[ericp10]

Quote:

I hate people who claim intelligence and yet are not smart enough to see that they aren't being objective.
 
Graphs aside, the evidence is that they are old enough to be past flavor of the month and there are still no real objections against the CKS1000 sound quality. They seem to be good just maybe not everyone's signature but then again they are a niche product and doesn't claim to be general purpose.
 
The CKM1000 at the same stage was getting panned as a skip this one/overpriced underachiever. It was never flavor of the month and rightly so. 
 
Why didn't Inks hate the RE-400 because it was a flavor of the month as well? He said he hates flavor of the months. Obvious it is not FOTM but more the sound signature. Obviously the ones with his preferred signature are good phones otherwise they are not. Just by looking at the graph of course.
 
My question is not just when the arrogance will end but when will the prejudice end?
 

     FREQ. RESPS.
 

 
 

 

[Exci]

Re
I claim knowledge of graphs enough to have a good idea of what something sounds like based on it. Some have a hard time accepting that but it took experience/knowledge to get there.

Regardless of release date its a FOTM.

RE400 blow these away not because of their signature but because of performance. I think the RE400 is a solid performer but not a leader in its price range at all, a bit dull in the high treble. These are v-shaped, if one wants v-shaped I hope the reader is smart enough to go for the XBA3/30 instead or MH1.

No offence, but it is a little of a stretch to know how these sound based on the FR graph. You know the sound signature, but I can't even imagine how you can judge crucial aspects like driver speed, decay, coherence, imaging, soundstage and seperation by a simple fr graph.

You may be right about the cks1000, you may be wrong; I personally don't care. Just mind you that the xba30 for example is a BA IEM, and that you cannot simply say this is crap because it has a v-shaped soundsig..

 

[Inks]

I can't be exact as it will take actual listening to be so, but that response isn't even close to decent. FR just doesn't tell me a signature, I know enough to have a good estimate whether its honky, veiled, clear, etc. The problem is not that it's v-shaped, its a uncontrolled mess of resonants, other aspects are likely affected by this as the tuning is clearly poor.

 

[waynes world]

Well, I really think that you should listen to them before stating such strong opinions about them.
 
At any rate, I respect my buddies who actually own and love their CSK1000's (and like them more than the xba3's for that matter), so I have no doubt that they won't sound anything like what your mystery graph represents. When I get them, if they truly are horrendous as you imagine them to be, I'll let you know.

 

[Inks]

It's from seeko.co.kr

I'm not going to waste my time with these. I know enough, its just hard to understand for those with limited knowledge on graphs,most are laymen. Nothing wrong with that, I've made my case, whether one decides to use money on these have been warned, opposition is inevitable.

I can't even give a benefit of doubt, the data is just horrid...

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

Well, I really think that you should listen to them before stating such strong opinions about them.
 
At any rate, I respect my buddies who actually own and love their CSK1000's (and like them more than the xba3's for that matter), so I have no doubt that they won't sound anything like what your mystery graph represents. When I get them, if they truly are horrendous as you imagine them to be, I'll let you know.

The funny thing is that I've seen that same guy condemn other people for making comments on IEMs that they have never heard. It's a whole new era of trolling in here, I tell you. Oh well. Can't wait to read your impressions once you hear them waynes world.

 

[jant71]

"The frequency response" is both stodgy and limiting cause any phone should have a dynamic frequency response. You get what you can out of a headphone/earphone. Even inks says add impedance here or adjust there with depth/tips etc. but the phone he doesn't want to like for whatever reason has a totally rigid F.R.
 
The F.R. of the CKS1000 is not good or bad. Maybe you want to pair it with a Hisound Rocoo player and are combining the sound signatures to get the end result you want. The F.R. is not unchanging. What tips you use, maybe you take the filters out of the tube, the source/rig pairing, what depth/seal you use, etc. all add up to(once you are done) the true frequency response.
 
If I add my 75 ohm adapter to a certain set-up configuration with the XBA-40 it is pretty neutral and somewhat ER4-ish with more decay. That F.R. isn't gonna match up with the straight XBA-40 graph. So, sorry to tell you, the usual graph means little to me. It is a starting point of reference that is only part of the total recipe. It is what you choose to do with it and how it sounds at the end of your chain that is the more accurate measurement.  

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

"The frequency response" is both stodgy and limiting cause any phone should have a dynamic frequency response. You get what you can out of a headphone/earphone. Even inks says add impedance here or adjust there with depth/tips etc. but the phone he doesn't want to like for whatever reason has a totally rigid F.R.
 
The F.R. of the CKS1000 is not good or bad. Maybe you want to pair it with a Hisound Rocoo player and are combining the sound signatures to get the end result you want. The F.R. is not unchanging. What tips you use, maybe you take the filters out of the tube, the source/rig pairing, what depth/seal you use, etc. all add up to(once you are done) the true frequency response.
 
If I add my 75 ohm adapter to a certain set-up configuration with the XBA-40 it is pretty neutral and somewhat ER4-ish with more decay. That F.R. isn't gonna match up with the straight XBA-40 graph. So, sorry to tell you, the usual graph means little to me. It is a starting point of reference that is only part of the total recipe. It is what you choose to do with it and how it sounds at the end of your chain that is the more accurate measurement.  

Thank you jant71. Very well stated.

 

[jant71]

Well it is in the true spirit of Head-fi to present all kinds of data(measurements, experiences, opinions, etc.) and let people plug it into their own equation. 

