[DRSpeed85]

I remain skeptical of this survey result. But even if it were true, interest in DAPs are diminishing very quickly. Its not just iPods that are losing interest, DAP as a whole IMO are becoming less popular than it used to be. Atleast here in college, that attention has moved to the Xbox 360, Wii and PS3. Realising that they can buy a next gen console instead of a fancy little dap has caused a mighty reality check among my peers.

 

[Nomada]

I have a feeling battery life will be what kills the chances of people buying this player. Many people will leave the wi-fi on all the time, coupled with all those settings for screen brighness, pretty user interface that people will like to play around with & very video friendly? Man, I won't be surprised if the battery will only last 5-6hrs. for the average user.

2nd gen. Zune may be worth looking at though. Apparently Microsoft is gonna build the device themselves from the ground up.

 

[sonick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by camille that being said, i'm still banking on buying an 80GB (or 60GB refurb) iPod soon. that or wait for the 6G (if it does come out).

If you're looking to buy a refurb 60gigger, I'd say keep an eye out on the refurb iPod store page, coz although they're sold out, they do pop back up once in awhile.

I recently cracked and ordered a black 60gig after seeing them out of stock for several weeks and showing up one day. They have quite low stock, coz shipping is taking awhile. Took about 5 business days to actually ship the iPod, and probably 5-7 more days for delivery (I'm in Vancouver as well).

Great deal though. Can't wait to get it. Hoping to get it by wednesday.

 

[Jokieman]

Microsoft is in a unique position here. A lot of people buy Ipods because of Itunes, not due to quality. (sad, but true).

If Microsoft can make the Zune with a better SQ. Maybe up the Ante on the flash players by offering 10-12-14 Gigabyte versions, I think they could compete very well.

The thing is, Both companies (Apple and Microsoft) Move like slugs, however, microsoft has proven with the Xbox 360 that it IS willing to do what it takes to compete against the competition.

Personally I'm hoping they give apple a run for their money because Apple has apparently decided with it's 88% market share that it can pretty much do what it wants, and their quality has suffered across the board. From the ipod hardware to the customer service, Apple has slipped several notches.

 

[sanity8me]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jokieman Microsoft is in a unique position here. A lot of people buy Ipods because of Itunes, not due to quality. (sad, but true). If Microsoft can make the Zune with a better SQ. Maybe up the Ante on the flash players by offering 10-12-14 Gigabyte versions, I think they could compete very well. The thing is, Both companies (Apple and Microsoft) Move like slugs, however, microsoft has proven with the Xbox 360 that it IS willing to do what it takes to compete against the competition. Personally I'm hoping they give apple a run for their money because Apple has apparently decided with it's 88% market share that it can pretty much do what it wants, and their quality has suffered across the board. From the ipod hardware to the customer service, Apple has slipped several notches.

exactly.

ipod lovers along with everyone else who dwells in this portable audio head-fi forum should pray that zune does good and makes apple lose a big chunk of that market share..

better competition = better quality products

unfortunately, and imo, it doesn't look too good for microsoft with this 1st generation of zune... hopefully i'm wrong.

 

[m_memmory]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanity8me unfortunately, and imo, it doesn't look too good for microsoft with this 1st generation of zune... hopefully i'm wrong.

I think that this 1st generation Zune will (in terms of sales/marketing/making money) fail rather spectacularly. But I'm not sure that will matter to Microsoft. If you look at the X-box then the original one was soundly beaten by the PS2 on pretty much every single attribute you care to compare.. but compare how the 360 is doing (I know the PS3 isn't available yet but that's not Microsofts fault)

If Microsoft are really in this for the long haul (which they suggest they are) then they don't really mind losing a small fortune on the 1st gen hardware (maybe even the 2nd gen too) but then they'll start making inroads and go from there. And really, I think Microsoft can afford to lose a bit of cash without noticing or being too bothered about it.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanity8me ipod lovers along with everyone else who dwells in this portable audio head-fi forum should pray that zune does good and makes apple lose a big chunk of that market share.. better competition = better quality products

