[jasswolf]

I mean, objectively the 580 has a great price performance ratio. I can't tell you what your tastes are though.

Just keen to know how noticeably recessed the mid-range is, and how the timbre/tone of the headphone presents due to the plastic enclosure. Ideally I'd be looking at something a little mid-forward or neutral with a wide soundstage, textured bass and mids plus clear treble, but I don't have $1000s to spend on the habit.

 

[]eep]

I wonder where you get those prices from... nor all those other ideas. Calm your mind and just get the HF 580. Get the 95mm sheepskin pads and forget all your worries.

As far as recession in the mids... I really have no idea what you are talking about. Music always starts in the vocal range and expands from there. I really, really dislike bassy or trebly headphones (bass-heads are idiots imho). I've always been very critical on the headphones I buy and the HF 580 are really the best I ever had. I never dreamed I would ever be able to buy some planars in this affordable price range. If the mids would be recessed then they would be faulty in my book.

I don't know the AKG 371 but I own the 701. These were always a dream for me until the prices came down. Still a true classic but they ended up mainly looking pretty in my showcase. They lack bass and the headband gives me headaches. The 371 is closed and has bass accordingly, but is no way in the same league. Just like I loved my DT880 but not the 990. The Takstar has the speed and space of the 701 but with real bass to go with it. It has the midrange of the DT880 but with extended and super fast treble (ie not louder but better) and bass that is fast and extends way further.

Music or sound is not just about frequency curves but also about time issues. Just like the old-fashioned idea of space being 3D is overtaken by the notion that it is a space-time continuum. Phase integrity, rise and decay times, stored energy, these are all time related issues. Dynamic and electrostatic/planar drivers have different ways of handling this. I also bought a 50mm berillium driver Msur N350 on a whim (for only €40!) and even though it's a closed dynamic driver it's the best and most enjoyable and practical dynamic driver I ever had. But a good planar with good amplification goes beyond that.

Mind you; with the HF 580 you can hear everything. You will hear things in the music you know well that you never heard (I did). That's the positive side. But you can also tell the difference in source, conversion and amplification. Like I said in a previous post, I really regained my appreciation for MY filterless R2R dac and OTL tube amp.

 

[chaotic_angel]

The conversation on these has thrown me in a spin... I still can't get a grasp on its value in the current market. Interested to get some thoughts based on what I've been looking at and the prices I can get them for (in USD):

Takstar HF-580 - $115, plus Monoprice/Aiva pads ($8-$25) - slight v-shape, high-treble roll-off
HiFiMAN HE4XX - $115 (sale and coupon) - mid-focused, slightly bright but lacking detail
AKG K371 - $127 - Harman target attempt, slight sub-bass boost
Sennheiser HD6XX - $163 - Sennheiser take on something a tad mid-forward of neutral, but with high treble roll-off

and just to spice things up a bit:
HiFiMan Sundara - $340 - tries to clean up the issues of the 400 with slightly more bass (or the 500 series but with better mids)

This is what I understand so far (and feel free to correct me):

Bass: K371 > HF-580 > Sundara > HD6XX > HE4XX
Mids: HD6XX = K371 > Sundara = HE4XX = HF-580
Treble: HD6XX > HF-580 = K371 > Sundara = HE4XX
Soundstage: Sundara = HE4XX >>> HF-580 > HD6XX > K371
Imaging: Sundara = HF-580 > HE4XX > K371 > HD6XX
Clarity: Sundara > HF-580 > K371 > HD6XX > HE4XX

Where I'm confused is the tone/timbre of all of these presentations, and exactly how far the HF-580 sits back in its delivery of the mids, i.e. how natural sounding they are, and how recessed they are overall in the mix.

Where I get even more confused, is when I see graphs of the Aiva, the B20 and the HF-580. Same driver, but the Aiva seems to match up well against the Sundara save for toning down the brightness and dialling up the brilliance and air, while the B20 seems to be a planar take on the HD6XX's signature. The HF-580 then basically combines the Blon's sub-bass quantity and its treble roll off, with a closer approximation to the Aiva the rest of the FR curve.

