[Kammerat Rebekka]

is it worth buying a k712 Pro if you have a k702?

I used to think that it was the same headphone except for the pads but there’s also done something to the dampening of the drivers methinks...so yeah I think it’s perfectly reasonable to own both if you want a different sound signature
The K712 Pro sounds very different - warmer and altogether more laidback compared to the K702. You’ll want to let the upstairs compartment settle in on the new presentation before you start a/b’ing with the K702. That is my advice anyways. If you start out swapping back n forth between headphones chances are you’ll find the new K712 weird sounding.

As an aside: I saw folks mentioning specs earlier on in this thread. Just remember that the 105 dB isn’t in mW but in V. Doing the math and it ends up being a 93 dB/mW headphone instead....which looks like a beast to some out there, but you’ll be just fine with a Mojo to be honest...unless you’re determined to wage war against your hearing

 

[sebek]

I used to think that it was the same headphone except for the pads but there’s also done something to the dampening of the drivers methinks...so yeah I think it’s perfectly reasonable to own both if you want a different sound signature
The K712 Pro sounds very different - warmer and altogether more laidback compared to the K702. You’ll want to let the upstairs compartment settle in on the new presentation before you start a/b’ing with the K702. That is my advice anyways. If you start out swapping back n forth between headphones chances are you’ll find the new K712 weird sounding.

As an aside: I saw folks mentioning specs earlier on in this thread. Just remember that the 105 dB isn’t in mW but in V. Doing the math and it ends up being a 93 dB/mW headphone instead....which looks like a beast to some out there, but you’ll be just fine with a Mojo to be honest...unless you’re determined to wage war against your hearing

Of course they could even be clearer on the specs. I asked a lot before buying it, but many people might buy it as a low impedance headphone with 105 mw sensitivity, convinced that a smartphone is enough.

 

[danterikxx]

I used to think that it was the same headphone except for the pads but there’s also done something to the dampening of the drivers methinks...so yeah I think it’s perfectly reasonable to own both if you want a different sound signature
The K712 Pro sounds very different - warmer and altogether more laidback compared to the K702. You’ll want to let the upstairs compartment settle in on the new presentation before you start a/b’ing with the K702. That is my advice anyways. If you start out swapping back n forth between headphones chances are you’ll find the new K712 weird sounding.

As an aside: I saw folks mentioning specs earlier on in this thread. Just remember that the 105 dB isn’t in mW but in V. Doing the math and it ends up being a 93 dB/mW headphone instead....which looks like a beast to some out there, but you’ll be just fine with a Mojo to be honest...unless you’re determined to wage war against your hearing

yeah, my K702 require some power to really push them

 

[Julius Decimus]

I bought the K712, 165 € with fast shipping, lightly used and in perfect condition, with 40-50 hours of use. Between Thursday and Friday it will be with me ...

This is very good.

I can help with EQ as well, if you are interested later. I have EQ for UAPP and Neutron Music Player. These are the two players i use. You can sure listen to them without the EQ, but in case decide try it.

There are many opinions about the power output needed. Some say needs a lot.

Here is the thing about this. Depends on how people use their devices.

For example, if you listen to your music without EQ and effects, without resampling and other similar ones, then you will find that they don't need a lot of power. When using with effects however, for an EQ if you raise the bass frequencies with 3dB, you will then have to lower the overall volume with 3dB so that the bass does not get distorted. Or if you raise them with 5dB, then need to lower the overall volume with 5dB. For mids or treble is same thing. Now that is big decrease in volume for the amplifier, so you will need it to be more powerful than normal to make up for this.

There are exceptions to this of course, but overall and mostly this is why you get so many different opinions.

I listen to metal and rock mainly and i most of the time like to listen them louder than normal levels. And, when you have generally good headphone like these here, or Sennheisers (not specifically bass heavy, or bright treble, just normal good response in all areas bass, mids, treble), you will find that when listen your music very loud, you get kind of overwhelmed by all this, specially the mids and treble. Because human hearing is best at "hearing" 1-5khz. This is exactly at the mids region and lower treble. So for me personally i lower them down little, and the treble as well so that i can then listen the music louder. This all is fine. However what happends when you lower mids and trebles, most headphones lose their details at these areas. Not with these here though. And this another thing why i think this is the best headphone, even up to 5-6x the price. You can lower the treble and mids, but you still have all the details from the music.

When you think about all this, i would say any amplifier that has below 500mW at 32ohms (the manufacturers usually post info for power output for 32) is just not worth looking into. If you go and check what is the current situation on the market, you will see almost none of the devices (at the reasonable price area) has 500 or above. Not to mention the DAPs. There is absolutely a no go. You get 500 or above only with balance output mostly. Top DAPs 1200E+, they do above the 500, however is it worth when you got the same thing 5-10 years ago for device 1/3 of this price. Now they just don't make them anymore. Mojo has around 600mW at 32ohms. Meybe more, i can't measure it, but i have old amplifier JDS Labs C5, it has 650 and the Mojo is same in power (actually there are very detailed reviews from previous years for Mojo, just i have not checked them, there should be written how much it is). Meybe even louder.

