[jellybones]

I completely agree with this statement.

Quote:

I just don't think MOT ass-kissing is required, which has run amuck on this forum.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jellybones /img/forum/go_quote.gif I completely agree with this statement.

Okay, then why don't you back that up with telling us why you agree.

 

[SoFlaChris]

I don't know what it is about the ass kissing and vendors. I'm a member of a knife forum where vendors and members mingle just like here. The amount of "eHead" that they get from the members is disgusting. I spoke to one of the vendors one time about it. They themselves, cannot believe the lack of dignity that some people possess.

I actually left there because of it. What I see on this board is nothing in comparison to the other place. This is quite tolerable. I laugh to myself, call the coolie kissers a ninny, and just move along.

This horse has been beaten, been through the glue factory, and sealed my letters.

 

[immtbiker]

Speaking of glue, it says on the Diablo site that none of the parts are serviceable or "modifiable" (including the battery), hence the glue. That's something that needs to be a serious consideration before pulling the trigger on this amp (being the Head-Fiers that we are).

...and oicdn, why do you keep saying "meh"

? It's like saying "man" at the end of every sentence, or "you know what I'm saying?"

Dude...

 

[OverlordXenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, then why don't you back that up with telling us why you agree.

I can say why I agree with that statement. They are trying to sell us something, they have an ulterior motive.

If everyone just blindly trusted salesmen and corporations and manufacturers, if we didn't have organizations like Consumer Reports, everything would be much more overpriced, dangerous, and of a lower quality, because, of course, the maker/seller knows all and is not to be questioned. Why not treat the government the same? Who needs that pesky constitution or bill of rights, the government will never lie to us! There is no such thing as corruption! Everyone is in it for everyone but themselves!

Edit: This is why fanboyism is terrible.

 

[Barry]

You are making an assumption about consumer reports that I would never make. They have axes to grind as well. And just because they bill themselves as a non profit organization that does not mean that they don't want to make money. Make no mistake about it - they are a business, just with a different legal basis.

They make their money by proporting that less expensive items are as good as more expensive items. They rarely say otherwise, even when those familiar with a product line know differently. Think about it, if they did not assert that less expensive is just as good, what would they sell? Why would anybody "need" them? Take a look at their stereo reviews, for example.

All of this to say that I think that each of us should draw our own conclusions and take most communications about products from others with an understanding that their incentives and perspectives may be different from yours. Not better, not worse, not honest, not dishonest, but different. And yours is the one that matters. As for myself, if I can't experience something myself, I do find reviews, statements of others, etc. helpful - but I never take them as the "last word", just a place to start.

But, on the other hand, you can always take my suggestions and observations as being absolutely right......(ahem)

 

[OverlordXenu]

I'm just using CR as an example. If we just believed what makers said, they wouldn't exist. No one would look for a good deal, they'd just head to Best Buy and listen to a random sales clerk.

 

[immtbiker]

I stopped going to stores like Best Buy and Circuit City because everytime I asked them a question, I ended up teaching them about audio.

It has turned out that these store's sales associates are jacks of all the departments and masters of none. As grandpa said, "Not like the old days".

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can say why I agree with that statement. They are trying to sell us something, they have an ulterior motive. If everyone just blindly trusted salesmen and corporations and manufacturers, if we didn't have organizations like Consumer Reports, everything would be much more overpriced, dangerous, and of a lower quality, because, of course, the maker/seller knows all and is not to be questioned. Why not treat the government the same? Who needs that pesky constitution or bill of rights, the government will never lie to us! There is no such thing as corruption! Everyone is in it for everyone but themselves! Edit: This is why fanboyism is terrible.

I disagree with your comment up to a point. I don't think being a fanboy or fangirl, as the case sometimes may be, is a bad thing at all, nor do I see it running rampant all over this forum in a destructive way. I think this goes back to Duggeh's post on the first page, which talks about enthusiasm. Since this is one of very few places that we can share about what we love, why not? It's also exciting that many manufacturers hang out at meets, post in the forums and answer questions personally, either here, in email, and/or on the phone. I love my SinglePower amp. I'm going to talk about it. If Mikhail comes to a meet, or stops in here for a post or two, I'm going to tell him I love it. Is that ass-kissing? I'm a Sennheiser fangirl. I'm going to post about it, recommend certain headphones, talk about what amps work and don't, etc. I can pretty much point to any number of head-fiers and tell you want "team(s)" they're on. There was even an old thread that asked members to identify the biggest fanboy of certain headphones. It was pretty funny and dead on. Most of this is done in affection and good humor. Nothing wrong with it.

Where I do agree with you is if fanboyism becomes destructive. It's not any different than people posting about stuff they've never heard. When people recommend their favorite headphone, amp, source non-stop, when it is not even connected to the ops needs or desires, it's destructive posting (except for Fitz

). When fanboys trash other MOT's products, which they may never have heard, that's messed up (if they've heard it and have an informed opinion, that's different) When fanboys insult other members based solely on tastes, or flame at valid criticisms toward their favorite product or manufacturer...well, you know the deal. Not good.

This has all been covered before in a few different threads. I still think there's not too much ass-kissing going on, but more enthusiasm and fun with liking what we like, and liking to share about it.

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Stating that the hd650 has more bass than a hd600 if you haven't heard it but read it so often is fine with me but you do have to mention you're copying other people and nothing talking about your own experience. That's vital for keeping posts and threads as reliable as possible.