So from all of that, the choices should be between the K371, the HD6XX and the HF-580, but that speaks nothing to the impact of the enclosures or how natural the sound is, and which sound signature is worth targeting the most. I feel like if the mids are good enough in presentation and timbre, it otherwise combines the best of the other two, just with superior imaging and soundstage.

Is the price to performance there against the other two, or am I losing my mind?

I have HE4xx, T50RP MK3 & HF580
I am using my topping DX7s & Xduoo XD05plus (Burson opamp) all using stock cable & pads

HE4xx is the most warm overall
HF580 i can say it is "fun" sounding - no need critical listening to conclude.
T50RP MK3 is the brightest and less bass

 

[jasswolf]

I wonder where you get those prices from... nor all those other ideas. Calm your mind and just get the HF 580. Get the 95mm sheepskin pads and forget all your worries.

Haha! I was definitely exaggerating my stress levels, just trying to wrap my head around what would be the next good buy. I have the ability to audition the K371, HD6XX and the Sundara. The prices are because I am a ruthless bargain hunter that knows when, where and how much sales can be.

As far as recession in the mids... I really have no idea what you are talking about. Music always starts in the vocal range and expands from there. I really, really dislike bassy or trebly headphones (bass-heads are idiots imho). I've always been very critical on the headphones I buy and the HF 580 are really the best I ever had. I never dreamed I would ever be able to buy some planars in this affordable price range. If the mids would be recessed then they would be faulty in my book.

Good to know! I've read that they are slightly recessed (and you can see this on the graph) and hollow (but that pads change cleans this part up) but you seem to have a decent grasp over how they compare.

I don't know the AKG 371 but I own the 701. These were always a dream for me until the prices came down. Still a true classic but they ended up mainly looking pretty in my showcase. They lack bass and the headband gives me headaches. The 371 is closed and has bass accordingly, but is no way in the same league. Just like I loved my DT880 but not the 990. The Takstar has the speed and space of the 701 but with real bass to go with it. It has the midrange of the DT880 but with extended and super fast treble (ie not louder but better) and bass that is fast and extends way further.

Again, great info! This is exactly what I'm looking for.

Music or sound is not just about frequency curves but also about time issues. Just like the old-fashioned idea of space being 3D is overtaken by the notion that it is a space-time continuum. Phase integrity, rise and decay times, stored energy, these are all time related issues. Dynamic and electrostatic/planar drivers have different ways of handling this. I also bought a 50mm berillium driver Msur N350 on a whim (for only €40!) and even though it's a closed dynamic driver it's the best and most enjoyable and practical dynamic driver I ever had. But a good planar with good amplification goes beyond that.

Yup, 100% aware of the resulting speed of the driver and how that impacts imaging, was just keen to learn how impactful this is without the natural tonal quality that comes from a wooden enclosure.

Mind you; with the HF 580 you can hear everything. You will hear things in the music you know well that you never heard (I did). That's the positive side. But you can also tell the difference in source, conversion and amplification. Like I said in a previous post, I really regained my appreciation for MY filterless R2R dac and OTL tube amp.

I'm using a Khadas Tone Board and a JDS Atom, so my biggest long-term issue is the op-amp metrics vs. discrete amp subjectives debate. I don't get too picky about my sources, accept that there's no one perfect headphone, and just ride out any issues. Presently I'm alternating between the OKCSC ZX1 and the Takstar Pro 82 (yes, I'm developing a Chi-Fi habit), but I actually had a chance to grab the AKG Q701 for a little over US $70 last year, brand new.

I suppose if I hate the impact of the enclosure so much, I can just research how to source the unit SIVGA/Sendy/BLON have used and tune it to that in due course, and I'll probably still save hundreds. Thanks for all the info!

 

[]eep]

Haha! I was definitely exaggerating my stress levels, just trying to wrap my head around what would be the next good buy. I have the ability to audition the K371, HD6XX and the Sundara. The prices are because I am a ruthless bargain hunter that knows when, where and how much sales can be.


