[vaibhavp]

any one using fostex hp a4 or alo pan am with k550 ?
 
I am using audinst hud mini with mine and I think I can do better.
 
any other suggestions in $500 range are welcome.
 
I understand k550 need better quality dac/amp than power.
 
even a dac without an amp could drive them, if it comes down to that

 

[p a t r i c k]

We don't fully understand why the human brain works the way it does but that's something different from how sound works which is quite well understood. We've understood it for going on 80 years. I point at the work the many engineers at Bell Labs in the 1930s. For example, Messrs. Fletcher and Munson, famous for the Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curves. Good headphones sound good because of their work. Another example, Messrs. Nyquist and Shannon, famous for the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem that makes digital audio encoding and decoding possible.

I stand by my statement: audio is a well defined, well understood science.

 
I agree that audio is a well understood science and that our perception of sound is not well understood.
 
The human hearing did not develop to test out audio products, it developed to assist with the survival of the human species.
 
While human hearing is extremely sensitive it is subject to our psychological state.
 
There has been tremendous work on this by Pawel J. Jastreboff in particular when dealing with the problem of tinnitus and other medical condition. Jastreboff's work does not give detail about the relationship between psyche and audio perception but it does illustrate how massively important the psychological state is.
 
From Jastreboff's work we can see that humans can tune in to particular sounds, they can change the nature of sound, indeed they can do pretty much anything with sound. Very importantly, humans do this all the time and subconsciously.
 
The flexible nature of our sound perception probably explains many of the phenomena described by audio enthusiasts such as differences between cables and similar issues. It is probably auto-suggestion at work in most cases.
 
I believe that Hi Fi enthusiasts for the most part engage consumerist desires and anxieties with the business of audio perception, so that when they listen to something expensive, for example, they mobilise auto-suggestion to hear sonic improvements, when they listen to something cheap they do the reverse.
 
Throughout audio this problem of auto-suggestion in hearing driven by consumerist anxieties is probably causing people to spend a great deal of money and time on things that will bring no real benefits to their enjoyment of music.
 
In my signature I have a link to an article on auto-suggestion which expands on this subject a bit.

 

[ratinox]

What you said interested me. Do my years perceive some frequencies better? Don't know, since most of the phones I owned were fairly neutral.

Good speakers are defined by flat frequency response where "flat" means precisely that: it's a flat line from 20Hz to 20kHz when measured at a distance of 1 meter. If you've ever looked at a headphone frequency response graph then you've seen that no headphone measures close to this. An ideal headphone reproduces some frequencies more or less strongly than others so that what you hear is identical to what you would hear from a good loudspeaker at a distance of 1 meter. All of the jargon used to describe headphones' sonic characteristics are relative to this ideal curve. We call this ideal curve "neutral".

 

[cel4145]

Good speakers are defined by flat frequency response where "flat" means precisely that: it's a flat line from 20Hz to 20kHz when measured at a distance of 1 meter. If you've ever looked at a headphone frequency response graph then you've seen that no headphone measures close to this. An ideal headphone reproduces some frequencies more or less strongly than others so that what you hear is identical to what you would hear from a good loudspeaker at a distance of 1 meter. All of the jargon used to describe headphones' sonic characteristics are relative to this ideal curve. We call this ideal curve "neutral".

Although KlarkKentThe3rd is right, too. Equal loudness contour curves from psychoacoustical research show us that perceived "flat" and measured flat are not the same thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

So the ideal perceived curve varies depending on the loudness, and a measured flat response will not be ideal for most people. And the perceived volumes vary depending on whether headphones or 2 speaker audio is used.

 

[SSandDigital]

any one using fostex hp a4 or alo pan am with k550 ?

I am using audinst hud mini with mine and I think I can do better.

any other suggestions in $500 range are welcome.

I understand k550 need better quality dac/amp than power.

even a dac without an amp could drive them, if it comes down to that :blink:

K550 is meant for portable use... Its exactly same as the 551 that has compatible cable with I phones... But whatever, if you want to believe it needs a $500 DAC from a company like ALO that has no repytation beyond few who have been conned on head-fi for a $200 headphone, your money to burn.

Shocking I use mine with my phone...

 

[x RELIC x]

K550 is meant for portable use... Its exactly same as the 551 that has compatible cable with I phones... But whatever, if you want to believe it needs a $500 DAC from a company like ALO that has no repytation beyond few who have been conned on head-fi for a $200 headphone, your money to burn.

Shocking I use mine with my phone...

AKG K-550 are good enough to benefit from proper amplification (portable amps or desktop amps) and many people enjoy the boost in sound quality they receive over a weak underpowered output from a portable phone. Shocking.

Enjoy the sound from your phone, and save your money, but don't crap on others for what they enjoy.

 

[vaibhavp]

K550 is meant for portable use... Its exactly same as the 551 that has compatible cable with I phones... But whatever, if you want to believe it needs a $500 DAC from a company like ALO that has no repytation beyond few who have been conned on head-fi for a $200 headphone, your money to burn.

Shocking I use mine with my phone...

almost all flagships of yesteryears go for like $200.
 
that does not mean you should use iphone with them.

