[Dsnuts]

@Dsnuts , I am certain you mean well. But, is the answer to improving an expensive purchase another expensive purchase?

Before suggesting new cables, maybe you can suggest people play around with cheap / free EQ to find out what changes would be required to dial in the sound they prefer? They could then determine if they believe any cable could achieve that change to the sound, or maybe conclude that EQ is the right answer in their case if they don’t think a cable will get them what they are looking for. The goal should be maximizing pleasure and value, not spending.

Look, I own a few nice cables from Effect Audio (Cadmus 8W, Eros S 8W Anniversary, Cadmus x Ares S 8W), NiceHCK, and IviQ. None of them affect the tuning (maybe slight volume differences which can be adjusted for). I bought them because they looked good, felt good, had great ergonomics, etc.

Cables are accessories - to me. Maybe others will disagree, but what’s the harm in trying EQ and seeing how big a change a cable would have to make to achieve what they are looking for?

Believe me I am envious of folks that can't hear differences in using cables on an IEM. That would save me so much money.

In the end it is about getting a sound that suits the person. Whether EQ or cables. I use a bit of EQing on some of my sources. Nothing wrong with that. EQing is a fine art infact.

 

[jsmiller58]

Believe me I am envious of folks that can't hear differences in using cables on an IEM. That would save me so much money.

In the end it is about getting a sound that suits the person. Whether EQ or cables. I use a bit of EQing on some of my sources. Nothing wrong with that. EQing is a fine art infact.

You miss my point. Even if someone can tell the difference with wires, they should get a sense of just how much a difference wires will have to make before going off and spending money relatively blindly.

If you believe that wires make a difference you should be asking people what specifically needs to change and by how much before giving them advice. Imagine going to a doctor, telling them that you are not feeling well, and having them prescribe you something without the doctor diving into details… you wouldn’t accept that, would you?

 

[Dsnuts]

Well the biggest differnces for me at least comes from tonal changes from using other cables. No one has to use any of the cable match ups I post about on the thread. Heck I mentioned several times there are some folks here that will prefer the stock included cables just fine. All I am doing is for "cable believers." posting how I percieve the changes in tonal, timbral, note weight, fullness of sound, imaging, stage perception. How that changes a bit/subtle with how I am hearing it with certain cable pair ups.

Reason why I post more cable match ups with the TSMR-X is due to folks asking me all the time through DMs what cable works with this and that. Which aligns with what they are seeking from the sound profile. Truth is cables don't drastically change the tuning for an IEM but it can help highlight certain areas that a person feels could be a bit smoother, the treble on the TSMR-X for example. Or want a cable to help highlight the mids which are secondary to the bass and the treble on the TSMR-X. Which admitedly would be easier with EQing but. Many folks dont like to use EQ.

If any of you guys dont believe in cable pair ups than take my postes with a grain and pinch of salt. It is most definitely for folks that spend a lot of money on cables due to being able to hear differences. Not so much for folks that dont. Again I would love to be able to not notice a darn thing between included stock cable and my cables but unfortunately I do and so does a lot of folks that read what I write. But I am glad you brought attention to it.

 

[PeacockObscura]

This cable matches aesthetically and sounds great with a bonus it's cheap.

 

[jsmiller58]

Well the biggest differnces for me at least comes from tonal chances from using other cables. No one has to use any of the cable match ups I post about on the thread. Heck I mentioned several times there are some folks here that will prefer the stock included cables just fine. All I am doing is for "cable believers." posting how I percieve the changes in tonal, timbral, note weight, fullness of sound, imaging, stage perception. How that changes a bit/subtle with how I am hearing it with certain cable pair ups.

Reason why I post more cable match ups with the TSMR-X is due to folks asking me all the time through DMs what cable works with this and that. Which aligns with what they are seeking from the sound profile. Truth is cables don't drastically change the tuning for an IEM but it can help highlight certain areas that a person feels could be a bit smoother, the treble on the TSMR-X for example. Or want a cable to help highlight the mids which are secondary to the bass and the treble on the TSMR-X. Which admitedly would be easier with EQing but. Many folks dont like to use EQ.

If any of you guys dont believe in cable pair ups than take my postes with a grain and pinch of salt. It is most definitely for folks that spend a lot of money on cables due to being able to hear differences. Not so much for folks that dont. Again I would love to be able to not notice a darn thing between included stock cable and my cables but unfortunately I do and so does a lot of folks that read what I write. But I am glad you brought attention to it.

I have no doubt you mean well, and you are trying to help. But I am certain that what you like might not match what someone else likes.

By asking them how big a change they need and in what areas you can move from giving them subjective advice that might cost them a lot and not give them what they are looking for to something that is more objective…. You can even compare your desired EQ changes to what cables get you closest, and then judge if your cable suggestions help others based on how similar or different their EQ required changes are.

Otherwise the conversation more or less devolves to, “I spent $X00 on this cable. Try it.” Yes, I know that there are more words around it, but, come on, it’s not even a secret that we all use basic terms like treble, mids, bass, sub-bass differently, and when one person says they need a little adjustment and others say they need a large adjustment without understanding the actual dB and frequencies, probably everyone is talking about different things. Not to mention the differences from hearing health, personal preferences, etc.

