The Apple diyMod: My Take on the Famous iMod [56k killer] Featuring 3G, 4G, 5G and nano 1G!
Dec 3, 2008 at 8:02 PM Post #1,621 of 3,220
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbarry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
SQ wise, I don't hear that much of a difference, but I do notice a warmer midrange, and Bass goes just a tiny bit lower. Not a huge difference (probably because I'm not using very expensive, or good for that matter, headphones [Audio Technica ATH P1]), but definetly better.


I think you will hear much difference if you use non-electrolytic capacitors for your LOD. Buy cheap polypropylene or paper-in-oil capacitors @4.7uF or more.
 
Dec 4, 2008 at 12:15 AM Post #1,622 of 3,220
I thought Electrolytics were good for audio
confused_face(1).gif
? I have some 1uF polypropylene Caps, but not 4.7... So is bigger capacity better? If so I can buy some 47uF polypropylene Caps.
 
Dec 4, 2008 at 12:30 AM Post #1,623 of 3,220
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbarry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I thought Electrolytics were good for audio
confused_face(1).gif
? I have some 1uF polypropylene Caps, but not 4.7... So is bigger capacity better? If so I can buy some 47uF polypropylene Caps.



Worst of the worst
wink.gif


For a CMOY, skip the caps completely, you have input caps on the CMOY anyway.

Cap size depends on impedance of next stage

4.7uF : 10K
1.0uF : 50K
0.47uF : 100K

Likely your CMOY is 10K so 4.7uF is what you should go with, but since you already have caps on the CMOY, skip it.
 
Dec 4, 2008 at 9:06 PM Post #1,625 of 3,220
More capacitance in the CMoy power supply results in less bass attentuation, but after a point, you start getting excessive. I know 220uF is what is originally specified, but after 470uF and 680uF, bass rolloff isn't really an issue. But to answer your question in a word, sure.
 
Dec 5, 2008 at 1:24 AM Post #1,626 of 3,220
What would be the best capacitor type to use (budget is around $100 for both caps, and just out of curiosity)?

@Joneeboi, I meant to ask are Electrolytics any good for the power supply circuit, or will other types improve the SQ?

Edit: Looked back a couple of posts and found "Film Capacitors", but what kind? There are Polypropylene, Polyamide, Plastic, Polysulphone, etc. all of which are Film Caps.
 
Dec 5, 2008 at 5:43 AM Post #1,627 of 3,220
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbarry /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What would be the best capacitor type to use (budget is around $100 for both caps, and just out of curiosity)?

@Joneeboi, I meant to ask are Electrolytics any good for the power supply circuit, or will other types improve the SQ?



Power supply caps for headamps & dc blocking caps for iPod LOD is two different topics. See first page of this thread, section 6.05.0 - 6.10.0

And yes electrolytics best use is for amps power supply section, other types cannot give that hundreds or thousands uF, cmiiw.
 
Dec 5, 2008 at 3:17 PM Post #1,628 of 3,220
Ron.id is right. Electrolytics are the only realistic option in the power supply. You can't get that kind of capacitance for that size and price except with electrolytics. Typically, a high speed reservoir cap, typically film, is put in parallel with the power supply electrolytic capacitors to help with sudden spikes in current draw, as seen in C4+ and C4- in the PIMETA schematic.

http://www.tangentsoft.net/audio/pim...schematic1.pdf

If you want, you can put both film and electrolytic capacitors in the power supply in this arrangement. Many other designs around head-fi employ the film bypass capacitor, so you're in good company.
 
Dec 6, 2008 at 6:20 AM Post #1,630 of 3,220
there is no 'best' capacitor. and to put ANY film caps in it wont go in an LOD it has to go in a similar arrangement to my case I posted before. the 'best' caps will set you back around $400 each and thats not even counting audionote. but for quality caps the usual suspects are: VCAP OIMP (at least 2-3.3uf depending on the input impedance of your amp), mundorf supreme, supreme silver, supreme silver in oil, supreme silver/gold, supreme silver/gold in oil, clarity cap, musicap, VCAP teflon film tin foil (TFTF) jensen copper foil. etc. etc. all of these aer great caps but they each have their own character; some of them, like the teflons their special character is the fact that they dont have character but exhibit ultimate transparency as their SQ. As was mentioned just before, you can use a good quality 'lower end' cap in a largish value like 3.3 that doesn't cost the earth like mundorf supreme or equivalent (RWA use these in their amps) and then use a faster more accurate (teflon or silver/gold) cap in a value about 1/10 of the larger one in a bypass (parallel) configuration, to add detail and sparkle to the meatier more bassy mundorf. what cap you will prefer is down to personal taste though some like the VCAP and mundorfs are a pretty safe bet. but all of them are at least 1" thick and at least as long. that is why electrolytics are used so often when they are inferior (by the most part anyway) in so far as SQ to the films because you just cant get a film cap that is small enough in large enough values to use by themselves in a small amp or regular LOD they can only be used as bypass to liven things up to try and compensate for the slower nature of electrolytic caps.
 