 

[cel4145]

AKG K-550 are good enough to benefit from proper amplification (portable amps or desktop amps) and many people enjoy the boost in sound quality they receive over a weak underpowered output from a portable phone. Shocking.

Enjoy the sound from your phone, and save your money, but don't crap on others for what they enjoy.

Well, that's no better than his attitude. LOL

The K550s are fairly easy to drive, and depending on what listening level one uses and what phone or DAP, the K550s may not be "underpowered." The built in headphone amp could provide plenty of power and dynamics. Seriously. We aren't talking about the K1612s or Q701s here

 

[vaibhavp]

Well, that's no better than his attitude. LOL

The K550s are fairly easy to drive, and depending on what listening level one uses and what phone or DAP, the K550s may not be "underpowered." The built in headphone amp could provide plenty of power and dynamics. Seriously. We aren't talking about the K1612s or Q701s here

the thing is I am noticing some blurring of notes
 
and some lack of clarity at places. I am feeling k550's resolution is being wasted.
 
its not only about power. dac should also be capable of projecting a good image. if it can't, even a hp that is powered well will show what comes out of dac.

 

[cel4145]

the thing is I am noticing some blurring of notes

and some lack of clarity at places. I am feeling k550's resolution is being wasted.

its not only about power. dac should also be capable of projecting a good image. if it can't, even a hp that is powered well will show what comes out of dac.

Yeah. I didn't mention DACs. I was referring to the "underpowered" comment about internal headphone amps on phones and DAPs, which is no better than all one needs is a phone implication in that other post. Neither generalization is particularly useful. If you want to spend a lot of money on a portable DAC/amp, go look at the Leckertons

 

[vaibhavp]

Yeah. I didn't mention DACs. I was referring to the "underpowered" comment about internal headphone amps on phones and DAPs, which is no better than all one needs is a phone implication in that other post. Neither generalization is particularly useful. If you want to spend a lot of money on a portable DAC/amp, go look at the Leckertons

looks good

 

[x RELIC x]

Yeah. I didn't mention DACs. I was referring to the "underpowered" comment about internal headphone amps on phones and DAPs, which is no better than all one needs is a phone implication in that other post. Neither generalization is particularly useful. If you want to spend a lot of money on a portable DAC/amp, go look at the Leckertons

Well, I never said anything about dedicated DAPs. I enjoy my K550 quite a bit out of my X5, much more so than from my iPhone 5s.

I simply think it's not fair to say that people who enjoy better amplification are "conned" in to it. Perhaps the attitude was not required on my part.

I still think that the output from a mobile phone won't match an external amp/DAC, or DAP, in clarity and soundstage. IMO. If it's good enough for others that's cool, I'm glad for them. Just don't tread on others for their choices.

To contribute to the question about the Pan Am, I can say that I like the sound and it's good when I want that tube sound. For clarity I actually prefer the sound from the X5 with the K550 over the Pan Am. The X5 paired with the e12 to the K550 is even better for soundstage and dynamics. The bass is also better as well as the instrument separation.

 

[vaibhavp]

Well, I never said anything about dedicated DAPs. I enjoy my K550 quite a bit out of my X5, much more so than from my iPhone 5s.

I simply think it's not fair to say that people who enjoy better amplification are "conned" in to it. Perhaps the attitude was not required on my part.

I still think that the output from a mobile phone won't match an external amp/DAC, or DAP, in clarity and soundstage. IMO. If it's good enough for others that's cool, I'm glad for them. Just don't tread on others for their choices.

To contribute to the question about the Pan Am, I can say that I like the sound and it's good when I want that tube sound. For clarity I actually prefer the sound from the X5 with the K550 over the Pan Am. The X5 paired with the e12 to the K550 is even better for soundstage and dynamics. The bass is also better as well as the instrument separation.

 
thanks. so if you put e12, it improves dynamics? interesting.
 
so looks like solid state is way to go (for now). will try to audition otherwise fostex will have to do.
 
by the way I am amazed at dynamics k550 offers. want more of those.

 

[x RELIC x]

thanks. so if you put e12, it improves dynamics? interesting.

so looks like solid state is way to go (for now). will try to audition otherwise fostex will have to do.

by the way I am amazed at dynamics k550 offers. want more of those.

The biggest improvement overall is from the X5 DAC IMO (clarity and natural presentation), but the headroom with the e12 power output and the black background the sound quality is just great (great dynamics also). To be honest the e12 could be considered overkill for the K550, but I do enjoy it and the bass boost is well implemented if your into using bass boost, it adds a good low end thump with the K550. A really fun combination with the X5 and e12.

 

[vaibhavp]

The biggest improvement overall is from the X5 DAC IMO (clarity and natural presentation), but the headroom with the e12 power output and the black background the sound quality is just great (great dynamics also). To be honest the e12 could be considered overkill for the K550, but I do enjoy it and the bass boost is well implemented if your into using bass boost, it adds a good low end thump with the K550. A really fun combination with the X5 and e12.

ok.
 
tbh i expected so. better quality amplification always helps but here i think added benefit is not worth the cost of e12.
 
thanks.