[Focker]

Gotta disagree. The additional thumping you hear is a result of the amp's intended SQ, not the additional current. In fact, if you try an amp with selectable gains, and assuming the least gain is more than sufficient for the HP's power/current requirements, you'll hear more treble, not bass.

 
It has selectable gain...all three sound the same - neutral. 
 
The same thing holds true for my Magnepans...it's always the low end that comes alive when I feed them higher current. 

 

[diamondears]

It has selectable gain...all three sound the same - neutral. 

The same thing holds true for my Magnepans...it's always the low end that comes alive when I feed them higher current. 

Exactly my point. If what you're saying is true (high current equals more thump), there would be more thump when you use higher gain.

 

[Focker]

Exactly my point. If what you're saying is true (high current equals more thump), there would be more thump when you use higher gain.

 
That's not what I meant, actually. The gain settings on the Meier amp don't change the "thump". I just have to turn it up more when it's on the lower gain vs the higher gain. At equal volume levels, the thump/low end is the same. What I was referring to was the amp itself. An amp with greater current/reserve, in my experience, drives the Audezes/Maggies more effectively in the low end. I'm certain Dr Meier's amp is ruler flat no matter which gain setting I'm using. 
 
If your experience is different, I'm not disputing that. I'm just passing along what I have found in my 10 years of owning planars. 

 

[diamondears]

That's not what I meant, actually. The gain settings on the Meier amp don't change the "thump". I just have to turn it up more when it's on the lower gain vs the higher gain. At equal volume levels, the thump/low end is the same. What I was referring to was the amp itself. An amp with greater current/reserve, in my experience, drives the Audezes/Maggies more effectively in the low end. I'm certain Dr Meier's amp is ruler flat no matter which gain setting I'm using. 

If your experience is different, I'm not disputing that. I'm just passing along what I have found in my 10 years of owning planars. 

Yes that's my point. You're saying there's greater thump if there's greater reserve. If that's true, selecting a higher gain (which has more reserve) woukd produce more thump at same volume.

Not true at all. Only true if the lower gain isn't enough to allow for dynamic peaks (reserve).

Say the LCD-2.2. At 110dB, which is enough reserve for dynamic peaks, you need 2Vrms and 80mW. That has enough reserve. If you have an amp with these power, it will maximize all the thump the recording intended. If you select a higher gain using SAME amp, it won't result to more thump, in fact it will result, if at all, to more treble, at least to my ears.

If you have an amp with gain that doesn't produce power requirements of the HP, then you shift to higher gain on that same amp, that's the time it will produce more thump.

So what you're hearing is a characteristic of the amp's design to have more thump as a whole and in all cases, not because of the more reserve it has. More reserve over and above your listening levels is just that, a reserve that wouldn't be used at all in any case.

 

[Focker]

Yes that's my point. You're saying there's greater thump if there's greater reserve. If that's true, selecting a higher gain (which has more reserve) woukd produce more thump at same volume.

Not true at all. Only true if the lower gain isn't enough to allow for dynamic peaks (reserve).

Say the LCD-2.2. At 110dB, which is enough reserve for dynamic peaks, you need 2Vrms and 80mW. That has enough reserve. If you have an amp with these power, it will maximize all the thump the recording intended. If you select a higher gain using SAME amp, it won't result to more thump, in fact it will result, if at all, to more treble, at least to my ears.

If you have an amp with gain that doesn't produce power requirements of the HP, then you shift to higher gain on that same amp, that's the time it will produce more thump.

So what you're hearing is a characteristic of the amp's design to have more thump as a whole and in all cases, not because of the more reserve it has. More reserve over and above your listening levels is just that, a reserve that wouldn't be used at all in any case.

 
Okay, this will be my last post on the topic and then you can have the last word (if you wish). Your initial point was that the (now infamous) "thump" was because of the "intended SQ of the amp". I've never noticed any changes in tonality regardless of the headphone or the gain setting used.  I never meant to imply that the GAIN would produce more thump...that was your interpretation of what I said, and I clarified it for you in an earlier post where I indicated it was simply what was on tap, and that most of the current went unused. I get the same thump on the Meier amp regardless of the gain setting. I'm not speaking to WHY the higher currrent amp sounds better, particularly in the low end. I'm simply passing along my own experience that higher current amps tend to allow my planars (Audeze, Magnepan, etc) to come alive in the low end. That's it. 
 
You've now brought up how having reserve (to a point) can be helpful in handling dynamic peaks. Well that makes perfect sense, and it would seem reasonable that that may very well by why the higher current amps allow planars to sound better (to my ears). But again, the "why" of it wasn't what I was getting at...I only know what the end results have been. 