Good to know! I've read that they are slightly recessed (and you can see this on the graph) and hollow (but that pads change cleans this part up) but you seem to have a decent grasp over how they compare.


Again, great info! This is exactly what I'm looking for.


Yup, 100% aware of the resulting speed of the driver and how that impacts imaging, was just keen to learn how impactful this is without the natural tonal quality that comes from a wooden enclosure.


I'm using a Khadas Tone Board and a JDS Atom, so my biggest long-term issue is the op-amp metrics vs. discrete amp subjectives debate. I don't get too picky about my sources, accept that there's no one perfect headphone, and just ride out any issues. Presently I'm alternating between the OKCSC ZX1 and the Takstar Pro 82 (yes, I'm developing a Chi-Fi habit), but I actually had a chance to grab the AKG Q701 for a little over US $70 last year, brand new.

I suppose if I hate the impact of the enclosure so much, I can just research how to source the unit SIVGA/Sendy/BLON have used and tune it to that in due course, and I'll probably still save hundreds. Thanks for all the info!

I tried to listen if I could hear any negatives about the 'plastic' enclosure (plastic sounds like it's made of recycled shoppingbags but that hardly does it justice. The HF 580 looks sooo much better than the plastic parts on my Dt880). . At first I thought I could hear a distinct 'cuppiness' but later I couldn't reproduce it. That's why I said source and amping is important, objectively I can't point to the HF 580 as the culprit.

I was thinking about some changes inside with damping etc but my latest mods on the Msur N350 didn't work at all like I expected, so I'm holding off modding the HF 580. At least until I find some good 2.5mm sockets to make it accept a balanced chord. Then I'll do the rest too. Maybe.

 

[stimuz]

I tried to listen if I could hear any negatives about the 'plastic' enclosure (plastic sounds like it's made of recycled shoppingbags but that hardly does it justice. The HF 580 looks sooo much better than the plastic parts on my Dt880). . At first I thought I could hear a distinct 'cuppiness' but later I couldn't reproduce it. That's why I said source and amping is important, objectively I can't point to the HF 580 as the culprit.

I was thinking about some changes inside with damping etc but my latest mods on the Msur N350 didn't work at all like I expected, so I'm holding off modding the HF 580. At least until I find some good 2.5mm sockets to make it accept a balanced chord. Then I'll do the rest too. Maybe.

yea tapping the plastic cups feels almost metallic. dunno if they just did a really good lacquer job or what, but it ain't brittle feeling at all

 

[Yupp]

I tried to remove the back grills because I think it is hurting the sound, but the back grill is glued with a plastic ring that is also used for the screw holes. So, I have not found a way (other than cutting them out) to cleanly replace the grills with something finer and more open.

Yes I agree! Surprised no one else is working on this.

The grill material looks identical to the HE-4xx which modders largely agree improve significantly with the grills either removed or replaced with something with higher air/metal ratio. My HE-4xx sounded wrong till I replaced the grill: sound seemed to come from behind and below my ears before replacement; I can't reliably remember what the other differences were.

Currently my HF580s (about 100 hours of burn in) have a similar 'behind-me' quality, and it's plausible the hollowness is reflection off the grill. My first reaction was that they sounded weird and confined. Presently I prefer the HE-4xx (grill mod, stock pads) because the soundstage somehow feels less confined (not wider, perhaps deeper?) and better sub bass (yes, I'm waiting for the HF580 replacement sheepskin pads), though the Hf580 has noticeable slightly sharper image definition and clarity.

I've tentatively tried to lift the HF580s outer silver plastic ring but it doesn't move like the HE-4xx outer ring (which holds its grill in place).

Perhaps someone who has already dismantled theirs can try?

 

[stimuz]

Yes I agree! Surprised no one else is working on this.

