[obsidyen]

I'm interested in this amp, it looks beautiful. I wonder though, wouldn't the use of CS4398 be better? As far as I know it's a more modern chip and you used it in your cheaper products. What advantages does WM8741 have? More analog sound, more natural?
 
I'm glad you didn't go the Sabre way though. I don't like the sound of them.
 
Also some people compared this to Hugo. I didn't have a chance to try this amp as I live on the other side of the Atlantic, but I had Hugo for a few months and it had a bright and lean sound signature which I didn't enjoy at all. I hope CDM sounds more natural and relaxed.

 

[cladane]

  I'm interested in this amp, it looks beautiful. I wonder though, wouldn't the use of CS4398 be better? As far as I know it's a more modern chip and you used it in your cheaper products. What advantages does WM8741 have? More analog sound, more natural?
 
I'm glad you didn't go the Sabre way though. I don't like the sound of them.
 
Also some people compared this to Hugo. I didn't have a chance to try this amp as I live on the other side of the Atlantic, but I had Hugo for a few months and it had a bright and lean sound signature which I didn't enjoy at all. I hope CDM sounds more natural and relaxed.

About WM8741 I think Vinnie knows it well and is accustomed to it.
You are right about Hugo: high quality DAC, very resolvant but bright discrete amp (noticeable with HD800). On the other side CDM is a tube amp.

 

[soundify]

About WM8741 I think Vinnie knows it well and is accustomed to it.
You are right about Hugo: high quality DAC, very resolvant but bright discrete amp (noticeable with HD800). On the other side CDM is a tube amp.

Does it mean that the CDM is heavily colored?

If it is on the other side of the spectrum, then I would assume that it is not accurate, extremely warm sounding, heavy bass and rolled off treble.

I hope this is not the case.

 

[obsidyen]

I hope not. What I want is neutral, natural, relaxed, non fatiguing but never bright, lean or dark, warm.

 

[Vinnie R.]

Does it mean that the CDM is heavily colored?

If it is on the other side of the spectrum, then I would assume that it is not accurate, extremely warm sounding, heavy bass and rolled off treble.

I hope this is not the case.

 
All,
 
Just to make sure we are on the same page:
 
The CDM is NOT heavily colored. 
 
- Creating an amp/dac that is not bright / sterile / fatiguing does not mean it has to be inaccurate, heavily colored, extremely warm and heavy.
- And by having a dual mono tube front end, it does not mean it is going to be overly warm and rolled off.
 
Quite the contrary - we wanted the CDM to be very extended and resolving, AND to be very natural sounding.  Both requirements were equally important, along with wanting the midrange to have beautiful tone - the bass to have good punch and attack - the treble to be open and airy (spaciousness on CDM is awesome!).
 
Using the dual mono 6111 tube input stage (in a way that was not used before in the previous Continentals - or any other portable for that matter) played a big role in this.  There are no DC-DC converters in the CDM.  A linear voltage regulators.  No transformers.  With most IEM's, you'd use the CDM on low-gain and the low noise floor and absence of microphonics are excellent (a huge improvement over the previous Continentals). 
 
We also used the best battery pack we could fit in there - using the same Panasonic 18650 cells as used in the Tesla (not far cheaper and inferior 18650s that have flooded the battery market).  Our battery pack has low impedance / high output current and also is a large contributor to the sound.
 
Implementation is everything!  And I've been working on the CDM with ALO for well over a year.  We wanted to get the sound just right, and it has taken many months of fine-tuning, listening, many board revisions, etc.  If Ken had it his way, it would have been available last Fall.  But we were still refining and were not going to release it until we got the sound just right. 
 
As for the dac...
 

I'm interested in this amp, it looks beautiful. I wonder though, wouldn't the use of CS4398 be better? As far as I know it's a more modern chip and you used it in your cheaper products. 

 
I could have easily used CS4398, Sabre, etc.  In fact, CS4398 uses less power (= better battery life), and is much lower cost.  But we all agreed on how the WM8741 (with minimal phase digital filter setting = no pre-ringing) was the most natural and analog sounding.  Again, it met the criteria that we were looking for above - extended, resolving, but natural.
 
And yes, I've worked with the WM8741 with the RWAK100-S and RWAK120-S/B mods - and all the feedback from that implementation was overwhelmingly positive that we wanted to use the WM8741 (with an even better implementation of the clocking and analog output stage) in the CDM.  The digital section of the CDM is not a quick "throw in."  It's a seriously good sounding dac, and we added a dedicated line out jack on the back panel because of this.
 
The entire digital section using all linear voltage regulation, a dedicated clock generator IC, and is self-powered (not USB bus powered).  If you don't plug in the USB cable, the power to the entire digital section is automatically turned OFF. 
 

 I hope not. What I want is neutral, natural, relaxed, non fatiguing but never bright, lean or dark, warm.

 
Give the CDM a listen - compare it to all the amp/dacs available that you can, and you be the judge. 

 
Speaking of listening, I'll be attending the upcoming NY Headphone Meet (May 2nd) - and I'll bring the CDM prototype to let everyone
listen to.
 
Ken and the ALO Team are working hard at gearing up for production - and so far, everything sounds like it is going well!
 
- Vinnie

 

[obsidyen]

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like this is going to be a fantastic amp/dac. Certainly on my short list of future purchases.

 

[soundify]

Vinnie, thanks for the detailed explanation behind the overall goal of the CDM. This is definitely something everyone wants to know and your explanation clears any doubts about the product. It also gives me a better understanding behind the premium price of the CDM.

Can't wait to try this unit when it is available!

 

[Schopenhauer]

 
As for the dac...
 