 

[Inks]

Quote:

"The frequency response" is both stodgy and limiting cause any phone should have a dynamic frequency response. You get what you can out of a headphone/earphone. Even inks says add impedance here or adjust there with depth/tips etc. but the phone he doesn't want to like for whatever reason has a totally rigid F.R.
 
The F.R. of the CKS1000 is not good or bad. Maybe you want to pair it with a Hisound Rocoo player and are combining the sound signatures to get the end result you want. The F.R. is not unchanging. What tips you use, maybe you take the filters out of the tube, the source/rig pairing, what depth/seal you use, etc. all add up to(once you are done) the true frequency response.
 
If I add my 75 ohm adapter to a certain set-up configuration with the XBA-40 it is pretty neutral and somewhat ER4-ish with more decay. That F.R. isn't gonna match up with the straight XBA-40 graph. So, sorry to tell you, the usual graph means little to me. It is a starting point of reference that is only part of the total recipe. It is what you choose to do with it and how it sounds at the end of your chain that is the more accurate measurement.  

LOL, I don't want to like the CKS1000? What's there to like...It's a mess of a response, not even just bad, it's horrid. Shallow insertion, vertically mounted IEMs such as these are of low acoustic impedance and linear impedance phase, so good luck changing much with tips or impedance. The guys who did that measurement take into account a reference plane and shallow insertion, so that's off the window. Can't compare that with what goes on with the XBA40, goes to show you how much you know of certain acoustic aspects. XBA40 sounds bad with that much impedance, talk about severe harshness....just sounds more neutral to you cause it decreases bass. 
 
 

I don't give a monkey's behind about assessing a FR is what you don't seem to get. I come from the point of view of what does the earphone sound like to MY ears. Do I like the sound or not? Why do I or why don't I like it? You can put graphs up until you're blue in the face, but if it's not someone's sound signature they won't like it. And you don't know if it's your sound signature until you hear it. I remember a few of you so-called graph and chart expects telling me base on your findings that I wouldn't like W4 because it was a neutral leaning IEM and the "charts" clearly showed I couldn't like that sound base on other IEMs I heard and enjoyed. Well, the W4 ended up being one of my favorite universals, and an IEM I held onto probably longer than any other earphone I've owned. 

I'm not an AT fanboy by any stretch of the imagination. I have disliked more of their products than liked them. Some I thought were okay (the CKM500 for example), but I was never really blown away. But starting with the CKN50, AT started impressing me. Then I bought the CKS1000 from a head-fier who didn't care for it too much sound signature-wise, but he let me listen to it and hold onto it for a few weeks to decide if it was for me. I burned that IEM in and it revealed itself to be one of the most detailed, layered and clear dynamic universal IEMs I've heard. The bass is brilliantly tight and not bloated; the treble is just right and doesn't sound like pieces of sharp glass being twisted into my eardrums; the mids are wonderfully luscious and detailed; and it has an expansive soundstage. 

And I think what the graphs fail to take into account is the unique dual chamber technology these earphones use to help give music a more detailed sound in mids without bleed in from the bass. There is nothing recessed in the sound as a whole - as say there is with the JVC FX-700 (as I remember you liking quite a bit, and I liked too, but the mids were quite recessed). It doesn't matter how many graphs you put up on head-fi, you do yourself and those who may be interested in the product a disservice if you haven't listened to the product yourself. Even then, it's just the listener's opinion, but at least there is a kernel of credibility. If it doesn't matter whether you heard it or not, then we all can just look at a product and say, "Hmmm? It has a streak of orange color on it, so it can't sound good!" Or we could say, "I like an all silver flat cord, so this must be the best sounding IEM ever!!" 

I have nothing further to say on this other than please stop trolling.

You can't understand my stance, that's my point. W4 isn't that neutral, specially in how most people use it. LOL, the graph is the RESULT of the driver's ouput,which involves the dual chamber. Instead of buying into gimmicks a manufacturer may use, understand that when a response is set up the way it is, masking is inevitable and the detail heard is just a result of that as it confines certain information. That last remark is one of the worst straw-man arguments I have heard...

 

[ericp10]

Prayers for the citizens and marathon runners in Boston. His words matter even less right now (as if that was possible). I'm just saying.

 

[waynes world]

Quote:

Prayers for the citizens and marathon runners in Boston. His words matter even less right now (as if that was possible). I'm just saying.

 
Yes. Horrifying. Prayers for them indeed.

 

[waynes world]

Quote:

LOL, I don't want to like the CKS1000? What's there to like...It's a mess of a response, not even just bad, it's horrid. Shallow insertion, vertically mounted IEMs such as these are of low acoustic impedance and linear impedance phase, so good luck changing much with tips or impedance. The guys who did that measurement take into account a reference plane and shallow insertion, so that's off the window. Can't compare that with what goes on with the XBA40, goes to show you how much you know of certain acoustic aspects. XBA40 sounds bad with that much impedance, talk about severe harshness....just sounds more neutral to you cause it decreases bass. 

 
I just got mine from a fellow head-fier, and there are a few hours on them already so they are not "out of the box". Although I am not an expert like you, looking at that graph of yours, I would anticipate hearing an overbearing/boomy bass, a recessed midrange, and a spikey/resonant treble. Is that how you would read it as well?
 
If so, then all I can say is that your graph is way off - they don't sound like that at all.

 

[Inks]

Of course you don't, give it time. FYI, It was also verified with LTD version. 

 

[waynes world]

Quote:

Of course you don't, give it time. FYI, It was also verified with LTD version. 

 
Still listening. Still immensely enjoying. I'm afraid that I might never be able to fully appreciate how utterly horrible these are!

 
I know I know... give it time. Gladly!