 

[diamondears]

Okay, this will be my last post on the topic and then you can have the last word (if you wish). Your initial point was that the (now infamous) "thump" was because of the "intended SQ of the amp". I've never noticed any changes in tonality regardless of the headphone or the gain setting used.  I never meant to imply that the GAIN would produce more thump...that was your interpretation of what I said, and I clarified it for you in an earlier post where I indicated it was simply what was on tap, and that most of the current went unused. I get the same thump on the Meier amp regardless of the gain setting. I'm not speaking to WHY the higher currrent amp sounds better, particularly in the low end. I'm simply passing along my own experience that higher current amps tend to allow my planars (Audeze, Magnepan, etc) to come alive in the low end. That's it. 

You've now brought up how having reserve (to a point) can be helpful in handling dynamic peaks. Well that makes perfect sense, and it would seem reasonable that that may very well by why the higher current amps allow planars to sound better (to my ears). But again, the "why" of it wasn't what I was getting at...I only know what the end results have been. 

Yes. We agree actually. Just saying it just so happen that the higher current amps you tried the planars with are designed to have more thump. So it's the design that brought you the added thump, not the fact that it has more current. Bec if it's the more current that causes more thump, a higher gain on same amp would bring more thump. That's it.

Most amps are designed to hve more thump, primarily bec most HPs are bright...until Audeze came along.

 

[jodgey4]

A higher gain may not bring more thump, it just increases the voltage gain, thus allowing for a higher peak usually at a cost of higher distortion. Also depends on the amp design, some gain switching is actually a function of output impedance e.g. Vahalla.

 

[sludgeogre]

If the lower gain setting is under-powering the headphones, and if the higher gain setting provides more sufficient power, then the bass will likely become far more defined and sounds that should be thumpy will be like that. That has been my experience when testing different amps for driving capability. My Asgard 2 does a great job of powering the LCD-2, but when I use my McIntosh amp at home, its just a whole different level of realness. The Bifrost helps with that too.

 

[NoxNoctum]

Can I get any comments on Mjolnir/LCD-2 combo? I've got a balanced cable on the way from Audeze and I can't wait to try it out with the Mjo out.
 
I just got the LCD-2 as well and I like the overall tone a lot, but I find that heavy distorted electric guitars lack "bite" with my Lyr. Can the Mjolnir improve things in that area? If not, what amp can? Or maybe I should try tube rolling?
 
Also -- I wish there was a bit more visceral "punch" with the bass.

 

[NoxNoctum]

On a separate issue, I'm sometimes getting this weird ringing in my right earphone. It stops if I lightly push the right side of it. Any ideas? It's only noticeable when I'm not listening to anything or in games but it's kinda irritating. Comes and goes though it seems.

 

[jodgey4]

On a separate issue, I'm sometimes getting this weird ringing in my right earphone. It stops if I lightly push the right side of it. Any ideas? It's only noticeable when I'm not listening to anything or in games but it's kinda irritating. Comes and goes though it seems.

High or low pitched? Check for loose screws on the grill maybe.

 

[diamondears]

Can I get any comments on Mjolnir/LCD-2 combo? I've got a balanced cable on the way from Audeze and I can't wait to try it out with the Mjo out.

I just got the LCD-2 as well and I like the overall tone a lot, but I find that heavy distorted electric guitars lack "bite" with my Lyr. Can the Mjolnir improve things in that area? If not, what amp can? Or maybe I should try tube rolling?

Also -- I wish there was a bit more visceral "punch" with the bass.

You won't get that visceral punch you desire with the LCD-2F...only from LCD-2.2 (pre-Fazor). And from LCD-X (not heard it, just based on research).

 

[monkeysixtysix]

You won't get that visceral punch you desire with the LCD-2F...only from LCD-2.2 (pre-Fazor). And from LCD-X (not heard it, just based on research).

+2. The LCD-X has that visceral punch and then some...

 

[jodgey4]

It's the snappy, thin diaphragm. It's so damn quick! It'll smack your face around just like it should! If mixing engineers mixed on X's, I'm sure all kick drums would come out muddy on most other speakers

.

 

[Zoom25]

Okay, I checked Audeze's site for LCD-2 and LCD-X. Their sensitivity were listed at 101dB/mW and 103dB/mW, respectively. When I had the LCD-2.2, I don't remember the sensitivity being that high. Is the new LCD-2 and LCD-X reasonably driveable out of iPad and iPhone's? (Yes, I did notice the increase in impedance as well)