[Mochan]

Quote:

If you go for the 600 Ohm versions you might need an amp that can drive them as well. I am not a believer of the whole 5.1 CMSS3D type of things. To be honest, a 2 channel stereo headphone is all you need. I have experimented with the above listed technologies but I never found them pleasent or improving.
 
Since you live in Holland, as where I live as well! You can audit various headphones as I did. I went to Hobo HIFI in Den Bosch. And then you have RAF where you can listen to some cans as well. I'd go for a Beyer or Audiotechnica. I have also listened to the DT 880 which is analytical, great for gaming! You don't need a lot of bass for pinpointing. Sound needs to be crisp and clear.
 
Good luck!

 
Have to totally disagree with this. The 5.1 CMSS 3D thing makes a huge difference in 3D positional sound. It's not designed to make music sound better, and indeed i turn it off when listening to music. 
 
But for 3D gaming it is a necessity if you are using stereo headphones.  Stereo doesn't even compare. Stereo can give you a good idea of left to right positioning on a flat horizontal plane in front of you, but absolutely cannot put sounds behind you.  CMSS 3D HP can put the sound behind you with remarkable accuracy. Using stereo headphones.
 
Have you tried the difference in 3D games? Believe me it's a huge difference. I saw a lot of threads on this forum about how the AD700's massive soundstage lets them hear exactly where all opponents are and this is bullcrap to be honest (and they say they run it out of a normal soundcard and not use either Dolby HP or CMSS -- again that's BS. Also heard a few people claiming how Dolby HP let them hear the footsteps of their opponents all across the map -- whereas without DHP they can't hear it -- again that's crap neither DHP or CMSS3D create sounds out of nothing) So be careful reading the exaggerations you will find on this forum.
 
 
Personally I still prefer gaming on 5.1 speakers but if have to keep it quiet for the sake of your neighbors, your roommate, or whoever, CMSS 3D + a good headphone is the ticket.
  

 

[Hyperfluxe]

Wait does that mean that I can't use 5.1 on my AD700 for gaming if I don't have a 3D amp? I just want to plug it in my sound card (Xonar DX), will it be 5.1?

 

[Ypoknons]

There is no such thing as a '3D amp' - all these effects are just digital processing. 

 

[lilkoolaidman]

On the HFI-780s I can say that the "S-Logic" is not that impressive, and TBH, they reminded me a lot of Bose, but that's my opinion. For closed I would recommend the Shure SRH-840s, they may not have the biggest sound stage, but with closed you'll almost always get less of a soundstage. As for open, I have the AD-700s and really like them for gaming. With the AD-700s I can hear where an enemy is coming from and the footsteps are very easily heard (MW2 Is what I use them for mostly). However, my only gripe is that the fast bass response on them make the explosions and gunshots less exciting. If you want the best of both worlds you could also look into the Beyerdynamic DT880s (semi-open).

 

[Vergex2]

Well is this just conjecture or have you all spent a lot of time with 3D?

I tried it with Prelude + HD555.

There are many reasons why our preferences could be different, but this is what I perceived. When I used it, the volume did appear to be substantially higher, and the entire mix was more muddled. It killed my music, so I went to try it in gaming (at the time, I played a lot of FPS). To me, no matter which FPS it'd be, footsteps would seem vague, muddled, and the position would be more difficult to discern, and the range of hearing footsteps would also be decreased. A similar effect had its toll on discerning the locations of gunshots.
 
While that was about a year ago, I do believe that was what I perceived.

Perhaps I'm completely wrong, or perhaps we all hear differently, perhaps this is a rare cause of strange confluences, or maybe it was simply the legacy of Creative's crippled drivers (the drivers in my CD did not even work, and Creative is also notorious for crippling their own drivers, presumably for pre-programmed death software based death and subsequent profit). But I definitely found it to be a negative aspect on everything aural it was applied onto.
 
 

 

[n3rdling]

Budget?
Competitive gaming or casual?

 

[Mochan]

Quote:

Wait does that mean that I can't use 5.1 on my AD700 for gaming if I don't have a 3D amp? I just want to plug it in my sound card (Xonar DX), will it be 5.1?

