[ian91]

Really don't wanna argue, I hate both conflicts and dishonesty. I still stand by that TSMR X is a good set, or is that wrong to say?

Sorry, that's wrong to say. The forum needs you to withhold judgement. Please wait until your opinion has aged several months and aligns with consensus. /s


I feel I need to chime in here, too. My most insightful assessments of tonality and presentation come in the first few hours of listening when the picture is most fresh in my mind and when the contrast between known reference points feels most apparent. The longer I listen, the more I can attribute my appreciation to brain burn-in and the less those 'flaws' perceived in the first few hours tend to bother me. In many cases, those 'flaws' are true and of material importance to the prospective buyer (yet of subjective importance to each listener).

The brain is an incredible thing with significant plasticity to it. I want to hear the fresh opinion of listeners, just as I want to hear the opinions of those whose insight has matured with time (and brain/driver burn).

 

[metafour]

Life advice...slow down your judgements. It's nothing to do with one liking it or one not liking it.....whatsoever. You yourself said you'd only had them a few hours. It's also context. If you were starting an evaluation of an IEM that would carry on and be useful for people fine. You just put a throw away comment not having really listened in depth and also about to pass them on to somebody else. That's not to me useful for others....helps nobody. It's way better to give IEMs more time and better evaluation. It's OK to be wrong . Take your time.

The literal R&D Manager at 64 Audio (which makes extremely high-end IEM's) recently stated that the first 5-15 seconds of listening with any IEM are the most important for forming an impression on the sound. So actually, your opinion here isn't even remotely accepted as fact by the engineers who actually design and tune these IEMs.

The logic isn't hard to understand: the longer you spend with something as subjective as "sound", the more you allow your brain to subconsciously start rationalizing and accepting potential flaws. Your brain will subconsciously play all sorts of tricks on you on a daily basis.

If you think an IEM has piercing treble out of the box, but after 100 hours of listening it doesn't bother you as much - do you think the IEM magically "re-tuned" itself to have less treble, or did your brain just start accepting a flaw in order to make yourself feel better?

 

[dharmasteve]

The literal R&D Manager at 64 Audio (which makes extremely high-end IEM's) recently stated that the first 5-15 seconds of listening with any IEM are the most important for forming an impression on the sound. So actually, your opinion here isn't even remotely accepted as fact by the engineers who actually design and tune these IEMs.

The logic isn't hard to understand: the longer you spend with something as subjective as "sound", the more you allow your brain to subconsciously start rationalizing and accepting potential flaws. Your brain will subconsciously play all sorts of tricks on you on a daily basis.

If you think an IEM has piercing treble out of the box, but after 100 hours of listening it doesn't bother you as much - do you think the IEM magically "re-tuned" itself to have less treble, or did your brain just start accepting a flaw in order to make yourself feel better?

That's not the point. It's obvious the first seconds are important...not definitive. Most, actually like the particular IEM we are taliking about. If I gave my opinion on all my IEMs for the first 5-15 seconds, or for anything, it would be stupid and would make an insane world..... we listen and have many impressions over time. It's obvious that like/dislike comes in immediately. The wise though are not that stupid. If I based my life on the first fifteen seconds of everything then nothing could change. Hopefully we are wiser and more mature than that.

 

[ian91]

That's not the point. It's obvious the first seconds are important...not definitive. Most, actually like the particular IEM we are taliking about. If I gave my opinion on all my IEMs for the first 5-15 seconds, or for anything, it would be stupid and would make an insane world..... we listen and have many impressions over time. It's obvious that like/dislike comes in immediately. The wise though are not that stupid. If I based my life on the first fifteen seconds of everything then nothing could change. Hopefully we are wiser and more mature than that.

This is not about wisdom or maturity, this is about perception and experience.

I would expect a man quoting Nagarjuna in their signature to appreciate (and value) how malleable our perceptions are and that the 'new' experience may provide insight into some truth that the older experience might not capture...


“In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities,
but in the expert’s there are few.” - Shunryū Suzuki

And a haiku...

An ancient pool,
A frog jumps in -
The sound of water.

Matsuo Basho

 

[dharmasteve]

This is not about wisdom or maturity, this is about perception and experience.

I would expect a man quoting Nagarjuna in their signature to appreciate (and value) how malleable our perceptions are and that the 'new' experience may provide insight into some truth that the older experience might not capture...


“In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities,
but in the expert’s there are few.” - Shunryū Suzuki

And a haiku...

An ancient pool,
A frog jumps in -
The sound of water.