I'm interested in this amp, it looks beautiful. I wonder though, wouldn't the use of CS4398 be better? As far as I know it's a more modern chip and you used it in your cheaper products. 

 
I could have easily used CS4398, Sabre, etc.  In fact, CS4398 uses less power (= better battery life), and is much lower cost.  But we all agreed on how the WM8741 (with minimal phase digital filter setting = no pre-ringing) was the most natural and analog sounding.  Again, it met the criteria that we were looking for above - extended, resolving, but natural.
 
And yes, I've worked with the WM8741 with the RWAK100-S and RWAK120-S/B mods - and all the feedback from that implementation was overwhelmingly positive that we wanted to use the WM8741 (with an even better implementation of the clocking and analog output stage) in the CDM.  The digital section of the CDM is not a quick "throw in."  It's a seriously good sounding dac, and we added a dedicated line out jack on the back panel because of this.
 
The entire digital section using all linear voltage regulation, a dedicated clock generator IC, and is self-powered (not USB bus powered).  If you don't plug in the USB cable, the power to the entire digital section is automatically turned OFF. 
 
- Vinnie

This is exactly what I've wanted to hear. Thank you very much! I've been thinking recently about the CDM and its relation its competitors. Some people were arguing that the primary competitor would be the WA8 since, at that time, it was suggested that the amp portion of the CDM would be the star of the show. I have no doubt that ALO can put out a killer amp. But I think what many people want from this item isn't just a stellar amp: They want a stellar DAC, too. I don't think a stellar amp alone would make the CDM competitive at its price point. $1500 goes a long way in the amp world, even if we're restricting ourselves to transportable amps. But a well implemented TOTL Wolfson DAC should get people very excited. I'm excited, at least. Vinnie, from what you're saying here, I think y'all could very well have a winner on your hands. 

 

[DecentLevi]

Hi guys, I'd just like to 2nd Vinnie's words (the owner) from his technical explanation above 3 days ago. Believe me, this is not any sort of marketing gimmik or hype where a merchant doesn't really test the sound of his product... I tried the CDM with several headphones at CanJam and reading his technical explanation of the sound signature, it's so accurate that it almost 'takes me back to the listening booth'! And believe me, I'm just a fellow head-fi'er and and hourly-worker.
 
It is somewhat mythical to me however that this portable amp seemed to be able to actually drive my full size headphones better than other larger amps, although it has a lower ohm output - well enough that I think it may actually realize the full potential of some of my larger cans. Maybe it's got some adaptive impendence circuitry or it could just be all from the sensational sound it puts out!

 

[maricius]

 
Hi Tibor,
 
I would give the nod to the CDM, far less grainy is the biggest thing I notice, more low end extension and a overall larger musical sphere, DAC is also far better. The CDM is more advanced than the Pan AM on just about every level. I do not know of the CDM DAC can take the digits off the Sony player. Is the Sony Android based?
 
Thanks
 
Ken

I'm just about sold. I have some questions though. If I were to use the single-ended line input, would I be able to use and reap the benefits of the balanced output? Some amplifiers allow this while others require a balanced source. I've also read through this thread and forgive me if this was already discussed but is the amplifier section a pure tube amplifier or is it still considered a hybrid? Would it be classified as Class A in terms of topology (though I'm impartial to Class A being better and whatever else)?
 
I have no doubt the amplifier section would better the amplifier section of my iFi Micro iDSD (except in power) but I'm curious if the single ended input would limit the performance of the CDM's amplifier should I prefer my iDSD's DAC over the CDM's. 
 
*edit* I do wish it was more powerful, at least enough my Alpha Dog with ease. 
 
*edit* I've read it to be fully balanced. I'm assuming this means it has phase splitters past the single-ended input so it somewhat answers my first question. Also, I naturally would prefer a standalone portable tube amp but I have faith in ALO's ability to add an internal DAC that would pair well in a jiffy with its amp section should my iDSD not better the internal DAC or not synergise well with the amp section.

 

[AxelCloris]

  Hi onlychild,
 
I should be able to do that - but keep in mind that I'll be showing a Vinnie Rossi LIO in a home audio room (with Harbeth speakers), not a headfi section of the show. 
 
So I might have to put you in the bathroom (do worry, we just use the show room bathroom to stock boxes and stuff

) of the room so you can listen in a more
quiet setting. 
 
Yes, feed the CDM with your RWAK240+, or even your laptop (or iOS / Android device) if you are bringing one.
 
See you there!
 
Vinnie

 
Hi Vinnie,
 
I'm interested to know if you're still thinking you'll have the CDM at AXPONA this weekend. I'd love to get a chance to listen since I didn't get the opportunity at CanJam.
 
Thanks

 

[CJG888]

Will it be at SIAV tomorrow?

 

[onlychild]

Got a chance to listen to the CDM at the Redwine room (or should I say bathroom) at Axpona and lets just say I'm buying one as soon as it comes out.  Its the exact sound signature I like, very full, rich, with tons of detail and no harshness.  
 
Note, I only ran it as a balanced amp (did not test the dac) from my RWAK240+.  Tested with Roxannes, balanced out.
 

 

[gr8soundz]

 

 
For some reason, I imagined the CDM was smaller and much more portable in size.
 
Still want one despite the price but the size appears designed for home use. Maybe just small enough to be transportable.

 

[audiofrk]

Hello Ken and Hello Vinnie!!
 
It was nice to see meet you at canjam.  Vinnie I have a couple of questions about your design.
 
I remember a while back in the ak120 thread you where saying you wanted to try to make dap based of the wm8741 but you were having trouble sourcing a good volume pot.  Which pot are you using for the CDM?  Is it the ceramic volume pot from the rx?
 
also why not use LiFEPO4 battery instead of a regular Li ion?