The grill material looks identical to the HE-4xx which modders largely agree improve significantly with the grills either removed or replaced with something with higher air/metal ratio. My HE-4xx sounded wrong till I replaced the grill: sound seemed to come from behind and below my ears before replacement; I can't reliably remember what the other differences were.

Currently my HF580s (about 100 hours of burn in) have a similar 'behind-me' quality, and it's plausible the hollowness is reflection off the grill. My first reaction was that they sounded weird and confined. Presently I prefer the HE-4xx (grill mod, stock pads) because the soundstage somehow feels less confined (not wider, perhaps deeper?) and better sub bass (yes, I'm waiting for the HF580 replacement sheepskin pads), though the Hf580 has noticeable slightly sharper image definition and clarity.

I've tentatively tried to lift the HF580s outer silver plastic ring but it doesn't move like the HE-4xx outer ring (which holds its grill in place).

Perhaps someone who has already dismantled theirs can try?

I have on my second pair. You just slip a small flathead and twist, if you do it carefully you might be able to reuse the silver ring. I didn't care and cracked one side then got the other off at intact.

 

[Yupp]

I have on my second pair. You just slip a small flathead and twist, if you do it carefully you might be able to reuse the silver ring. I didn't care and cracked one side then got the other off at intact.

Nice... I assume you were also able to remove the grills and have a listen? Before I risk it, can you let us know if it makes an audible difference?

 

[stimuz]

Nice... I assume you were also able to remove the grills and have a listen? Before I risk it, can you let us know if it makes an audible difference?

Nope, haha. I did it on my pair I started a cable mod on but didn't finish. Someday I'll stop being lazy.

Well giving it a try now with Aiva pads. The biggest first thing I notice is that they are very open without the grill + screen. Like, open as in absolutely 0 isolation I can hear my fingers rubbing gently together at max arms length. Dunno how I feel about that. Bass still good, mids might be better. I don't have measurements.

Just know that although you can probably reglue the ring, you will likely lose some of the legs they have glued on the inside unless you carefully undo each of those from the inside of the cup.

https://imgur.com/JGpBIKa circled in red, the ones I snapped off and bottom right is one that came out. It's got like a silicon adhesive, you can push them out using a small flathead screwdriver if you have the patience.

 

[Yupp]

Nope, haha. I did it on my pair I started a cable mod on but didn't finish. Someday I'll stop being lazy.

No worries, I know that feeling too well. I'm also stingy which is why I'd rather someone else risk wrecking theirs first, hehe... Well at least someone who can better afford it.

 

[stimuz]

No worries, I know that feeling too well. I'm also stingy which is why I'd rather someone else risk wrecking theirs first, hehe... Well at least someone who can better afford it.

If you're careful its reversible. The driver itself has dust screens on both sides and from what I can tell from... like 15 minutes of listening SQ does improve at least to my liking. But again, it's subjective and I have no measurements, dig off the retaining ring at your own risk. But I can say if you have any sort of ambient noise including like a pc fan, you will hear it with the headphones on with no grills+filters on. It's really, really open.

 

[Yupp]

If you're careful its reversible. The driver itself has dust screens on both sides and from what I can tell from... like 15 minutes of listening SQ does improve at least to my liking. But again, it's subjective and I have no measurements, dig off the retaining ring at your own risk.

I would be very surprised if it didn't sound better. I might have a try later this week when I'm not busy... Zzz.

 

[stimuz]

I would be very surprised if it didn't sound better. I might have a try later this week when I'm not busy... Zzz.

Should wait for someone with measuring equipment before you tear yours up. Also interestingly the grills have a metal screen filter actually fused onto it.

https://imgur.com/wB5e7YC

 

[jasswolf]

I have HE4xx, T50RP MK3 & HF580
I am using my topping DX7s & Xduoo XD05plus (Burson opamp) all using stock cable & pads

HE4xx is the most warm overall
HF580 i can say it is "fun" sounding - no need critical listening to conclude.
T50RP MK3 is the brightest and less bass

Thanks again for this info, though I forgot to ask: are your Fostexs modded?