Matsuo Basho

Ian...I hope you have studied Nagarjuna......if not what you are writing is not understanding. You should read him fully. You are being quick on the draw...making early conclusions. That's what I was saying to Leonafrd. I recommend 'The Precious Garland', Nagarjuna's 'Letter to a Friend' and the Mulamadhyakakarita....you can get them on Amazon.

​

 

[ian91]

Ian...I hope you have studied Nagarjuna......if not what you are writing is not understanding. You should read him fully. You are being quick on the draw...making early conclusions. That's what I was saying to Leonafrd. I recommend 'The Precious Garland', Nagarjuna's 'Letter to a Friend' and the Mulamadhyakakarita....you can get them on Amazon.

​

This is all the response I need. Your words here, your argument from the beginning and sentiment of the 'wiser guru' couldn't be further removed from Nagarjuna or his wonderfully illumined work on emptiness. Please don't choke on your own words or philosophy.

Nonetheless, I thank you for your concern for my suffering.

 

[dharmasteve]

This is all the response I need. Your words here, your argument from the beginning and sentiment of the 'wiser guru' couldn't be further removed from Nagarjuna or his wonderfully illumined work on emptiness. Please don't choke on your own words or philosophy.

Nonetheless, I thank you for your concern for my suffering.

Have you studied Nagarjuna? I am in no way portraying myself being as wise Nagarjuna. In fact I prostrate to him. The second Buddha. I have a Thangka of him in my living room. His teachings are what I put my heart into. You shouldn't be so flippant about him. His teachings on emptiness, Mulamadhyakakarita, are hard to understand... You though brought him up and are using him to demean me. At least I have studied the Precious Garland since about 2000. We are all suffering in Samsara Ian. It's easy to project on me and that is what you are doing. I hope you will buy the 'Precious Garland'....it is the most beautiful work. I wish you well.

 

[kaeswiss]

Whoa, two back-to-back divisive IEMs from the Penon store; Quattro and TSMR-X. Well maybe divisive is a strong word since we've only had one person who hasn't gushed over the TSMR-X, but still. Seeing so much hostility regarding these two IEMs have turned me off from wanting to even demo them. There's been a lot of "if you don't agree with me then you're wrong" attitudes lately which is pretty distasteful. No one is going to hear exactly the same so there's no reason to reject another person's impression that doesn't align with yours.

 

[MickBenjamins]

The world would be a much better place, if people wouldn't be so sensitive whether someone else feels the same about them about a pair of IEM's... you guys take going off topic to a whole nother level

 

[Singaravelan]

Whoa, two back-to-back divisive IEMs from the Penon store; Quattro and TSMR-X. Well maybe divisive is a strong word since we've only had one person who hasn't gushed over the TSMR-X, but still. Seeing so much hostility regarding these two IEMs have turned me off from wanting to even demo them. There's been a lot of "if you don't agree with me then you're wrong" attitudes lately which is pretty distasteful. No one is going to hear exactly the same so there's no reason to reject another person's impression that doesn't align with yours.

Yeah strong words - divisive and hostility, and incorrect for the X. Especially when that person who hasn't gushed has been pretty positive about it. Quattro was decisive. This X otoh seems to have attracted pretty much raves thus far.
( I haven't heard either).

 

[chibicas]

If you think an IEM has piercing treble out of the box, but after 100 hours of listening it doesn't bother you as much - do you think the IEM magically "re-tuned" itself to have less treble, or did your brain just start accepting a flaw in order to make yourself feel better?

I personally think that further proves his point. We don't buy these to listen for a few hours. I think listening to something that and talking about why someone would keep it after experiencing it's flaws for sometime are way more helpful then someone making a conclusion early. Of course early impressions are always welcome to me, but I think that the journey of being with it even longer is a much more special and useful impression rather than concluding its worth x off a few hours.

This is not about wisdom or maturity, this is about perception and experience.

But wisdom and the values we keep is what curves how we react to what we perceive and experience. Just because someone says something is "good" or perceived as good doesn't mean it is. The refined judgments we obtained by being mindful and paying attention to our lives create what we want to pay attention to and how we want to respond. Which in turn create how we want to react to certain situations. Experience is definitely a double edged in how we might be focusing on the wrong things and limits our possibilities but I think as soon you become mindful to that fact you can leverage that to make a more meaningful life and experience.

So I dont think wisdom is completely out of the question because that's what allows us to focus on what's important. In this case, Im thankful for his initial impressions but im more interested in how it changes or if it does with more time.

