[upstateguy]

Quote:

I told you yesterday. IMO they are a step up from the D7000. The 7000 are darker sounding have warmth and are a great headphone. The bass on the D7000 is more deep no question. The T1 are not anemic in bass. I heard live last night the Philadelphia Orchestra with Chris Botti. The acoustic bass heard live was what I heard in the T1 with acoustic bass. If your suggesting the T1 are bright it's the internet radio you are listening too. I hear a very dynamic not bright and very musical issues. I have not static issue and these are my opinions. If you dislike yours so much sell them. As we all hear different and have different music preferences. I will say the T1 to me and my ears is a great headphone. The D7000 is also a great closed can that I enjoy very much. In the end for me it will be the T1 and the D7000 as my two main cans Evidently you prefer your 650 more and seem to not like the T1 so you should sell it instead of torturing yourself.

 
I wish it was that simple Frank...
 
I have a ton of music on my HD and like you, I have records and CDs from before the computer.  IIRC, SL and MH agreed that the basic sound signature of the T-1 was that of the 880 and that's a bright sound no matter how you cut it.
 
And hey, it's only hobby, there's no torture.....  it's fun.

 
click to enlarge

 

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

 
I wish it was that simple Frank...
 
I have a ton of music on my HD and like you, I have records and CDs from before the computer.  IIRC, SL and MH agreed that the basic sound signature of the T-1 was that of the 880 and that's a bright sound no matter how you cut it.
 
And hey, it's only hobby, there's no torture.....  it's fun.

 
click to enlarge

 

And for all who said it was bright I can also tell you there are more who said not including some who gave opinions that I respect very much. I have never heard the 880 so I cant comment but to me and my ears I would not classify the T1 as bright. But as I said everyone is different.  Right now YoYo Ma plays Ennio Morricone Sacd super sound.
 

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

And for all who said it was bright I can also tell you there are more who said not including some who gave opinions that I respect very much. I have never heard the 880 so I cant comment but to me and my ears I would not classify the T1 as bright. But as I said everyone is different.  Right now YoYo Ma plays Ennio Morricone Sacd super sound.
 

 
I guess we all hear differently....  do you consider your 701s bright?
 
USG
 

 

[Frank I]

Yes the 701 are bright to me. They can have some harsh tremble on certain recordings. No way would I say the 701 are dark and can be bright on some recordings. I also believe for the money they are great cans but clearly the T1 is much better as are the D7000 and should be. It would be nice to see AKG come up with a reference can but I think since Harmon owns them it will not happen.

 

[pataburd]

I re-tubed the Bada with 1x Sylvania "Bad Boy" and 2x RCA 6SN7GT.  Very smooth, liquidy and spacious, with slight concessions in the bass extension and drive departments.
 
Am definitely getting hum when I touch the tip of the T1 jack to the inside wall of the female socket in the PH-12.  Given their 600 ohms rated impedance, the volume knob is backed off by an hour or an hour and a half with the T1 compared to the DT880/600 at comparable SPL.
 
Having foresworn reaching for the DT880/600, I put on some country recordings from 1960 and, surprisingly, I did not hear any stridency on par with what I was getting yesterday, even with Cowboy Copas' "Alabam'".  The T1 certainly wasn't masking the flagrant shortcomings of these recordings, but at the same time the Beyers managed to deliver a predominantly revelatory and musical rendition.  Johnny Horton's "North to Alaska" sounded very smooth, warm and hash-free.
 
Not doing any immediate a/b-ing with the DT880/600 is helping.  However, I can still detect some of what I call "treble shear" around Hank Snow's and Hank Thompson's voices on "Miller's Cave" and "Six Pack to Go", respectively.  It's like when you were a kid and outlined the pictures in your coloring book with bold crayon before filling inside the lines.  There's a ringy perception of constraint where the treble drops off along a thin airless edge, with nothing to carry it any further.  
 
The DT880/600 have more of a sense of air in their treble, closer to the DT880/'03, which I prefer, than do the T1.  The T1, although plentifully detailed, still have a more rounded, circumscribed sound compared to the DT880/600, closer to that of the DT880/250 (2005).
 
I'll try the T1 out on my HD-841/AMC XIA SS rig maybe later on today.  So far, I've tried the all tube WeeeeeeSquirrel DV336SE and the hybrid Fitz-Maxxed Bada PH-12.  The DV336SE and the DT880/600 match very well, by the way.
  

 

[Frank I]

Patrick I do not or never have heard the 880 series so I really would not know the differences. I am glad you are doing the comparison which will help me in the long run to know if the T1 is a keeper. I really do like what I hear on them. It is very revealing and very transparent as are all my cans. The biggest thing I hear over my 701 is better bass and more refinement. I need to start AB both the 701 over the next week as well as the D7000 to be specific about what I am hearing. I may end up keeping all of them. I guess when you are looking at this kind of money it really depends on if the differences are worth the investment or not. I would say the T1 is noy worth the 1300.00 and probably should have been a 700-800 list but as long as they are selling who knows. One thing would suck for sure if next year these start dropping in price big time. But price aside I think they are better than the 701 and the D7000 in relative transparency and total sound. Keep posting your thoughts.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 
What puzzles me the most is how you can classify these cans as "warm" relative to your 7000s ? 

 
USG

Well the treble is not as bright on the T1s as it is on the D7000s to my ears and in my system.
 
The mid bass not doubt the D7000s are warmer, but the treble on the D7000s can lead one to call them brighter in that range.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 I have never heard the 880 so I cant comment but to me and my ears I would not classify the T1 as bright. But as I said everyone is different.  Right now YoYo Ma plays Ennio Morricone Sacd super sound.
 