People are sincerely looking to you as a source of advice. Maybe the extra steps will help you give them quality advice. Maybe a cable will make precisely the change the other person needs. But maybe it won’t. There are ways for your advice to help.

 

[Sheeno101]

You miss my point. Even if someone can tell the difference with wires, they should get a sense of just how much a difference wires will have to make before going off and spending money relatively blindly.

If you believe that wires make a difference you should be asking people what specifically needs to change and by how much before giving them advice. Imagine going to a doctor, telling them that you are not feeling well, and having them prescribe you something without the doctor diving into details… you wouldn’t accept that, would you?

I think the crux of it comes down to expected audiences. People enthusiastically post here about expensive cables and DACs because they view it as a community of likeminded people, and so want to discuss these items and recommend them to other people who perceive sonic differences in these things and who therefore share their passion (and, apparently, levels of disposable income!). And I don't think they're wrong in doing that - this forum seems to be the go-to place for people who think this way to participate in these discussions, and I'm not sure anyone has a duty of care for what other people decide to do with their money after reading their recommendations in the community.

That said, I do also agree with the spirit of what you say, as I am a bit uneasy about the continual public endorsement of expensive equipment that has yet to show any measurable difference, which I personally also cannot reproducibly perceive any differences in (reproducibly being the key word there). It is particularly tricky for brands like Penon, as this forum is one of the few places you can go for information and opinions on their products, meaning that many people not that deep in the hobby may find themselves funnelled here for information, as I was.

The best solution I can think of at the moment would be if Head-Fi did more at the top level to inform about the most sensible places to put their money from a SQ perspective, as well as raising awareness about more sensible (IMO) solutions like EQ - whether through banners, stickied posts about cost-effective spending in the hobby, etc. This would have to be in the forum itself though, as many people find their way here without ever looking at the homepage. Then the forum threads could be as they are now for people to freely discuss their passions, whilst hopefully making sure that people who are outside of the community are better informed when they are exposed to the more controversial parts of the hobby. But it's a tricky situation to navigate really.

 

[jsmiller58]

I think the crux of it comes down to expected audiences. People enthusiastically post here about expensive cables and DACs because they view it as a community of likeminded people, and so want to discuss these items and recommend them to other people who perceive sonic differences in these things and who therefore share their passion (and, apparently, levels of disposable income!). And I don't think they're wrong in doing that - this forum seems to be the go-to place for people who think this way to participate in these discussions, and I'm not sure anyone has a duty of care for what other people decide to do with their money after reading their recommendations in the community.

That said, I do also agree with the spirit of what you say, as I am a bit uneasy about the continual public endorsement of expensive equipment that has yet to show any measurable difference, which I personally also cannot reproducibly perceive any differences in (reproducibly being the key word there). It is particularly tricky for brands like Penon, as this forum is one of the few places you can go for information and opinions on their products, meaning that many people not that deep in the hobby may find themselves funnelled here for information, as I was.

The best solution I can think of at the moment would be if Head-Fi did more at the top level to inform about the most sensible places to put their money from a SQ perspective, as well as raising awareness about more sensible (IMO) solutions like EQ - whether through banners, stickied posts about cost-effective spending in the hobby, etc. This would have to be in the forum itself though, as many people find their way here without ever looking at the homepage. Then the forum threads could be as they are now for people to freely discuss their passions, whilst hopefully making sure that people who are outside of the community are better informed when they are exposed to the more controversial parts of the hobby. But it's a tricky situation to navigate really.

Yeah, I absolutely can understand what you are saying. I guess I was advocating for the people coming here for information from those with more experience versus those who are coming to share their passions with each other. It would be nice if the posts that were about passion had a label that was different than the posts with information

 

[emdeevee]

I have no doubt you mean well, and you are trying to help. But I am certain that what you like might not match what someone else likes.

By asking them how big a change they need and in what areas you can move from giving them subjective advice that might cost them a lot and not give them what they are looking for to something that is more objective…. You can even compare your desired EQ changes to what cables get you closest, and then judge if your cable suggestions help others based on how similar or different their EQ required changes are.

Otherwise the conversation more or less devolves to, “I spent $X00 on this cable. Try it.” Yes, I know that there are more words around it, but, come on, it’s not even a secret that we all use basic terms like treble, mids, bass, sub-bass differently, and when one person says they need a little adjustment and others say they need a large adjustment without understanding the actual dB and frequencies, probably everyone is talking about different things. Not to mention the differences from hearing health, personal preferences, etc.

People are sincerely looking to you as a source of advice. Maybe the extra steps will help you give them quality advice. Maybe a cable will make precisely the change the other person needs. But maybe it won’t. There are ways for your advice to help.

But we're not really a public service though it might be a great source for information. He is responding to people like me who do hear differences in our iems from cables. And that, too, may be of some use to folks who find their way here.

While I agree that eq is quite effective, it's a tool that not everyone uses. DAPs have "bit perfect" playback and EQing can be complicated. There are recommended EQs for a lot of iems from experts who really know how to eq.

