[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Different cables can sound...different. Different isn't always better, or even measurable.
Can we move on

 
How come you get the last say?
 
fixed...
 
Cables all sound the same.
Can we move on 

 

[grokit]

I like my version better but whatever floats your boat :rolleyes: !

 

[wink]

Cables can't sound like anything as they are not transducers. They can only affect what the transducer recieves and then reproduces.
 
Does that float your boat? Do you wish to recalibrate the Plimsoll line?

 

[grokit]

Different cables can affect sound...differently. Different isn't always better, or even measurable.
Can we move on

edited for semantics to please wink

:rolleyes:

 

[wink]

Thank you......   

 

[brat]

Talking about the placebo effect of cables shows lack of experience with good cables (good doesn't mean expensive necessarily)  or lack of hearing/concentration ability. The first is the more common reason. Subtle changes are important for some people and indistinquishable by others. I don't want to insult anybody! Some people can hear changes made by connectors, I'm not that good but I respect their believes because denial unsupported by knowledge is stupid.
Cable parameters are measurable and do influence the signal. It's proven decades ago. http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/spkrcabl.pdf . So before talking about placebo make your own listening tests and remember what is insignificant to you may be a revelation to others. Be more tolerant

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

Talking about the placebo effect of cables shows lack of experience with good cables (good doesn't mean expensive necessarily)  or lack of hearing/concentration ability. The first is the more common reason. Subtle changes are important for some people and indistinquishable by others. I don't want to insult anybody! Some people can hear changes made by connectors, I'm not that good but I respect their believes because denial unsupported by knowledge is stupid.
Cable parameters are measurable and do influence the signal. It's proven decades ago. http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/spkrcabl.pdf . So before talking about placebo make your own listening tests and remember what is insignificant to you may be a revelation to others. Be more tolerant

A lot of subjective (personal opinions) here. As The Monkey stated, some cannot separate from fact and opinion. Let's continue on please? There's plenty of discussion like this in the Science Forum.

 

[Matt head 777]

Quote:

 
Some of us see that as something other than a good thing.  I have no problem with people thinking they make a difference.  If that's what floats your boat, then go for it.  But I am rather tired of hearing (lots of the same) people trumpet the night and day difference cables make without so much as a nod to the fact that it is entirely possible the placebo effect is at work and that it is curious how little susbtantiation there is for such claims.  This is an old argument and it generally goes something like this:
"I hear a difference, therefore there is definitely a difference and it is the cable."
"Well, ok, what about the placebo effect or some measurements, could be interesting."
"Lalalalala.  I know what I hear that's enough for me."
I don't care which way one comes out in this debate.  But the lack of critical thinking is astonishing and its rapid decrease likely correlates well with the "tenfold" increase in cable acceptance.

I see your point and I agree. People need to apply more critical, objective thinking in reviews of audio gear, being wary of making definitive statements.

 

[drez]

In my experience significantly different cables sound noticably different, at least with the LCD-2, and I HAVE heard cables that effect enough of a change or coloration to be larger than the difference between a Rev.1 and Rev.2 LCD-2 (some 8 wire cables I have tried were VERY coloured.)  Differences between cables of similar construction and wire gauge were less obvious.  4 wire cables with litz, rectangular or less than skin depth round conductors should all be very similar in resistivity across the frequency spectrum and relatively free of timing distortions.  According to my calculations the skin depth of a 20 kHz signal in copper will be 0.46mm, unless I am off by several orders of magnitude.  Either way I would not pay many hundreds of dollars for a coloured headphone cable which weighs more than it has to.

 

[Matt head 777]

Really some tech info is needed to settle this debate. I spoke with an audio engineering guru briefly about cables connected to an amplifier, their are apparently cases were a more expensive cable can affect an amplifier, cause the amplifier to be upset. But vaguely I recall that materials like copper vs silver don't matter. It probably has more to do with the thickness and length of the cable...
 
Exotic cables may make it sound worse, has anyone on head-fi ever said that? Placebo has a bias towards it must be sound better.

 

[drez]

Quote:

Really some tech info is needed to settle this debate. I spoke with an audio engineering guru briefly about cables connected to an amplifier, their are apparently cases were a more expensive cable can affect an amplifier, cause the amplifier to be upset. But vaguely I recall that materials like copper vs silver don't matter. It probably has more to do with the thickness and length of the cable...
 
Exotic cables may make it sound worse, has anyone on head-fi ever said that? Placebo has a bias towards it must be sound better.

 
Yes me! 

  I have heard an 8 wire cables sound more coloured than 4 wire equivalents.  More is not always better (esp cable length), and cables do not always follow common sense (even though they have to obey the laws of physics).  By this I am of course not saying that cables can do miracles - but rather just the opposite, and that common sense can often replace a lack of insight, and superficial insight replace a lack of deeper insight.

 

[Matt head 777]

Quote:

 
Yes me! 

  I have heard an 8 wire cables sound more coloured than 4 wire equivalents.  More is not always better (esp cable length), and cables do not always follow common sense (even though they have to obey the laws of physics).  By this I am of course not saying that cables can do miracles - but rather just the opposite, and that common sense can often replace a lack of insight, and superficial insight replace a lack of deeper insight.

well there's one lol.
 
I'm trying to look into this cable discussion a bit deeper without contacting the audio genius I recall him talking about resonances I think and how even the outer insulation of the wire can have an effect! Here's an article I must admit I don't know much about it but I think it's a start.http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/audio-faqs/are-cable-resonances-real

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

 Be more tolerant

 
If this is addressed to me, it is misplaced.  I am tolerant of just about every reasonable belief in this hobby.  Maybe cables make a difference, maybe they don't.  One thing we all know (or should know) is that it is far from settled. I have absolutely no tolerance for the lack of critical thinking demonstrated here (and getting worse).  
 
Every now and then I come back here to re-engage, thinking I will enjoy it.
 
I don't.

 

[drez]

Quote:

 
If this is addressed to me, it is misplaced.  I am tolerant of just about every reasonable belief in this hobby.  Maybe cables make a difference, maybe they don't.  One thing we all know (or should know) is that it is far from settled. I have absolutely no tolerance for the lack of critical thinking demonstrated here (and getting worse).  
 
Every now and then I come back here to re-engage, thinking I will enjoy it.
 
I don't.

 
What do you expect seriously lol.  Everyone to think the same way you do?  Seriously lol?
 
OK I'm sorry from now on we only offer scientifically/logically veritable opinion/statements 

  Oh, wait, this is not the sound science forum so we really don't have to!

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

 
What do you expect seriously lol.  Everyone to think the same way you do?  Seriously lol?
 
OK I'm sorry from now on we only offer scientifically/logically veritable opinion/statements 

  Oh, wait, this is not the sound science forum so we really don't have to!

 
 
A spectacular example of missing and simultaneously proving my point.