I have heard/owned the 880s and they were certainly bright to my ears. But the T1s are slightly on the warm/lush side of neutral on my setup with my ears.

 

[pataburd]

Quote:

I have heard/owned the 880s and they were certainly bright to my ears. But the T1s are slightly on the warm/lush side of neutral on my setup with my ears.

The DT880/'03, while decried as overly bright by many head-fiers, were never bright to my ears on any of my set-ups, nor are or ever were the DT880/600.  

With my set-up, the DT880/600 definitely sound warmer and smoother than the T1.  The T1 impart a very precise, "cookie cutter" definition to things, which to my ears does not sound warm, or at least not as warm as the DT880/600.  
 
So, I would not characterize the T1 as warm headphones, either.  They have a bassy "glow" to them, but to me it is not an intensive bass quality (thereby disqualifying them from my definition of warm), rather an extensive bass quality.
 
I've personally never heard the D7000, but based on my experience with the D5000, I cannot imagine, given the present state of things, the T1 sounding smoother in the treble.  
 
It's statements like that from you, MH,--coupled with what seems to be an unusual humming phenomenon with my and USG's T1s and no one else's--which feed a recurring suspicion that my T1 and possibly USG's are somehow defective.  
 
Even with David Chesky's very well mastered "Club del Sol", the T1 still sound edgy here and there, despite my deliberate choice of a smoother- and mellower-than-normal tube set.
 
If I were to get a pair of DT880 having '03 housings fitted with 600 ohm drivers, I think I could live happily without the T1 at this point.  : )

 

[SleepyOne]

My pair too is warmish sounding. And I have that chesky recording and it runs just fine. In fact, it run like a dream with chesky ana caram, natural, spacy very nice. No way edgy. There must be some member in NY who may let you A-B compare to yours.

 

[pataburd]

Quote:

My pair too is warmish sounding. And I have that chesky recording and it runs just fine. In fact, it run like a dream with chesky ana caram, natural, spacy very nice. No way edgy. There must be some member in NY who may let you A-B compare to yours.

 
Now I wish Beyerdynamic would send me another pair to a/b with these.  : )  As I had said earlier, I don't think it unreasonable for me to expect the T1 to do everything the DT880/600 already can do, and then some.  Instead, my T1 are not up to snuff with my DT880/600 in warmth and smoothness. 
 
SO, I have that Chesky recording of Ana Caram "Bossa Nova", too: very nice.
 

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

 
Now I wish Beyerdynamic would send me another pair to a/b with these.  : )  As I had said earlier, I don't think it unreasonable for me to expect the T1 to do everything the DT880/600 already can, and then some.  Instead, my T1 are not up to snuff with my DT880/600 in warmth and smoothness. 
 
SO, I have that Chesky recording of Ana Caram "Bossa Nova", too: very nice.
 

Send them back to Beyer and see if they are defective. Call Beyer and tell them what you hear and maybe if they check it out and are defective you may get a new pair. Could be you just do not like them. Some people wont like them i am sure and your opinion is valid. Upstate just wants a perfected Senn 650 and he should look at the 800. Which can be more to his preference. I will post a detailed review after I spend another week or so and will do a side by side comparison to my other two reference cans. But I do not have the 880/600

 

[Shahrose]

I have a hard time believing that Beyer's TOTL $1300 hand-built headphones would have such gross sound defects and mismatch among units. I really do believe this is a matter of preference which relies heavily upon individual HRTF. No matter how cheap, I've never had a defective headphone out of the box and I've owned a quite a few. Beyer in particular has been renowned for its build quality and durability. There are lots of people who aren't impressed by the T1's sound, of which you're one of, and not because the headphone is broken IMO.

 

[SleepyOne]

You maybe surprised, my initial pair of DX1000 sounded pretty non musical to the point I was going to get rid of it. Luckily for me due to a minor cosmetic defect I was able to get a new replacement pair which turns out sounded different and so musical in comparison that I am now unwilling to part with it.... I guess my initial pair is a dud.
 
Of course, like you said, it could simply be that he doesn't like T1 which is fair enough, no headphone is suited to everyone.

 

[shane55]

 
Quote:

I really do believe this is a matter of preference which relies heavily upon individual HRTF. No matter how cheap, I've never had a defective headphone out of the box and I've owned a quite a few. Beyer in particular has been renowned for its build quality and durability. There are lots of people who aren't impressed by the T1's sound, of which you're one of, and not because the headphone is broken IMO.

Once you assume that someone has a modicum of knowledge regarding sound / music, etc., IMHO it's all HRTF. This whole thread, and pataburd's clear and specific observations have driven home two points and one or both are correct:
1) His HRTF has him hear the T1's differently than other individuals.
2) The T1's he has are defective.
 
I don't think it's a matter of 'preference' at this point. It's not so much what he prefers (although that is a sub-factor), his statements have been based on comparative observations, not so much on likes and dislikes... or so I've come to understand.
 
There have been several ocasions where I have found a particular HP hot or cold or bright or bassy or boomy or thin where someone else will find it just the opposite... and we're talking about the exact same can and similar comparative observations.
 
No right or wrong. If his T1's are functioning properly, there just may be something in the manner that the driver is angled (or whatever) that just produces a difference response to him than it does to others.
 
IMHO it's all HRTF.

 
shane
 
EDIT... Oh, and I too have had defective HP's. Rare, but these things happen.