Exactly, but what in MS's history makes you believe the Zune success will increase competition? You make it sound like two competitors is better than the one we have now, but there are currently many more than one choice. A MS success is likely (as many here and elsewhere have repeated) to be more a detriment to Creative, iRiver, iAudio, Sony, Samsung, Toshiba (after Zune 1st gen), SanDisk, Archos, etc. than Apple. If Zune succeeds (and as MS is already moving PlaysForSure, their "partner program," to the back burner, and making Zune player/store a complete closed system) your choices will likely shrink. While arguably MS gains should push Apple towards more innovation short term, lowering the numbers of competitors dramatically would likely have the opposite effect on the market as a whole long term.

 

[m_memmory]

What I think they are saying when they talk about competition is some company who can actually pose some serious competition to Apple. Many say that the iPod is the best portable player around and, having now used one for about 3 days, I will admit that it's good, but Creative, Cowon, etc aren't competition to Apple (at least not in the US and Europe) so Apple aren't under any real pressure to innovate and push the envelope of what a DAP is.

However Microsoft have the clout, the money and the brand name that can (eventually) be of some competition to Apple. Yes I agree that it will probably mean the end of the smaller companies being in the market (again in the US and Europe) and leave behind only the 2 main companies but they will actively be in competition with each other and might actually force each other to innovate. In that regard the competition will actually be wider.

Personally I'd have preferred for Cowon and Creative and Sandisk and all the others to have gotten more press and more customer awareness as then they could have (maybe should have) pushed Apple further and given them some competition. But then again if we're talking about what I'd have really liked to happen is for Rio to have not gone bust and been able to create something really great.

 

[jdimitri]

A little secret:
Most people have never heard of zune.. the ones that have- they probably own another sony product that causes them to get the news on email

Or heck, the i'm-so-sick-of-ipods crowd is growing pretty quickly

Now, who did they survey?

 

[pds6]

As to Creative, iRiver, iAudio, Sony, Samsung, Toshiba (after Zune 1st gen), SanDisk, Archos, etc. . . .

It seems to me that if they are to survive, they must develope a music browser (universal). If I could be assured of a platform that could store, catalog and deliver music, I would very seriously consider a dap other than an iPod.

For all the arguments concerning hardware on this site .... ITS THE SOFTWARE STUPID!

EDIT: Bill Clinton's 1992 election: "Its the economy stupid!". Just in case.

 

[m_memmory]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pds6 For all the arguments concerning hardware on this site .... ITS THE SOFTWARE STUPID!

Personally it was the reliance on software that turned me away from most players and turned me towards Cowon.. I wanted to be able to just plug and play and not have to bother with extra software when it came to filling my player.

I only now have an iPod as the insurance for replacing my X5 gave me no choice. And as much as iTunes is quite nice ... I'll be installing Rockbox as soon as it supports 5.5G iPods and then I'll be back to drag and drop again.

 

[pds6]

m_memmory says:
Quote:

I'll be installing Rockbox as soon as it supports 5.5G iPods and then I'll be back to drag and drop again.

You're a better man than I!

I just spent a good part of a weekend (and I was only half successful) loading a 80 gb 2.5 portable hdd. I truly cannot imagine finding, dragging and dropping onto a 60 gb dap on a regular bases. Life is too short.

 

[m_memmory]

All my audio is organised the way that I want onto my hard drive and whenever I add extra music it's only 1 new folder and it's not that tricky to add it in. What I do like with folder browsing is that I don't have to keep on top of all my ID3 tags and things and make sure that they are all totally perfect (which I find nigh on impossible to keep on top of)

In fact I'm still trying to work out where iTunes has decided a load of my audio has gone to (and the tags for Artist, Album & Song were totally correct) But each to their own and it's obvious to me that a lot of people really do like some software to aid them with uploading and what not.

