The Astell & Kern AK120
Aug 8, 2013 at 10:14 PM Post #3,106 of 7,071
Oh, thats fine then, thanks so much for your help.
Knowing you like classical music have you tried any of HDTT's DSD recordings yet? There are not many at the moment but I know that there is one coming out soon, Here is what he told me in an email..

"FYI I'm going to release a multi-channel recording (our first) in the near future it was recorded earlier this year it's a Bruckner Mass it has a full chorus and it's a killer recording
even the 2- channel mix down is spectacular. I'm working on the final mix now so hopefully within a month it will be released."
 
Aug 9, 2013 at 1:22 AM Post #3,107 of 7,071
Oh, thats fine then, thanks so much for your help.
Knowing you like classical music have you tried any of HDTT's DSD recordings yet? There are not many at the moment but I know that there is one coming out soon, Here is what he told me in an email..

"FYI I'm going to release a multi-channel recording (our first) in the near future it was recorded earlier this year it's a Bruckner Mass it has a full chorus and it's a killer recording
even the 2- channel mix down is spectacular. I'm working on the final mix now so hopefully within a month it will be released."


I wasn't aware of this site until this morning when you PM'ed. I will try and download all the albums this weekend if time allows. I will sure be on the look out for the new release.

I still need to get my 5 free albums from Blue Coast.....
 
Aug 9, 2013 at 5:23 PM Post #3,108 of 7,071
Gavin, look forward to your experience, Metrum is indeed something special, i am still shaking my head in disbelief, i bought Audiophilleo with pure power and this combo pushes my soul on the edge. I was starring stupidly at my Naim CD player because no matter all goodies and tricks voices never sonded so real like on Metrum. Something really special here.

I can only assume Hex will be a revelation but for the time being i am damn happy about all my purchases.

Speaking of Ak 120 i am curious to hear your experience after Vinnie mod, love so much my Rwak and 1plus2 and i am a believer in Vinnie mods. So pls tell how it works when you have it.
 
Aug 10, 2013 at 5:15 AM Post #3,109 of 7,071
Quote:
...Speaking of Ak 120 i am curious to hear your experience after Vinnie mod, love so much my Rwak and 1plus2 and i am a believer in Vinnie mods. So pls tell how it works when you have it.

 
I also have a RWAK100 with some Westone ES3X, and I look for upgrading my IEMs.  So, I need advices...
 
Could you please tell me why you did chose 1plus2 versus other IEM (fitear 334, ...) , and if they can beat some high-end CUSTOM IEM (like JH 13 Feq.Phase that I am considering).  I will be VERY interested to hear your thought oh this
 
Also, what cable do you have ? I heard that several type of cables can be purchased with the 1plus2 
 
thanks in advance
 
Aug 10, 2013 at 5:33 AM Post #3,110 of 7,071
Quote:
Just placed an order today for this one!

Nearly went for the 901 but the DSD sealed it for me, should be here in 2-3 weeks as its coming from the States.
I have Etymotic ER4S's. FAD Heaven S, FAD Piano Forte IX , Beyerdynamic T5P and DT1350's to use with this though the T5P's and the IX's will be used mainly in conjunction with my ASP TU-05 tube amp and the AK120 so that will leave the other three for use directly out of the DAP. Does anyone have any experience with these headphones and this DAP?

Ian, did you go all the way to the RWAK120-S with the "real" line-out ?  A perfect match for our beloved TU-05 isn't it ? 
 
Aug 10, 2013 at 5:45 AM Post #3,111 of 7,071
Quote:
Gavin, look forward to your experience, Metrum is indeed something special, i am still shaking my head in disbelief, i bought Audiophilleo with pure power and this combo pushes my soul on the edge.

 Metrum.... I am VERY interested in this setup if it is really THAT good !  I was indeed about to get a Total-dac, but this may save me a lot of money :) and ... in addition offer some transportability that the total dac don't.
 
but... does this Octave DAC really offer a silent background ? I HATE HISS and other anoying background noise in my music !! 
 
Question: WHY do you use Audiophileo ?  Why with pure power ?  Does those additional components really bringing something to the Metrum" used alone alone ? 
 
Aug 10, 2013 at 5:52 AM Post #3,112 of 7,071
Must admit I did not. I just can't bring myself to spend that much extra at this point. I may down the road think about the modification but I want to see what people think first. If it were a couple of hundred bucks I may have but it is considerably more than that (and I can imagine with all the work involved and the upgraded chips the cost is justified on Vinnies part) and I would rather hear the "virgin" one first before committing a not insubstantial sum.