 

[chibicas]

The world would be a much better place, if people wouldn't be so sensitive whether someone else feels the same about them about a pair of IEM's... you guys take going off topic to a whole nother level

I completely understand your side on this topic but the point some people are making is that people are paying hundreds of dollars on these. And a more refined opinion is important and helpful for those who could possibly enjoy what other people are hearing! I personally like how serious people are because those are the most helpful people and they really like what they're doing.

 

[Erkil]

Let’s move past this little disagreement. Everybody is entitled to their opinions. Like @dharmasteve I like the X a lot, even if it maybe is not my preferred tuning. If you love something it is instinctual to defend it, it’s perfectly okay. If you love it a little less that is okay too! So we just all have to be a little more tolerant to others. We live longer too that way! . Have an excellent evening and rest of the weekend!

 

[shiningtofu]

Just a PSA because it threw me off entirely, the switches on the TSMR X are labeled 1,2,3 in left to right order on BOTH pieces. This is my first time using iems with switches so I’m not sure if that is normal. My expectation was for them to be symmetrical, meaning left: (3,2,1) right: (1,2,3). Instead it is left (1,2,3) right (1,2,3).

Also, I will share more impressions later on but I want to say first that the versatility the switches bring is really remarkable. Many have gushed over the bass accentuated setting but I have to say the treble emphasis setting was a god send when I needed to cut some of the bass for busy songs or to make vocals stand out a little more.

 

[emdeevee]

Gosh, a lot of action in here! I gave X the Dark Side of the Moon test last night, with full bass setting which I'm liking the most, Divinus Velvet tips, EA Cadmus 8w and Shanling M9 plus in Med gain. Just excellent, again, I think this one is a winner, and not just at the price point. @Leonarfd I think it's better than Maestro and Scarlet Mini, and trying to reach MSE levels (it doesn't, but price should be mentioned as MSE is 1800).

Treble in it's effect....by reducing bass. The 1up, 2down, 3down is definitely bass head, if one is judging bass in depth of low notes.

As mentioned, this is how I'm listening to it and I do not think this is basshead, maybe barely. The Scarlet is even more bassy.

As many know there has been plenty of times on Head-Fi were comments have been silenced, free speak? Most often due to stupid arguments, but not always.

If one say its good and another say it sounds bad both can be correct, we are all saying our own subjective opinion. If this was objective we have to 100% rely on measurements and data points, and I guess many disagree this is the way since two sets can measure similar and sound different.
About the early impressions, they might change over a week or two. Can always happen once brain adjust to the sound. But I dont see anything wrong about saying early impressions if its mentioned that its early thoughts.

Really don't wanna argue, I hate both conflicts and dishonesty. I still stand by that TSMR X is a good set, or is that wrong to say?

-------------------------------------------------
Using my desktop stack now, also the EA Cadmus 8W.

Been listening for many hours today, mix of older rock and some metal.
Listening now to one of my faovorite electronica albums, New Light. Love the sound, its mesmerising and fun experience.

Mine says hi!

The literal R&D Manager at 64 Audio (which makes extremely high-end IEM's) recently stated that the first 5-15 seconds of listening with any IEM are the most important for forming an impression on the sound. So actually, your opinion here isn't even remotely accepted as fact by the engineers who actually design and tune these IEMs.

The logic isn't hard to understand: the longer you spend with something as subjective as "sound", the more you allow your brain to subconsciously start rationalizing and accepting potential flaws. Your brain will subconsciously play all sorts of tricks on you on a daily basis.

If you think an IEM has piercing treble out of the box, but after 100 hours of listening it doesn't bother you as much - do you think the IEM magically "re-tuned" itself to have less treble, or did your brain just start accepting a flaw in order to make yourself feel better?

If I used that advice for iems right out of the box, only those that get some factory burn (yep, like 64audio and CFA) would remain. The great majority of other iems don't get that at the factory.

As to the brain versus gear burn, it's pretty clear that brain burn is the more effective of the two. But I would have jettisoned many an iem if I didn't let it burn in before I let my brain judge it. Best most recent example was the very expensive Kinera Loki Emerald that I demoed from brand new in the box. It sounded very much different from out of the box, where I listened for a couple minutes, to 100 hours when I listened again. That's when the 5-15 second test actually matters. They don't retune themselves, they come into their tuning with a bit of sustained current.

@dharmasteve i appreciate your zeal and agree that early impressions can be more black and white than after thorough listening of days, weeks. But @Leonarfd was openly saying these were early, so hopefully most readers can take that into account when trying to make decisions. But I'll challenge him on the pricing comment...these are a step up from a Penon 10th which cost $100 more. And those minis also cost more. So I'd say X is quite the deal at 400usd!