Err... Not exactly sure what a "3D Amp" is. What you need is a X-Fi based soundcard. That and a pair of headphones is all you need. It doesn't even need to be an AD700 frankly. The more important component is the soundcard not the headphones. In fact, I find the Beyer DT770 is better in general for gaming, massive AD700 soundstage be damned. Positional placement is more important than soundstage, and that's a function of the X-Fi card, not the headphones. 
 
The DT770 in turn becomes more fun in my book for gaming, because it has that warmth and low end that brings the game to life in a way the AD700 doesn't quite manage even with EQing. The DT770, despite being closed, is no slouch in soundstage either so it works fine as long as you have CMSS 3D on. 

 

[Mochan]

Quote:

Well is this just conjecture or have you all spent a lot of time with 3D?

I tried it with Prelude + HD555.

There are many reasons why our preferences could be different, but this is what I perceived. When I used it, the volume did appear to be substantially higher, and the entire mix was more muddled. It killed my music, so I went to try it in gaming (at the time, I played a lot of FPS). To me, no matter which FPS it'd be, footsteps would seem vague, muddled, and the position would be more difficult to discern, and the range of hearing footsteps would also be decreased. A similar effect had its toll on discerning the locations of gunshots.
 
While that was about a year ago, I do believe that was what I perceived.

Perhaps I'm completely wrong, or perhaps we all hear differently, perhaps this is a rare cause of strange confluences, or maybe it was simply the legacy of Creative's crippled drivers (the drivers in my CD did not even work, and Creative is also notorious for crippling their own drivers, presumably for pre-programmed death software based death and subsequent profit). But I definitely found it to be a negative aspect on everything aural it was applied onto.
 
 

Not conjecture, this is all from experience and years of actually playing, and unlike you I still have my Auzentech Prelude and I still use it for playing FPS. 
 
However, if it didn't work for you, that is that. Everyone hears differently so you just happened to be one of those for whom it didn't work. It's a shame but I assure you it works for the rest of us. I ask for your pardon if I spoke too strongly, but the X-Fi definitely works incredibly for 3D positional gaming (not so much for music, as I mentioned) for me, and for many others in this thread. And it definitely doesn't do anything at all for sound volume. I am thinking you might have enabled Dolby Digital Live -- that will usually give you an SPL boost without touching any volume dials, because Digital Live gives you a signal straight to your speakers without signal degradation you would get otherwise from using analog RCA. That said... this effect is a huge quality boost, doesn't muddy anything up, in fact it helps clarity, so maybe this isn't what you experienced.
 
I wish you could experience this as well; the alternative, stereo headphones, is literally a flat 2D in comparison. 
 
Fortunately real 5.1 speakers will still work for you, I'm sure. The only thing about 5.1 speakers is that it's harder to pinpoint exact sound if your speaker placement is wonky (mine is) because you have deadspots in the sound field where your speakers aren't forming the field properly due to placement, unlike with CMSS Headphone which always has a perfect surround field around you.
 

BTW -- the Auzentech Prelude has its own drivers, they're not the ones Creative bundles, though of course they are based on them. Not sure why you are barking up the Creative tree here, Auzentech has its own driver package and it's not bloated or crippled by any stretch.
 

 

[toby5678910]

Get the Sony MDR-F1, they one of the best soundstage avaliable, probally only surpassed by the AKG K1000.
 
And you can put them on your head for hours and hours and feel no pain, I think everyone can agree they are the most comfortable headphones ever created.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

 
Quote:

Err... Not exactly sure what a "3D Amp" is. What you need is a X-Fi based soundcard. That and a pair of headphones is all you need. It doesn't even need to be an AD700 frankly. The more important component is the soundcard not the headphones. In fact, I find the Beyer DT770 is better in general for gaming, massive AD700 soundstage be damned. Positional placement is more important than soundstage, and that's a function of the X-Fi card, not the headphones. 
 
The DT770 in turn becomes more fun in my book for gaming, because it has that warmth and low end that brings the game to life in a way the AD700 doesn't quite manage even with EQing. The DT770, despite being closed, is no slouch in soundstage either so it works fine as long as you have CMSS 3D on. 