Not enough posts in this long thread have pointed this out: the key thing is to situate where you're coming from, more so the more you're venturing to claim. For instance, we're all capable of recommending a few cheapo options for a noob without necessarily having bothered to own an example of each of them; no harm done as long as it's clear you're mentioning usual suspects or sharing common knowledge. Once you start really discussing the attributes of a particular component, you definitely have to come right out with whether you own it, spent time with it, tested it briefly, or are referring to reviews. As long as people do this, I have no problem with comments that extend beyond listening experience: a lot of what happens on this forum is the boiling down of shared information, and we can all take part in that. Just try to remember to reference your sources.

On the issue of ass-kissing the MsoT (I like putting the plural 's' after the M and not the T), the times when I've seen it turn ugly is when a new product, usually an amp or dac, is about to be released. Someone makes a critical comment about the specs/parts list/preproduction photos, and the fanboys respond viciously. I've seen supremuses banned over the kind of arguments that ensue in such cases. In these threads, you hear the usual cries against trashing an unheard item, but not so often the counter that the fans are building up free commercial buzz for something they haven't heard either. It seems to me that bloodshed is usually avoidable if everyone is careful about what they're praising, and on what grounds they're offering criticism. It's too easy to overstate things or to accidentally tee someone off on a text-based forum, which then can spiral out of control-- just ask oicdn!

But as long as we're mentioning the off-topic ass-kissery, may I also complain about people recommending things that show they A. haven't read the thread, and B. barely even skimmed the OP's question? Irrelevant recommendations really nerve me out, and they're worst where they can do the most damage, in newbie advice-seeking threads. When I see this, I usually try to take the time to tell the OP (and the hundred casual viewers) why three of the five recommendations posted in their thread so far would be ridiculous choices given their circumstances.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif Speaking of glue, it says on the Diablo site that none of the parts are serviceable or "modifiable" (including the battery), hence the glue. That's something that needs to be a serious consideration before pulling the trigger on this amp (being the Head-Fiers that we are). ...and oicdn, why do you keep saying "meh" ? It's like saying "man" at the end of every sentence, or "you know what I'm saying?" Dude...

There are plenty of reasons to not buy the Diablo without considering it will be an expensive paperweight sooner than other portables.

Moh...

 

[jp11801]

ok where to start,
Fanboys, there should be ample distinction between fanboys and members that post enthusiastic comments regarding an amp. They like the manufacture due to the fact that they make quality gear, they recognize that other gear has merit and recommend other gear when they feel what they like is not appropriate to the members need or requested sonic need. This tag is most often creates an emotional response that hurts the discussion. Nothing wrong with liking a piece of gear we all just need to be open to other gear as well.

Haters, this is one of the most ridiculous tags I have seen used here. It's audio gear for crying out loud. Just because someone thinks a particular line of gear is not as good as another does not make them a hater. There is often good cause for liking a line of gear over another, use of opamps in expensive gear when a discrete circuit could have been implemented and still provide a 3x parts cost for example. Just because someone points out a flaw in a piece of gear does not mean they sacrifice goats and virgins to see that MOT meet an untimely demise. This phrase is often used by people who do not have a logic based arguement so they fall back on the tried and true emotion based arguement.

oh and Nate I can't keep up with your topic shifting discussion any more. This only became about you when you decided to take it that way both here and other places. You seem like an good guy maybe just drop the 'meh' and consider that you are posting on an internet forum and when you post a straight comment people can't tell that you are playing around. Personally I think this is a convienent way to dissassociate yourself from previousl comment made but 'meh' who knows.

To get back on what I think the topic may have been yes it is a good thing to make your comments regarding a product after you have heard it. I do think there is a place for relative discussions regarding design and commenting on the good and bad aspects. I am not a techical person by nature but I learn a lot from these discssions and it opens me up to the possibilities of gear.
We all need to thicken up our skin when others make comments. Geeze if someone posts a negative about an amp because it uses mediocre parts or the design is pedestrian and they could have taken a more cutting edge approach, what's the big deal. If we as consumers do not demand more from amp and headphone makers we will be served the Same Old S*** we are getting today for the most part face it most of the large HP makers have dumbed down their line and amp makers typically play it safe or offer what I consider to be gimmicks. If someone does not like my amp for objective or subjective reasons well so be it, it's a comment on the amp not you or I, get over it. As to the comment that it hurts the MOT financially, well if a componenet can be so easily picked at without a reasonable comment to counterbalance then it serves the community to hear these things. No one is saying your kid is ugly just your amp

I gues

 

[vcoheda]

if you don't think there are haters (or mindless followers), you are fooling yourself. when someone tells me with a straight face that a cmoy will sound better than an amp costing a few thousand dollars, i know that they have completely lost touch with reality -- are drunk on the kool-aid.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif if you don't think there are haters (or mindless followers), you are fooling yourself. when someone tells me with a straight face that a cmoy will sound better than an amp costing a few thousand dollars, i know that they have completely lost touch with reality -- are drunk on the kool-aid.

Money doesn't mean anything, unless you just want to be an elitist and parade around how much you spent.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif if you don't think there are haters (or mindless followers), you are fooling yourself. when someone tells me with a straight face that a cmoy will sound better than an amp costing a few thousand dollars, i know that they have completely lost touch with reality -- are drunk on the kool-aid.

On several occaisions folks have blind tested kit which is vastly different in price - in many cases the lower priced kit is not audibly distinguishable from the esoteric kit. For instance a $230 Pioneer receiver vs $12,000 worth of boutique monoblock amps (Masters and Clark, Do All Amplifiers Sound the Same), or the Spanish chaps who tested the Oracle CD player against a $200 DVD player. You cant assume that because something is expensive it will always sound different from something cheaper. Cost is cost, Fi is Fi.