Cables can also be a fun and aesthetic change for those who are interested. In my experience, this is one of the few places where "cable believers" can express their opinions without being criticized.

If you have figured out EQs that work with X, I would love to hear them, please post the settings.

 

[iscorpio71]

This cable matches aesthetically and sounds great with a bonus it's cheap.

They look

I've ordered, and hope that they'll tame the treble... otherwise I'll most likely be selling them.

 

[jsmiller58]

But we're not really a public service though it might be a great source for information. He is responding to people like me who do hear differences in our iems from cables. And that, too, may be of some use to folks who find their way here.

While I agree that eq is quite effective, it's a tool that not everyone uses. DAPs have "bit perfect" playback and EQing can be complicated. There are recommended EQs for a lot of iems from experts who really know how to eq.

Cables can also be a fun and aesthetic change for those who are interested. In my experience, this is one of the few places where "cable believers" can express their opinions without being criticized.

If you have figured out EQs that work with X, I would love to hear them, please post the settings.

Regardless of my personal opinion of the auditory benefits of cables, what I was looking for was a way to help people figure out what cables would help them if they wanted to go that route. Basically have people identify the changes they want and then help them match those EQ changes to cables that would give them that sound. Seems very strange to me that people provide cable recommendations without really understanding the actual changes someone wants. More sub bass, more intoxicating mids, or less treble, are not very helpful because we all use audio terms differently, and what does “more” or “less” really mean in terms of describing what’s desired? EQ could help put numbers on what people are looking to achieve, and then those numbers could be matched to the cable that comes closest. Obviously, if someone found that EQ came closer to what they were looking for than a cable it could save them money, but that’s between them and their wallet.

But, as @Sheeno101 mentioned in their post, trying to find a best match between cable and sound in an objective way is not what’s going on here. Instead it is folks who really have a passion for cables who are swapping recommendations without being very specific about what they’re looking for. That’s of course perfectly ok, I just worry about the neophyte walking in and getting advice that they can’t properly interpret. I was once that newbie who spent money based on reading these forums only to find that what people “felt” was good advice maybe wasn’t right for me… and I suspect many others here had similar experiences starting out in this hobby.

 

[Thieme]

I was once that newbie who spent money based on reading these forums only to find that what people “felt” was good advice maybe wasn’t right for me… and I suspect many others here had similar experiences starting out in this hobby.

Not trying to be mean or anything but I do think that is on you. Somehow people expect disclaimers under every opinion online and that is a bit tiring. In a while there will be so many disclaimers you won't read them anyways anymore. I also don't think it is bad to try out some stuff for yourself after doing your own research and after determining how much money you want to spend. Dsnuts and other people can say so much but you have to take your own budgeting and your own situation and preferences in mind.
When I came to this forum and read about cables I was like "really??" But I got curious so I ended up buying some for me expensive $80 cable just to see if I could hear the difference. It ended up I can hear some difference but I am not able to really describe said difference in words like some other guys are able to and in the end I realized that for me personally in my financial situation the difference isn't big enough? But for everyone this is different. My next try will be the $400 TSMR-X I guess I will be able to pick up on differences over my other much more cheap IEMs but will it be worth it compared to my others IEMs that cost 7 times less? It is just interesting, a journey of self exploration but as I said before, to not regret anything do your own research, don't trust blindly and make sure you do not buy above your budget.

 

[Dave657]

There're other things that EQ'uing can't replicate and cables do, like warmer/analytical for example. If you don't believe it it's fine but for some might be useful, like me.

Cheers

 

[Sheeno101]

There're other things that EQ'uing can't replicate and cables do, like warmer/analytical for example. If you don't believe it it's fine but for some might be useful, like me.

Cheers

Regardless of whether or not cables change sound, I have to disagree that EQ cannot be used to create the presentation of a warmer or more analytical sound. I have warmer and more technical profiles for most of my IEMs, and will often change between them depending on the song.

 

[Dave657]

Regardless of whether or not cables change sound, I have to disagree that EQ cannot be used to create the presentation of a warmer or more analytical sound. I have warmer and more technical profiles for most of my IEMs, and will often change between them depending on the song.

Fair, but there are other examples like clarity, microdetail that i don't think that EQ replicates but that's my opinion. My point was that i value any input of cable synergies with IEMs.

ps: i don't speak english fluently/not native so forgive me if there're any spelling mistakes

 

[jsmiller58]

Not trying to be mean or anything but I do think that is on you. Somehow people expect disclaimers under every opinion online and that is a bit tiring. In a while there will be so many disclaimers you won't read them anyways anymore.

That is fair. I have been in this hobby for a while and spent tens of thousands of dollars in it so I have tried a lot of things and learned a lot of those lessons myself. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford that journey, but for some people spending a few hundred dollars on an IEM is a stretch, and then to spend nearly as much on a cable is a really big deal to them, so I instinctively react negatively to some of this - that’s just my personality. While I am worried for those who may get caught up in the excitement but not be able to afford it, I’ll step back from my comments on this.