I wholeheartedly AGREE with you about the DT770s. I may have the bassy DT770 Pro 80's, but they are absolutely THE best headphones I have ever tried when it comes to surround positioning, even more than the AD700s and DT880s. While the soundstage is obviously smaller than the other two, they are the best at letting you know exactly where your enemies are in a 360 degree field. I find that being able to tell front and rear sounds apart is THE most important part of gaming with headphones, and the DT770s do it the best so far from what I have heard.

 

[Thompson]

Ok just to rule out a couple of things;
 
- I DO want CMSS3D or Dolby Headphone. Not sure which one at the moment but following your comments I am leaning more towards CMSS3D now, with for example an AuzenTech Forte soundcard. (Does this also have their own (better?) drivers? Or does only the Prelude have that?). This would be also easier because I can just fit the soundcard in my pc and don't need more stuff on my desk like an amp. The only thing is, how much power can such a soundcard provide? Would it be possible to drive a DT880 250 with it? Or maybe even a 600Ohm?
 
- I am very certain now I do not want 5.1 headsets. I have had it was that crap (Since I currently have one), it just sounds rubish.
 
 
Now there seem to be even more options:

Amp/Soundcard:
1) Astro A40 MixAmp (140 euros)
2) AuzenTech Forte (120 euros)
3) AuzenTech Prelude (170 euros)
4) Different...?
 
Headphones:
1) Audio Technica AD700 (140 euros)
2) Beyer DT770 (210 euros)
3) Beyer DT880 (290 euros)
4) Different...?
 
Reading al the responses (Great to see there are so many people who reply!) I am leaning towards the BT770 with an AuzenTech Prelude. Since I have the feeling the BT770 will sounds great for music or movies to me, because I am not used to any kind of quality headphones or speakers. And a couple of you think it even outperforms the AD700 and BT880 when it comes to games. I actually think it's a + if they do have some bass in games, because it makes you feel you really are "inside the game" and therefore you play even more focussed. The AuzenTech Prelude just sounds like one of the best soundcards for my use, and I think it will remain pretty valuable, might I want to sell it in like a year or 2.
 
Looking forward to reading more replies and opinions!

 

[wadec22]

are you gaming only on the pc? if not, the ability to plug the mixamp into your ps3 and 360 is damn nice too.

 

[Thompson]

Quote:

are you gaming only on the pc? if not, the ability to plug the mixamp into your ps3 and 360 is damn nice too.

Yes only pc gaming for me and FPS only. Playing FPS on a console is absolute no-go xD

 

[Mochan]

Ditto that, can't abide FPS on a console. I feel like I'm driving a tank instead of walking as a person. But whatever works for others. Not gonna criticize their entertainment. Regarding the 250 ohm cans, I can drive my dt770-250 out of my Prelude's out and I'm quite happy with how it sounds. I usually use a small HeadAmp4 though which helps tighten up the sound. The Forte I read is better at driving cans than the Prelude but I have never tried one. I'm quite happy with the Prelude. Just be careful if you decide to go the DT770 route, have to know exactly what model you are getting. I have the 2005 Premium edition 250 ohm which sounds quite different from Mad Lust Envy's 80Ohm(?) pro edition.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Yeah I've read your blogs and from some other user on this forum also. But so many people with so many opinions I still couldn't decide.

So what makes you think that by starting your own thread you're going to get anything other than a ton of contradicting opinions? We're not going to tell you anything that we haven't told anyone else already. And if you don't really know anything about it, then how are you going to know who's giving you good advice and who's not?
 
Look, this doesn't have to be so complicated. Just buy something, and if you don't like it, return it and buy something else until you find something that works. It's not worth the time you'll spend agonizing over it.
 
My advice (as an old Q3 OSP pro from some years back) is to ignore 5.1 headsets, which usually don't work that well, get a good closed pair of cans that can image well, and get a desktop mic. I use a DT770/80 and occasionally whip out the O2, but if you don't have an amp then you're better off with something easier to drive, like the A900. I doubt that it's the best you can get your hands on, but it worked well enough for me. I don't really know the market over the last few years that well, but the Shure SRH840 is well regarded, you may want to look into that.
 
FPS on consoles is a waste of time, but given where I'm coming from, it's not like I was likely to say anything else