Talking with Gavin I think I will get good results with adjusting the volume pot to certain levels.
Very excited to be getting this one. I had really intended to get the 901 but a review in a British HiFi magainze who's thoughts I have learned to value greatly and the fact of having DSD capability that is proving to be a rather substantial benefit swung me in the end.. That and the fact that when my Girlfriend from Vienna was visiting last month she fell in love with the sound of my 801 so that will find a good home ( we have similar tastes in early music so she will also inherit my SD card collection of that with the player!

Now I have to get some micro SD cards!
 
Aug 10, 2013 at 5:54 AM Post #3,113 of 7,071
From RWA's web site .....
 
"Installing 1000uF super-low ESR capacitor across the battery rail for increased dynamics and noise filtering".
 
I am guessing this constitutes a big chunk of that "S". I am surprised RWA would even disclose this info. I am pretty sure those who are receiving the RWAK-120S will be wowed by, as in Vinnie's words "a grand slam".
 
If this is the first time Vinnie uses these caps in RWA's mods, boys and girls, forget about other daps and just get the RWAK-120S.
 
Aug 10, 2013 at 5:54 AM Post #3,114 of 7,071
Quote:
 
I also have a RWAK100 with some Westone ES3X, and I look for upgrading my IEMs.  So, I need advices...
 
Could you please tell me why you did chose 1plus2 versus other IEM (fitear 334, ...) , and if they can beat some high-end CUSTOM IEM (like JH 13 Feq.Phase that I am considering).  I will be VERY interested to hear your thought oh this
 
Also, what cable do you have ? I heard that several type of cables can be purchased with the 1plus2 
 
thanks in advance

 
bmichels have you bothered to read through the 1Plus2 thread? tupac did a review on the IEMs and he did rank the 1Plus2 noticeably higher than his JH IEMs including the 13 FP to my knowledge. There are also members who posted preferring the 1Plus2 to the 334s by a decent margin and others who've sold their 334s once acquiring the 1Plus2. Preference also does play a roll in all of this.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/623514/tralucent-audio-1plus2-iem-appreciation-impressions-thread/2610#post_9486653
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/623514/tralucent-audio-1plus2-iem-appreciation-impressions-thread/2820#post_9537719
 
Aug 10, 2013 at 7:19 AM Post #3,115 of 7,071
Quote:
It seems to me that the whole 'Astell & Kern' thing looks rather like a cynical exercise in marketing the perception of uber-high-end, when, in reality, the actual product electronics may be somewhere between upper-mid and high end. But push the perception of uber-high-end, with slick marketing and a pretentious-sounding name and there will always be some who will swallow that kool-aid every time. Apple have been doing it for years with the iPhone, making a 'nice' product with 'nice' engineering, but charging outrageous prices and spending vast sums of money on marketing, so that all the kool-aid drinkers believe they 'simply must' have each iteration of the device and that they'll be the envy of all their friends, and that it 'must be' better than less-glamourous competing devices. And what happened to the iPhone? The wheels have started to wobble on that particular kool-aid wagon, as competitors such as Samsung GS2/3/4 and HTC One are offering at least equal performance, and, in some aspects, superior performance, and all at a significantly lower price.
 
I'm confident that the AK120 is probably 'quite a good product', and I do like the smaller form factor than the DX100 and HM-901, but whilst (in terms of pricing) some of the kool-aid drinkers may be fooled, it doesn't fool me. I personally view this pricing structure as a cynical exercise in influencing the marketplace's perception of the performance of the 'Astell & Kern' branded products. IMO, €1299 euros is greedy. Just because it contains 2 DACs and has a €1299 euro price tag does not make me automatically believe it is worth €1299 euros in terms of componentry, engineering, and performance.
 
So shocked was I by the pricing of the AK120, that the following imaginary scenario ran through my mind, of a fictitious board meeting (let me stress that these words are from my imagination, not from actual reality anywhere else on planet earth):
 
 
"What is the latest uber-high-end product in the DAP marketplace?"
"The HM-901"
"OK, what is the main USP of the HM-901?"
"Dual DAC implementation. Oh, and oversized manual volume control wheel"
"OK, and what other features are becoming more desirable in high-end DAPs at the moment"
"Dual SD/MicroSD card slots"
"OK, so if the existing AK100 design were to be modified so as to include 2 DACs, could it be marketed heavily so as to elicit close to $1500 bucks?; By including 2 DACs, could people be made to perceive it as superior to the HM-901, if it's made to look shiny and slick enough? If the HDP-R10s DSD playback was thrown in for good measure, people would probably throw their cash at it, no matter how much mark-up was demanded, wouldn't they..?"
 
 
I apologise for my cynicism but it's only in response to what I perceive to be exceptionally cynical pricing.
 
