience. It is safe to do this and will not damage your amplifier or headphone, so if you were to leave in on a charger for burn-in, you sure can do that！