Dec 8, 2008 at 6:56 PM Post #1,631 of 3,220
I seem to have missed the date by a little over a week, but the diyMod thread has reached its one year anniversary. In just over one year, the thread has seen just over 1600 replies and almost 142,000 views spanning some 13 odd models. I don't know the number of diyMods that have been completed, but there is a healthy set of images to display the talent and creativity of the people that have contributed to and benefited from this thread. I want to thank all of you for making this thread what it was, is and will be in the years to come. I'm just amazed that a simple datasheet search on Google turned into something so monumental. At the time of the writing of this post, this thread is sitting at 6th most replies and 5th most views in head-fi's DIY subsection, and for non-stickied threads it's the 4th in replies and 2nd in views. I think that's quite an accomplishment considering all the diyMod accomplishes is the replacement of two blocking capacitors. At those rankings, we're standing next to projects like the Millett Max (far below it, mind you), Bijou, Alien DAC, M^3, the Millett Starving Student and more. I'm honoured and humbled to stand in the company of such cornerstones of the head-fi DIY community. Thanks for the great year, everyone. *wipes tear*
 
Dec 10, 2008 at 5:29 AM Post #1,632 of 3,220
I've had my DIY done for a while now, but right now is the first chance I've had to listen to it! (Didn't have the cable) And it sounds amazing, I only have sony v500s (Getting Alessandro Ms1 soon) and it is probably the best sounding music I have heard from electronics. (I don't have much experience... but still!)

This thread is great
 
Dec 10, 2008 at 10:37 PM Post #1,633 of 3,220
I've been meaning to post about the capacitor controversy but have been designing a valveless engine in CAD. Anyways, I took a break and maybe i can clear some confusion from the thread.

As you may know, capacitors used for coupling have a unique frequency response depending on the impedances of the source output and amp input. Attached is two files, a picture of the test circuit in Multisim 10 which was designed to mimic typical values for output and input impedances, and a PDF of the frequency responses of four typical valued capacitors. Input to test circuit was 10mV peak-peak with 15mV DC offset (values found in iPod nano 3G DAC).

To keep a frequency response absolutely flat in any given iPod/amplifier stage values ranging from 1uF to 33uF can be used with frequency responses of not worse than -0.01db for a 1uF. Values smaller than 1uF will begin to create a high pass filter around 200 Hz for the test circuit. Phase difference is irrelevant since both channels being coupled will be out of phase equally.

The use of polarized electrolytics isn't recommended. It's simply because of their construction, when an AC voltage is presented to a polarized capacitor, the thin aluminum oxide that forms the dielectric on the positive plate is punctured by the reverse voltage which creates a short circuit between the two plates. This short allows the capacitor to pass any DC bias to the next stage which will be amplified with the AC signal coming from the source. Because the puncture of the dielectric (which is 0.025" thick) starts out small at first, it won't be noticeable until the voice coils overheat and fail. Considering the hundreds if not thousands of dollars some of you spend on headphones and speakers, amplifying DC bias isn't tolerable at all, So don't use polarized capacitors for coupling.

Materials used in construction determine the qualities and capacitance of a capacitor. Obviously higher purity/quality materials will yield a higher quality capacitor. General choices in materials suitable for coupling capacitors are paper, plastic, and non-polarized electrolytic. Each have their strengths and weaknesses.

Electrolytics are cheap, small physical size for their capacitance, but have low temperature stability so their capacity is substantially reduced at lower temperatures.

Paper based capacitors are more temperature stable than electrolytics, but have less capacity vs physical size and are more expensive than electrolytics.

Plastic capacitors - any dielectric having "poly" in the name. These capacitors have very good temperature stability, are generally smaller than paper capacitors, but are more expensive than electrolytic and paper capacitors.

 
Dec 11, 2008 at 5:53 AM Post #1,634 of 3,220
Ok I don't know what is going on here.... Like I said earlier I finished the mod and was listening to it. I was listening to it through a self-made usb cable with capacitors between the audio channels.

Today I left another iPod playing in my drawer to burn in the capacitors. And now it is acting very strange. Through the cable the iPod classic is detected, and when I play it through the comp both channels come in just fine, although it was acting a little strange and took longer to detect than normally. And when I plug in the modded iPod 5th gen I can see that the iPod recognizes that it's plugged into a computer (Little icon in rockbox), but then it goes away and just charges.

If I plug the diymod with a different cable into the comp it loads up ok?

But I was listening through this cable last night and this morning, got home and now it won't work??

Any ideas ??? I dont know why but I have a strange feeling it has to do with the capacitors blocking the weaker signal of the diymod because they were getting charged all day and night??

I'm just really confused here, anyone have any ideas....??

Also, if I plug in my diymod through a normal cable to the comp I am able to access it and everything fine...

If I am just data transferring and not listening to music than there should be no harm done correct??
 
Dec 11, 2008 at 9:17 AM Post #1,635 of 3,220
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaningtime /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I was listening to it through a self-made usb cable with capacitors between the audio channels.

Also, if I plug in my diymod through a normal cable to the comp I am able to access it and everything fine...

If I am just data transferring and not listening to music than there should be no harm done correct??



Both data transferring & music listening through your computer via USB data cable should be safe. Your computer simply will not accept line-out from your iPod via USB cable.

The problems maybe lies in your self-made usb cable equipped with caps, or loose/broken bypass cable from DAC to dock inside your iPod.
 

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