 
If the AK120 truly sounds better than the DX100 (and I don't mean just one or two enthusiastic fans; I mean a broad, time-matured, consensus of opinion), then I'll eat my hat. Slick appearance is nice but it counts for very little if the SQ may (perhaps - it remains to be seen) not match something costing $500 bucks less. It also counts for very little if the device has a relatively high output impedance making it struggle to drive low-impedance multi-BA CIEMs to a standard one should rightly expect of a €1299 euro DAP, and, after all, many well-heeled DAP-buyers will commonly use low-impedance multi-BA CIEMs whilst out and about. The whole AK100 after-market mod debacle is a case in point, and instead of admitting the issue, it appears iRiver chose a less friendly approach.
 
 
For the record, I would not be giving the AK120 a hard time if it was't being marketed at such an outrageous price. This is not anything to do with whether I can afford it or not. It is purely and simply to do with the fact that I view the price tag as cynical and greedy, having seemingly insufficient substance to justify it.
 
If the AK120 was marketed at, say, $950, many people (of those fortunate enough to be able to afford it) would be keen to give it a try. iRiver and their agents, retailers etc. would still have a healthy mark-up at that price-point.
 
 
I also feel the Tera player is overpriced, BTW, even though it's made by more costly German labour and may well sound wonderful. The same goes for some of the after-market speciality cable vendors (some of whom are some of the very worst offenders, in terms of mark-up).
 
iRiver are therefore, not the only vendors charging (in my view) over the odds, but that still doesn't justify the practice.
 
 
Thank goodness for the likes of Fiio, who keep things real by seeking to provide customers with features the desire, and at a very fair price. They may not be perfect, but their way of doing business with their customers is an object lesson for many other vendors in the DAP marketplace.
 
.

 
Aug 10, 2013 at 8:35 AM Post #3,116 of 7,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython 

It seems to me that the whole 'Astell & Kern' thing looks rather like a cynical exercise in marketing the perception of uber-high-end, when, in reality, the actual product electronics may be somewhere between upper-mid and high end. But push the perception of uber-high-end, with slick marketing and a pretentious-sounding name and there will always be some who will swallow that kool-aid every time. Apple have been doing it for years with the iPhone, making a 'nice' product with 'nice' engineering, but charging outrageous prices and spending vast sums of money on marketing, so that all the kool-aid drinkers believe they 'simply must' have each iteration of the device and that they'll be the envy of all their friends, and that it 'must be' better than less-glamourous competing devices. And what happened to the iPhone? The wheels have started to wobble on that particular kool-aid wagon, as competitors such as Samsung GS2/3/4 and HTC One are offering at least equal performance, and, in some aspects, superior performance, and all at a significantly lower price.
 
I'm confident that the AK120 is probably 'quite a good product', and I do like the smaller form factor than the DX100 and HM-901, but whilst (in terms of pricing) some of the kool-aid drinkers may be fooled, it doesn't fool me. I personally view this pricing structure as a cynical exercise in influencing the marketplace's perception of the performance of the 'Astell & Kern' branded products. IMO, €1299 euros is greedy. Just because it contains 2 DACs and has a €1299 euro price tag does not make me automatically believe it is worth €1299 euros in terms of componentry, engineering, and performance.
 
So shocked was I by the pricing of the AK120, that the following imaginary scenario ran through my mind, of a fictitiousboard meeting (let me stress that these words are from my imaginationnot from actual reality anywhere else on planet earth):
 
 
"What is the latest uber-high-end product in the DAP marketplace?"
"The HM-901"
"OK, what is the main USP of the HM-901?"
"Dual DAC implementation. Oh, and oversized manual volume control wheel"
"OK, and what other features are becoming more desirable in high-end DAPs at the moment"
"Dual SD/MicroSD card slots"
"OK, so if the existing AK100 design were to be modified so as to include 2 DACs, could it be marketed heavily so as to elicit close to $1500 bucks?; By including 2 DACs, could people be made to perceive it as superior to the HM-901, if it's made to look shiny and slick enough? If the HDP-R10s DSD playback was thrown in for good measure, people would probably throw their cash at it, no matter how much mark-up was demanded, wouldn't they..?"
 
 
I apologise for my cynicism but it's only in response to what I perceive to be exceptionally cynical pricing.
 
 
If the AK120 truly sounds better than the DX100 (and I don't mean just one or two enthusiastic fans; I mean a broad, time-matured, consensus of opinion), then I'll eat my hat. Slick appearance is nice but it counts for very little if the SQ may (perhaps - it remains to be seen) not match something costing $500 bucks less. It also counts for very little if the device has a relatively high output impedance making it struggle to drive low-impedance multi-BA CIEMs to a standard one should rightly expect of a €1299 euro DAP, and, after all, many well-heeled DAP-buyers will commonly use low-impedance multi-BA CIEMs whilst out and about. The whole AK100 after-market mod debacle is a case in point, and instead of admitting the issue, it appears iRiver chose a less friendly approach.
 