Yeah, most DAPs and DAC/amps (portable ones yes) todays have below 300mW at 32ohms single ended. This is just a joke. And another thing, they say its because the battery. So if you make it powerful, battery life will be super short. Well here is the thing with this as well, older DAPs from 8-10 years ago were with own OS. They didn't used Android. There is the battery problem solved (Sony DAPs that do not have Android from years ago, have 25-35+hours battery life), but not every company (actually almost none ?) wants to put effort in doing own OS anymore.

That all said, i definitely think the portable way to go is Mojo/Hugo2 (at least now and i don't see this changing in future 5 or more years as well) and you just get a phone (and big memory card) to give them signal. This is what i think from my experience. There are good DAPs for sure, not famous and widely used though, and again, good headphones and Chord DAC, don't see many things beating that.

 

[sebek]

This is very good.

I can help with EQ as well, if you are interested later. I have EQ for UAPP and Neutron Music Player. These are the two players i use. You can sure listen to them without the EQ, but in case decide try it.

There are many opinions about the power output needed. Some say needs a lot.

Here is the thing about this. Depends on how people use their devices.

For example, if you listen to your music without EQ and effects, without resampling and other similar ones, then you will find that they don't need a lot of power. When using with effects however, for an EQ if you raise the bass frequencies with 3dB, you will then have to lower the overall volume with 3dB so that the bass does not get distorted. Or if you raise them with 5dB, then need to lower the overall volume with 5dB. For mids or treble is same thing. Now that is big decrease in volume for the amplifier, so you will need it to be more powerful than normal to make up for this.

There are exceptions to this of course, but overall and mostly this is why you get so many different opinions.

I listen to metal and rock mainly and i most of the time like to listen them louder than normal levels. And, when you have generally good headphone like these here, or Sennheisers (not specifically bass heavy, or bright treble, just normal good response in all areas bass, mids, treble), you will find that when listen your music very loud, you get kind of overwhelmed by all this, specially the mids and treble. Because human hearing is best at "hearing" 1-5khz. This is exactly at the mids region and lower treble. So for me personally i lower them down little, and the treble as well so that i can then listen the music louder. This all is fine. However what happends when you lower mids and trebles, most headphones lose their details at these areas. Not with these here though. And this another thing why i think this is the best headphone, even up to 5-6x the price. You can lower the treble and mids, but you still have all the details from the music.

When you think about all this, i would say any amplifier that has below 500mW at 32ohms (the manufacturers usually post info for power output for 32) is just not worth looking into. If you go and check what is the current situation on the market, you will see almost none of the devices (at the reasonable price area) has 500 or above. Not to mention the DAPs. There is absolutely a no go. You get 500 or above only with balance output mostly. Top DAPs 1200E+, they do above the 500, however is it worth when you got the same thing 5-10 years ago for device 1/3 of this price. Now they just don't make them anymore. Mojo has around 600mW at 32ohms. Meybe more, i can't measure it, but i have old amplifier JDS Labs C5, it has 650 and the Mojo is same in power (actually there are very detailed reviews from previous years for Mojo, just i have not checked them, there should be written how much it is). Meybe even louder.

Yeah, most DAPs and DAC/amps (portable ones yes) todays have below 300mW at 32ohms single ended. This is just a joke. And another thing, they say its because the battery. So if you make it powerful, battery life will be super short. Well here is the thing with this as well, older DAPs from 8-10 years ago were with own OS. They didn't used Android. There is the battery problem solved (Sony DAPs that do not have Android from years ago, have 25-35+hours battery life), but not every company (actually almost none ?) wants to put effort in doing own OS anymore.

That all said, i definitely think the portable way to go is Mojo/Hugo2 (at least now and i don't see this changing in future 5 or more years as well) and you just get a phone (and big memory card) to give them signal. This is what i think from my experience. There are good DAPs for sure, not famous and widely used though, and again, good headphones and Chord DAC, don't see many things beating that.

I always try to listen without EQ, with the IEMs I never equalized and I used UAPP bit perfect, but if it is necessary or I want to try I will ask you for the EQ settings for UAPP ...

 

[Julius Decimus]

I always try to listen without EQ, with the IEMs I never equalized and I used UAPP bit perfect, but if it is necessary or I want to try I will ask you for the EQ settings for UAPP ...

Its good both ways. Don't EQ if you like it without. I say this because without EQ you get the most details from the music.

 

[Julius Decimus]

.

 

[Brother Bach]

I did try EQing just to see what all the fuss was about, and preferred what I was listening to without it.

I absolutely love my Q701 and K712. I did read the thread comparing the different headphones in this line. If have reduced my thinking process to the following example. I have a really decent vintage system. My friend is a an audiophile with money burn. So, I have the opportunity to listen to the same music on both systems. When I listen to his system, there is an initial wow factor that I soon acclimatize to, and that high end system becomes normal to me. When I go back to my system, I can hear that there is a difference. Because my system is still really good, so I do not consider it a bad difference. Just a difference set up. Again, I soon acclimatize to that level and do not feel like I am something is missing.