I think what could've have really soured me when I got the iPod was the 12 hours it took to actually get any music at all onto my iPod (iTunes kept on crashing and nothing was transferring) no matter how good software is there will always be times when they don't work too well - whereas an external hard drive has never let me down.

All that being said I have to admit I'm very pleasantly surprised with iTunes - it's a lot better then the last time I checked it out (about 3-4 years ago)

 

[pds6]

m_memmory says:
Quote:

All that being said I have to admit I'm very pleasantly surprised with iTunes - it's a lot better then the last time I checked it out (about 3-4 years ago)

I started out with iTunes on a Mac. I now have over 150 genres and more than 200 smart lists. Every song is tagged.

If I have any problem with an iPod (which you do) or there is an update, I can easily reformate and reload. It is easy and painless. I think people that drag and drop don't reformate as much as they should and that may be the cause of some system issues.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m_memmory However Microsoft have the clout, the money and the brand name that can (eventually) be of some competition to Apple. Yes I agree that it will probably mean the end of the smaller companies being in the market (again in the US and Europe) and leave behind only the 2 main companies but they will actively be in competition with each other and might actually force each other to innovate. In that regard the competition will actually be wider.

If Apple is stagnating, then isn't this the perfect time for others (even small companies) to innovate and quickly make in roads? It's a fallacy the iPod is only about advertising, but even if true, Sony's always had the brand name and clout. Creative just got $100 million infusion to do with what they will. Even this poll is interpreted as iPod users aren't loyal and would switch if something better came along. So it's much more anyones game than people realize. That's the big difference in the occasional comparison between Apple DAP dominance and Microsofts OS dominance. Apple iPod growth was natural, still has much competition (so not a monopoly), and its lead could disappear quite quickly (remember Rio and Creative both held the top spots earlier).

Seriously would some of you sacrifice Creative, iRiver, Sony, etc. (at least in the States and Europe as you mentioned) just for better iPods? That's what it sounds like from the comments. Sacrifice the market for better products by Apple cause they're too lapse with their big share (and by implication, I guess, the whole market can't continue until they do - though that I don't understand). But when do two competitors ever create more innovation then six or ten long term? Film studios? Auto manufactures? Newspapers? I can't think of a single example except maybe when grouping gigantic funding is necessary. Space programs? Maybe, but seriously with Creatives "gift," Sonys might, and Samsung and SanDisks electronics connections, do you really think money and clout is what's standing in the way of innovation?

You've already indicated your (and many here) favorite manufacture, Rio, left the market due to not being able to compete with Apples margins. What was good about that? Did Creative and Apple suddenly innovate more? And MS has much deeper pockets than Apple. Apple didn't take a loss on the 1G iPod. MS could (though reports differ, they may not) take losses for years like on the XBox. How are these makers going to compete on that bottom line (which like Rio has little to do with innovation and in fact, when in trouble, R&D is often stripped first)?

And remember the PlaysForSure program was an integral part of many of these manufactures leverage against Apple and iTunes. If that was as good as MS stated, why did they have to effectively replaced it with a Zune only alternative (and if there are improvements why not incorporate it with PlaysForSure and the stores that support it)? Again this will hurt others far more than Apple.

I swear the worst possible scenario would be a battle between two heavy weights splitting the market down the center. Think of regional soda before Coke and Pepsi went head to head. Any room for those other competitors on the self now? Are four Mountain Dews innovation? You think Apple advertising is bad now? Just wait. Exclusive deals with retailers? Required end cap displays? It could get very ugly and about things far outside DAP innovation.

I'd rather take a few years of slow progress than a possible limit on innovation long term. Who knows where DAPs will go, but as a market it's still in its infancy. Now is not the time to make big mistakes.

That all said it's not that I think MS shouldn't be able to release a DAP. I just fear the ramifications for this market.