 
For the record, I would not be giving the AK120 a hard time if it was't being marketed at such an outrageous price. This isnot anything to do with whether I can afford it or not. It is purely and simply to do with the fact that I view the price tag as cynical and greedy, having seemingly insufficient substance to justify it.
 
If the AK120 was marketed at, say, $950, many people (of those fortunate enough to be able to afford it) would be keen to give it a try. iRiver and their agents, retailers etc. would still have a healthy mark-up at that price-point.
 
 
I also feel the Tera player is overpriced, BTW, even though it's made by more costly German labour and may well sound wonderful. The same goes for some of the after-market speciality cable vendors (some of whom are some of the very worst offenders, in terms of mark-up).
 
iRiver are therefore, not the only vendors charging (in my view) over the odds, but that still doesn't justify the practice.
 
 
Thank goodness for the likes of Fiio, who keep things real by seeking to provide customers with features the desire, and at a very fair price. They may not be perfect, but their way of doing business with their customers is an object lesson for many other vendors in the DAP marketplace.

 
Thanks for reposting this.  I have one question.  I wonder if Mython had ever HEARD the AK120, or if he/she was just upset about the price.
 
Aug 10, 2013 at 10:35 AM Post #3,117 of 7,071
Quote:
 
I also have a RWAK100 with some Westone ES3X, and I look for upgrading my IEMs.  So, I need advices...
 
Could you please tell me why you did chose 1plus2 versus other IEM (fitear 334, ...) , and if they can beat some high-end CUSTOM IEM (like JH 13 Feq.Phase that I am considering).  I will be VERY interested to hear your thought oh this
 
Also, what cable do you have ? I heard that several type of cables can be purchased with the 1plus2 
 
thanks in advance

What's important is that it competes with any of them. The rest is personal.
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM Post #3,118 of 7,071
Quote:
What's important is that it competes with any of them. The rest is personal.

 
Thanks for saying that!!  I'm certainly going to try the 1plus2's and a couple of others because of the consistent positives i'm reading here.  You can get a good sense of what must be pretty good if lots of experienced audiophiles make positive comments, but some of us may be underestimating the "personal" part of this in the comparisons that say "X" is clearly better than "Y". 
 
For example, the fit issue is critical with the Sennheiser ie800.  The stock tips are not very good, but i got lucky with a perfect fit with the "M" tip.  Sonically, they sound very different without a perfect seal, and they are NOT meant to be worn deep.  I think that may be why some people who's ears i greatly respect say, "how can you listen to those things??" while others I respect say....."wow they're awesome, I need to get myself a pair of those."   On top of that, I haven't been tested recently, but I personally likely have some hearing rolloff in high frequencies.  This may make me less vulnerable to what others have described as accentuated highs.   As i've mentioned previously, I'm also using the AK120 user EQ to balance.  I can get to a pretty decent spot.
 
Finally, I think there is a natural tendency for all of us to love the equipment we currently own and are currently using.   It's probably why we settled on it.
 
Just a plug to LISTEN and find what you enjoy, instead of taking everybody else's word for what is the absolute best.
 
Aug 11, 2013 at 9:24 PM Post #3,119 of 7,071
I tried the AK120 at the California Audio Show, used my Audio Technica ATH-A900X headphones with it, the audio quality of Pink Floyd on the AK120 was the best I've ever listen to.
The interface seem to be easy to use and I really liked the graphics for the volume control.
 

 
Aug 11, 2013 at 9:59 PM Post #3,120 of 7,071
I thought I would post this here as well as the SE846 thread since it is about how these IEMs pair with the AK120.
 
[size=9.0pt]Got the SE846 late last week. This is not a review but a quick observation. My main player has been the AK120 and with this pairing I was not happy with the sound. There was extra bass but I thought that was part of the ES846 sound. What really seemed off is that the vocals were harsh in most cases. The vocals were the reason on many songs I would turn the volume down. Since the AK120 has output impedance of 3.3 ohms I thought this could be the source of the issue and I think I was right. I switched to my older RWAK100 which has OI < 1 ohm and the sound is much more balanced. The bass is still strong but not too exaggerated and best of all the vocals are normal again.[/size]
 
[size=9.0pt]So I think the low impedance of the SE846 is going to make one's choice of sources somewhat limited (I have not had issues with any other IEMs straight out of the AK120 such as the WR4 or IE800).[/size]
 
[size=9.0pt]Note: I tried the SE846 on the AK120 via ALO MKIII amp and it was better than straight out of the AK120 but not as good as the RWAk100.[/size]
 
[size=9.0pt]I might have to sell them or get the RWA mod for the AK120.[/size]
 

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