[Tgun5]

Sorry I was too vague with a different strokes statement. The real issue is that...........

There are a lot of variables in a store setting unless you take a lot of time to correct them. If you listened to a wall of woofers through a switcher, forget it. Add the variables of crossover setting, room placement, cables used, equipment used, the room itself, the gain setting, and what other speakers are in the room in close proximity to the mix. Dead speakers and woofers specifically amplify the ones that are being demonstrated as they act as passive drivers. A 10" sub with a 15" sub in close proximity could sound very bloaty with a 15" driver acting as a passive radiator.

Go to a store that has a wall of plasmas. You will most likely find the one that has the most profit to be the one they have tweaked. I’m not saying that this is true with woofers, but unless the salesman really wants to do a fair comparison, he will probably not take the time to set each and every woofer to the same settings. Then you would have to play the same music selections on each woofer. I owned a high-end store for 13 years. We had a room that was used only to bring equipment in one at a time to compare. It was a lot of work and you won’t find any stores that will do it today. I was a purist though and wanted my customers to be confident in their decision. Plus, it really wasn’t work when you enjoy it.

I can also tell you that when I was in Atlanta, I took my son to Tweeter to hear the Martin Logan Vantages. There was a wall of 4 Logan models among other choices that the salesman demonstrated with the same equipment. I wouldn’t have paid $1 for any of the speakers because they sounded just awful. I was able to compare them against each other though. Trouble is the best speaker in the house wouldn’t have been the Vantage because it was compromised. Too many speakers in the same room. Who knows what speaker wire, and a switcher? Give me a break. I know different though as the Vantage is an incredible speaker.

I have heard the PW2200 (owned it), the Seismic 10 (owned it) and the Servo 15 (in store). Using the very best interconnect and equipment, both of 2200 and Seismic were tight and controlled for music.

 

[warpdriver]

Well, I guess our opinions differ, because I heard what I heard, and the placement was pretty good, we moved the other subs out of the way, and put the sub into the same wall of the room which had a couple of tube traps. Maybe I'm more discerning and pushed them harder (I used some very demanding deep bass tracks, drum solos), because I could very clearly hear differences among the models, they didn't all sound "tight and controlled for music". Some sounded better than the other. Even my friend was very distracted and wasn't listening could tell the Servo was much better. The Ultracubes were the worst, they were fluttering under the load of my test tracks, and the PW2200 had a fatter midbass. The Servo sounded very flat, even below 30Hz where the others started to taper.

I'm quite aware that the sub/room interaction is a critical factor, but relatively speaking, they were very different sounding subs. I'm sure some of them could have benefitted from better placement (after all, I spent hours fine tuning my own room for my own sub). I've probably had at least a half dozen different subs go through my own room so I know how different they can be even when properly set up.

 

[Tgun5]

Warpdriver,

I'm not challenging your ears or your methods, just explaining that in order to accurately compare subs, the testing must be equal

For music, I believe a sub should be seen and not heard (so to speak). For music, you want a seamless transition to the point that you absolutely don't know a sub is there. Consequently, trying to audition a sub for music use is difficult because you have a speaker you are most likely unfamiliar with and you pump the sub's gain up to try to hear what it's doing.

I could control my demo to the point that if I wanted to, any particular sub could be made to sound better on any given day. I knew my room’s hot spots. And especially with tube traps or any other room/frequency controlling devices. Move the sub one foot to the left and you could be in frequency modulating hell.

And you admit that you probably pushed them harder. That’s alright, but notes at 40 and 50 cycles dropping into the 2 ohm arena suck up far more juice than a subs amp can really produce. 1000 watts is nothing at higher volumes in a large room. That in itself could cause tubby bass.

Like I said – different strokes. Your way of comparing and mine are different, so the outcome will be as well. That’s what makes this hobby interesting

 

[Melchior]

If you're willing to do a little diy(and I do mean "little") consider of of Rythmik's DS12 kits. Rythmik Audio | products

If you can fashion your own cab this is best, I was planning on doing that but chickened out and just bought a Parts Express box, cut the two holes for driver and amp, and screwed them in. I didn't use the supplied screws for the amp, bought a small kit with hex bolts(~2 bucks) for a more professional look+ solid construction. The end result was a sub that gives the illusion of my MMG's extending down to subwoofer frequencies, it blends in that well.

 

[akwok]

Unfortunately I do not trust myself with DIY!

 

[Zuerst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akwok /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, now inching more towards an SVS PB12 Plus. Any thoughts? I'm just worried it might be too overkill for my 11x17 room.

Overkill? Nah... I'm pretty set on getting the SVS PC13-Ultra and that's just for my 18x13.5 living room... (ok the living room kinda go straight into 6x13.5 kitchen and dining area... that sort of go into a hall way and into a moderately sized room...)

But the cylinder form-factor is really awesome.

EDIT: AND I live in an apartment complex...

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuerst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Overkill? Nah... I'm pretty set on getting the SVS PC13-Ultra and that's just for my 18x13.5 living room... (ok the living room kinda go straight into 6x13.5 kitchen and dining area... that sort of go into a hall way and into a moderately sized room...) But the cylinder form-factor is really awesome. EDIT: AND I live in an apartment complex...

Yeah I'm using two Rocket UFW-10's in my tiny little office/studio.

I couldn't help myself though, Fitz was selling the second one too cheap to pass up. Eventually they'll be located in a larger space.

 

[classicalguy]

Does your office sound like one of those cars driving by that shakes the whole neighborhood?

 

[akwok]

I bought a Gallo TR-2 for about $400, since I wish to spend my remaining funds on a guitar.

Thanks for the advice everyone! I will post back when I integrate it into my system in April.

 

[tom hankins]

Congrats. Good luck setting it up, and I look forward to your impressions.