To me, it is the same between the AKG Q701 and K712 but there is zero difference in quality. The are some differences in the frequency-reponse curves. Can you look at them and hear those differences? Maybe. I am not that schooled in the language to be able to write a detailed analysis and others have already done so. I can not tell the difference because whatever difference there is, I acclimatize to it and it becomes the same beautiful listening experience as the previous headphone in an A/B comparison. I can however hear the difference between those two headphones my Philips Fidelio X2HR, which is also a wonderful headphone. I do not acclimatize to the difference. The entire listening experience is different but equally enjoyable.

If I only had the Q701s, in retrospect can I say I would not spend the money on the K712s and vis versa. I was susceptible to the reviews and hype that made me think that I would be missing out on some aspect of the music listening experience, when, in reality, what I am really missing out on is the difference in headphone listening experince which is a bit of a rabbit hole. I know better now after some experience. But, the Philips Fidelio X2HR are so genuinely different, that if I wanted that listening experience, I would purchase them even if I had the AKGs. Those differences are reflected in the frequency response curves, and other are better able to describe them.

Best Wishes,

BB

 

[sebek]

Have you owned the K712 Pro for many years? What do you think of the build quality? I always feel it very fragile in my hands ...

 

[Brother Bach]

I purchased them in December but have owned the K701s since they were released and now also the Q701s. I now also own the Philips X2HR. The X2HR feels like an army tan; seems like high quality build. The AKGs do not feel |solid like the X2HR but also they do not feel cheap. I have the Slovenia version and the build quality seems very good to me but not as *solid* as the X2HR. However, Q701s are the same Austrian made as the K701s and they are more solid than the Slovenia K712s but the difference is not great.

 

[Julius Decimus]

Have you owned the K712 Pro for many years? What do you think of the build quality? I always feel it very fragile in my hands ...

I have for 6 years. The shorter spiral form cable broke up last year, near the connector to the headphone. I guess its heavy (does not feel so, but...) and although short, with the time you can expect to damage itself from the weight. If you have a possibility and its not inconvenient, use the longer cable. Plus the short cable when its heavy, it also is dangerous somewhat to the headphone jack of the amplifier you are using. Noting will happen to it, just for 5 years might, that's what i mean. There are for sure other cables you can find for these, that are more durable, but i have not checked. The ones that came with it are fine. That is for the cable.

The headphone itself and headband is fine, its completely OK. No signs of anything strange.

Pads meybe need to change every 1 or 2 years if you use them a lot, from hygiene point of view. Look for velour ones, they last longest.

 

[sebek]

I am very happy with the K712, it only took some initial burn-in to open.

I am using it with Mojo and Dragonfly Cobalt.

With Mojo he brings out incredible detail and realism, a beautiful three-dimensional sound that projects you directly under the stage.

I also love it with the Cobalt though, which is less impressive technically but has a more neutral signature, with that extra touch of sparkle than Mojo, which maybe warms up the sound and boosts the bass a little too much for my taste.

Two combos that I really appreciate anyway, that I like to alternate between.

 

[Brother Bach]

I agree 100%. That was my only compliant. The original AKG K701s did not have a detachable cable but it was extremely high quality lasting since they were released. The cables that came with the Q701 and the K712 are all suspect. The connections were not secure. I had replacement cables made from https://www.audiophileninja.com/ the cost was a reason for a high quality replacement.

BB

 

[sebek]

I have for 6 years. The shorter spiral form cable broke up last year, near the connector to the headphone. I guess its heavy (does not feel so, but...) and although short, with the time you can expect to damage itself from the weight. If you have a possibility and its not inconvenient, use the longer cable. Plus the short cable when its heavy, it also is dangerous somewhat to the headphone jack of the amplifier you are using. Noting will happen to it, just for 5 years might, that's what i mean. There are for sure other cables you can find for these, that are more durable, but i have not checked. The ones that came with it are fine. That is for the cable.

The headphone itself and headband is fine, its completely OK. No signs of anything strange.

Pads meybe need to change every 1 or 2 years if you use them a lot, from hygiene point of view. Look for velour ones, they last longest.

I am actually using the black spiral cable, the orange one is really too long and uncomfortable ... can I find an aftermarket one that is shorter than this and less heavy than the spiral one? Not too expensive and good quality ... does anyone use it?

 

[Julius Decimus]

I am actually using the black spiral cable, the orange one is really too long and uncomfortable ... can I find an aftermarket one that is shorter than this and less heavy than the spiral one? Not too expensive and good quality ... does anyone use it?

Nothing will happen to it, do not worry. Your headphones are not 5 years old. And Mojo has strong headphone jack.

This is example: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r6VW5xgRfvg/maxresdefault.jpg

When you start seeing such cracks around the cable, then need change. My happend at the top near the connector plug.

You know, that is my opinion. And even if it breaks you have the other cable as backup.

There are aftermarket cables, but i don't use such, when the two factory ones brake, then i will look for another. The other guys will be more helpful with advice.

I am very happy with the K712, it only took some initial burn-in to open.

Good, good.